Depch

Indeed, these are things that I view as game evolution. It is very rare to have evolution in the games defensive aspect after years though, it's usually just honing up offensive tricks. As a user of CB I think it makes the game better and allows for a more deeper pool of players to be used positively. I have only positive emotions to go along that, if I felt it was cutting down on my arsenal overall I might be emotionally struggling with it and come up with conclusions against it.

I think what Plabax is trying to say that CB is a move that allows "less skilled" players to win with more efficiency what it used to be. That a team matchup becomes more important, taking away from what he perceives as true sense of skill (at least deke/skating from what I can understand). I think team matchup was not nonexistant before either and superstars were unstoppable if they fell to A+. I also think there is skill to CB in vision and anticipation, less in timing but it exists. I am just thinking that weight received a boost as an attribute. I think of it just the way that defensive aspect of the game took an upgrade and it was always there, we didn't know about it. When heavyweights were defensive liabilities before and their skill would get overlooked, this is no more the case. Perhaps some only look for the CB ability, but I look at the complete package with weight properly adjusted now. From NHL2006 if I recall right there was a goal that you could do from the blueline boards with close to 50% efficiency. That is the kind of cheese we used to disallow in leagues, there are more examples of such silly goals that were "banned" that fooled the goalie always and you could not defend it as you could do it from very far. I do not see CB existing on such a level, quite far from it.

CB is a defensive aspect of the game, it exists there most of the time when you can only use pass shot for example only from certain situations. CB allows one to play oldschool classic physics but also wbfixed physics. It was always there but we didn't just know about. Classic has now both worlds existing, where as wbfix does not have light players checking heavier ones. This all is the new default so it is part of the live tournament official cartridges as well. Because of that reason I do not see any reason to astray away from what the official tournaments are going to be. It also makes the game closer to SNES physics if you just learn and use the CB. I do not think it is cheap, that is subjective. Does it take away some of the skill away from possible offensive plays with the way it eases up defensive plays, well probably. It forces players to adapt to it, I think we are still in an adaptation phase especially regarding drafts to it. Being able to play shifty and avoid the checks by anticipation becomes of importance, agility is more important, stickhandling loses out. I think that rebounds and 5 hole abuse are cheaper as the goalie can fall for the rebound shot everytime, be it Roy or be it Belfour. Puck control or sticks don't have any play in that. 5 Hole shots were horrible in PC version, you could do them from even center ice and you couldn't play manual goalie, think about that. I only 5 hole passes against a player that also uses them, shout out to especially JV! That is a gentlemans rule built to my backbone. Rebound mode is if I can put myself to a win mode and have the will to try to go for the win "ugly".

This probably is true for guys closer up. That is a costly 1500$ to throw out just for hanging out and not being able to play properly in the main event. Not trying to sound bitter, just is what it is. It is a pity for me because I have always thought that my baiting game translates better to low latency especially on D. I would want to see that tested and be proven wrong. I will try the transformation to gamepad in the springtime to see how it takes a a roll. I'm on tight budget now, so it will probable be in march. Right thumb can be mastered fast I would recon, but the left thumb will take loads and loads of work to get to a similar level for adjusting your position constantly with micromovements. For Swos playing in general in the long run was too much for his current situation in life and he was missing out on classic win for the triple wins in all major online leagues of the time (Blitz, GDL & Classic) so gave up on gamepad as it was going to take too much time and switched to keyboard for the remainder of the Classic 2015-spring to get that triplet. That was also a Classic where me and AJ played live at my place the playoff series Mtl-Pit. Familiar setup for me, a better team matchup for me and me keyboard and AJ as gamepad (don't know how much that had an effect anymore), me tired, AJ jetlagged? Things in favour of me was a result of a tight 4-3 win for me. There was no better documentation on this as I was in a pretty dark place at the time and didn't want to do that and AJ respected that, so hats off for him (Later that year I would crash, quit my job, took a gamble on everything etc.). We were also on a pretty tight schedule to make this happen. There was just something extra on playing live, the intensity made it much more fun and that is how gaming should be like, it reminded me of the mid 90's playing my friend 4-7 days a week a couple hours each day the NHL games always hot seat.

Not to the level of your main controller that you're used to. To a semi-competitive level sure, but to bring out your best, I doubt it hard. It will also take some time to gather up that stuff so I would guess it would be closer to a 6 month period that includes summer time when it's propably harder to grab up exis unless others are going hard for the tournament as well. Talked with Swos about this just a while ago he also is commited to family stuff etc. atm. so will be too distracted to play to win atm. The "world", "dreamworld", "virtual world", "mind" is a funny place though, so you never know. Nothing is impossible. [edit] Regarding the controller I think it will be relatively easy to get the A,B,C buttons mastered to a similar level, already figured how I would hold the controller to get it done easy, I have some experience from xbox360 gamepads so not totally new to them. But it will be hard to master the movement to a similar level, the precision will be lacking to the micromovements of adjusting your positioning for D/pass shots etc. That will be the hardest thing and requires tons of repetition for the thumb to master I would presume.

Sat 23 30.9.2017, Vegas, $10k pool - Gens / SNES I'm just watching it, felt akward for me first, not knowing this twin galaxies show, but turns out to a nice show after Mikey started talking. It would be tempting to attend that, but overseas there is little chance and I would also have to make an adaptation from keyboard to gamepad, which is over 20 years of controls from the backbone to undo for me, so that might be too much of a task propably. But never say never, maybe I'll find a way. At starters I just need a guided package for the gamepads as a link and I'll just have to pay it. Rest is just money for the possible trip and that's a variable that is, well, up to chances.

If we think of the live tournaments that are to me to be the standards for playing online as well. What could be done to CB? You just can't have rules in live tournaments that you cannot do this style and you have to play with gentlemans rules with these. It would look kinda stupid for new faces who might be curious of those in retro tournaments etc. at least for me that is the case. It is an added feature now that always did exist and it does help a lot in defending. It is more effective than any offensive trick as offensive is always more situational, that is given. It has rendered stickhandling less important but also given more depth to the player pools. It is a double edged sword. You cannot play vs a great CB checker head on and you have to force mistakes, it requires more patience and more baiting, thus propably a great agile skater what Plabax was hinting about. If you also want to draft wise, you don't hand the 5 agility heavy weights to the CB checkers but draft them to yourself. The pool is deep for 4 agility heavy weights in defence, so that's harder to cut people off from especially if they priorize defence early. I think here we are with CB and it's become part of the Classic game. It has brought some new meta to the game and it has changed some of the drafting as well. Players still have not adapted to it completely and I think this is an adjustion period still going on. Players who have become good with it are ones who can take an advantage to playing the game with it. Just as players who can do pass shots situationally have over those who don't. We all have our own strenghts that we can be honing on. AJ is a competitor and can adapt to an opponent with multiple styles FPB is great using an agile superstar, oldschool abuser Raph is a CB monster with great pass shots Seth CB + onetimers + can raise his intensity level when it matters Plab is great D & best G with deceptive skating for any kind of offensive, also can raise his intensity high Ice good G and delivers with speed, especially pass shots Swos studies his opponents and is a very disciplined player with great mental approach especially strong with speed. You could also mention that Zep is playing a very disciplined patient style outside from the contenders online.

This would have to be a fast paced compact league type. I don't think I want to commit to 2 main leagues at the same time that both take a couple of months to complete.

I'm up for the challenge. I actually think Ottawa is the worst of the bunch. I have trouble building a nice lineup with Ottawa. I also dislike Tampa Bay even though they got Bradley, their defence is just not good at all. Anaheim at least has some serviceable guys in Yake, Semenov, Kasatonov and I enjoy playing them. Florida also has at least G.Murphy & Beezer to build some back end. San Jose is decent in speed and Kisio is can surprise as well.

Pit,Stl,Wsh,Njd,Nyi are still quite ok teams. Pit has Lemieux and wicked D + great AI goalie behind. Variables in Jagr, Mullen, Straka, Francis, Stevens etc. Stl is very good on offence Emerson-Hull-Bassen is what I used, buggers around Hull in Classic. Brown & Butcher stay down low well and Joseph is good. Wsh is strange, it has great combination of players in Bondra, Kristich etc. But is hard to come by with a good chemistry. Their D is very good and it can be a wicked CB-team. Njd has one of the best chemistries from all of Classic, there's just something extra there that makes it very much fun to play with. Zelepukin, Semak and shooter in Richer, Stevens & Fetisov I love at D. Terreri great G for manual. Nyi offence is very good, Hogue-Turgeon-Thomas. Lacks in defence and goalie. This can perform very well. I used to play quite some with Nyi & Njd in Finnish classic matchups. Used STL in one of the adjusted drafts. The teams behind these are with severe handicaps and it would be interesting.

There have been two classic leagues that have had adjusted drafting. But people wanted to go back to full random. I like playing with handicap, I am used to playing without superstars. I am propably on the minority. http://nhl94online.com/html/standings.php?lg=23 http://nhl94online.com/html/standings.php?lg=25

You are playing against a team that has an offence of Tikkanen-Lemieux-Broten. Tikkanen has a checking resistance of 9, Lemieux has a checking resistance of 10 and Broten has a checking resistance of 4. As you figured out, the checking resistance = weight. Additionally Lemieux also has 6 stickhandling, so he is immune to b-checks most of the time. If you do not have anyone who has a checking ability over 10, you are in deep trouble. Your options of getting Lemieux down then is trying to b-check him multiple times and hope he falls or tie him up and hope he loses the puck. Tikkanen & Broten you can just b-check even with a low weight team. Same applies to Neely, Lindros etc. You're gonna have hard time using c-check on Lindros, but you can b-check him with anyone. High weight stickhandlers are boss and pain to play against if you don't have heavy defence. These are Lemieux, Jagr, Messier, Hull and Coffey & Bourque from D. They raise their value more than GDL drafts as do 10+ D checkers. Majority of the skilled guys on offence are 7 weight and below, some stand at 9 and a lot less 10 and over. Think of the other teams and what your opponents have. If you think the pain to play against guys are on weaker players you can pick lower weight defence with checking ability 7+, gives a lot more options. Shiftyness on offence is still important, you cannot just think of it from a defensive aspect or it will cost you some offence against better players. But this is everyones own decision. The excel file Coach provided is of great help and checking ability can be found also there.

I think it was only static how it showed in line changes, but the hot / cold existed in the game. We voted for this in GDL.You had the option to show true values, default mixed values or mask them all as static in line changes / team roster.

What will be done with static? I think it has been great on plablegs and the game has been faster as well as cold seems to occur more often than hot. Works out for goalies as well.

WBfix is just classic with a reverse checking. It takes -2 weight player to manual check a player, so with wbfix it's +2 weight that is taken to do the check. Blitz also has a checking attribute equation taken in to consideration that gives amplification to the true checking ability. Let's say that Chelios with 7 weight would check players of 5 weight and less with wbfix, with checking attribute 6 taken in to consideration, his checking ability goes up to 8.6. CBfix to wbfix means that Roenick and guys can't use CB to take down heavier guys like Bourque. The heavy stickhandlers (5+) become very strong players. Look at the draft links and drafted players. Check the "Chk Ability" how heavy players the players are able to check. 10+ will basically give you protection from all skilled forwards and against the few rest you can use b-check (Lindros, Andreychuk, Otto etc). Even 7-9+ is sufficient if the main threats Hull, Coffey, Messier, Jagr, Lemieux, Bourque (resistant to b-check and high checking resistance in 9+) fall to B level guys (at least this is what I think, if any falls to an A guy, then I want to have checking ability of 9+ or 10+ to take them down). This is what I summarize from the experience I had with Blitz for 3 seasons. Blitz also was a keeper, so there was a possibility hold on to players don't get confused with it, the value is still around right in the following draft links. Blitz 11: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0lPq1Un8oJW64n_f7lCHyxsbmtHx1fr966p1wlVCJE/pubhtml# Blitz 10: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ry1KjqZQI_abJvg5o74qydTJOHalXKY7KRNLbI5qvOo/pubhtml# Blitz 9: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/16261-blitz-09-draft-round-1-première-ronde/

I do not like the first pairing. I was always partially saved from being aware of the weight bug. I always knew that Ronning, Gilmour, Roenick etc. were great checkers, but never put much thought to it really. In Finnish leagues we moved to modified modern rosters fairly soon, from 2002 I think -> and I used Bertuzzi 220lbs and Jovanovski 212-220 & Ohlund 220lbs on D as I always played with Vancouver, but I didn't use C-check much then, just B-checks. As another blast from the past I did always whine to Swos though who had a low weight team with Buffalo in Briere, Afinogenov, Satan etc. (He dominated the modern leagues, no grudge.. anymore! I think my only successes came from classic & fantasies). It's possible Swos brought wbfix to more modern rosters as I recall I was aware of it when I came to play here in NA after years of absence from leagues. But as I was using B-check as my weapon of choice for defence in Finnish leagues I didn't think much of the defensive aspect the wbfix provided to C-checks. What you are basically just explaining is that since you do not use CB you struggle with more things than players who do. You have more things to take in to consideration. Same is people for who do not pass shot or rebound, they cannot be as effective in goal scoring, but someone like Seth can plays outside of that. CB is not directly comparable as it is more effective as it is a defensive aspect to the game where as offensive tricks are situational. But it's in the classic part of the game as are many of the offensive tricks. Classic game is now closer to Blitz physics than it ever was for CB players, for non CB players it's not. It's adapt or don't, I cannot see how anyone wants to make the superstars invulnerable again in classic physics. I also hope you do not take any of this personally as that is not the case, I am just trying to make sense here that what you suggest as a tradeoff only exists because of your decisions. I also know that you want to have the last word on this case but there is nothing more I can say on this so this will be the last part from me commenting on this. [Edit] I must add that being able to use CB and make the decision to use it is very important. It allows you to play the old era classic game and take Blitz physics to use too without the added checking value and resistance. It's not unfair, that is subjective, it exists. From Plablegs my team as an example - Gilmour on C as 4 wgh bugger checks everyone 6+ weight and Fetisov with CB anyone below 9- weight, so no player is safe from this combination. Stickhandling is rendered less important. CB will be available in all live Gens tournaments so it also would be kinda silly to not use it online for classic.

This I still do wonder. Clearly as important as weight has become in classic and how it is even more important in Blitz, it was overvalued. I'm guessing weight will be overvalued by B players for forwards in Blitz physics due to the checking aspect and protection from it. Leaving open more skilled players on lower weight end. The exception of increased value on someone like Hull, Messier and heavier stickhandlers. B players should remember, that a heavy player without stick 5 is just as likely to go down as before vs b-checkers, it will only be a protection against low weight guys and players on the same tier who don't use b-checks and that is no way to improve your game, take these in to account when drafting. Looking at a short term gain for a better chance in b league might not help your overall game. It will also be away from A guys anyone getting such gems. I remember this was a draft where I was talking that I would draft Lemieux and you said I won't be getting him, that you will take him instead. You had traded for 2 high draft picks (first round). I think this was not only because of CB, it was also that people were not as high on stickhandling as an attribute as you and I were in classic. If anything I also think CB has brought in inflation on importance of stickhandling. So Lemieux & Gretzky were top 15 picks and Coffey was definately undervalued. I went on to pick Coffey early next draft just so you couldn't use him in the second round. I wasn't good at CB yet and couldn't use him well, always found him going astray from my team game, but that is not the case anymore. That was also the GDL that brought in the knowledge of CB afterwards and started to change the adaptation towards heavier players. It was this draft/GDL that started the change afterwards. You brought CB to knowledge after winning the GDL. It was you who changed the game. I think looking at ADP after this draft would be good in general perhaps still skipping the next one as it was just shaping up. Things still propably are adapting and taking a change, I can see Tikkanen going earlier and earlier, perhaps Mess as well. Would be interesting to compare things to Blitz physics draft (or the upcoming) from the past few classic physics drafts. Because there is no tradeoff, just a different way people are seeing weight as an attribute. There are more skilled forwards in the lower weight players, there are more skilled defencemen on the heavier end. Weight is an attribute that matters more to guys who CB, passing is an attribute that might matters more to players who do pass shots. The tradeoff you explain is subjective. It exists for you through your decisions how you play and how you perceive the game and approach it, it forces you to consider such things. But in reality, there is no tradeoff. I agree this propably looked off track and could've been moved to the other thread on truth about pass shots & CB that aqua correctly answered to. I also must emphasize that there is nothing personal involved from my part in these discussions. Hopefully it brought some aspects of how things can be looked at and bring some insights to some people through that. I remember it as well and think those are after whistle checks - plabber stated that at one point. As stated I have already found that visiting team checks increase the crowd volume by +1db. Home team I found that no correlation, but b-checks are +1db for both if I recall it right. When I tend to miss shots from open nets as a visiting team I have studied that the crowd volume tends to be on the higher end of the spectrum 90+. In the start of periods it's at 65db. Not counting the after whistle checks should be a thing for any league from now on just as a security if there was a correlation. Even better would be a study on crowd effects for the game and maybe freeze it at 65db for tests. I have quit doing after whistle checks due to this most of the time.

But this is not the case. People would not always pass up skill on body checking. Me playing with Otto for example in Plablegs has more to do with his AI (def awa & chk) and especially on offence playing close to the net for onetimers, I don't get to do many CB with him in a game. I traded Tikkanen for example to Lebeau, but I don't get the same chemistry with Lebeau as I did with Tikk or Otto on LW. There is no tradeoff existing as a true consept, that's all in the head as is should it exist or not. I view things purely as attributes and weight got a boost in Classic via CB. It's a physics where light players can be beasts with checking and heavy players as well, whether or not players are skilled does not play any significance. Majority of the skilled D-men are in the heavier end of the weight spectrum and if one thinks it's unfair, then it's in one's head only. Weight is still stronger currency in Blitz physics than it is in Classic because checking doesn't work both ways (for light as well in Classic). Simplified in the end it is the decision to play the game to your strenghts or just the way you like it and draft the guys with such attributes to support it. CB was always there, it just wasn't known and attributes are what they are, game and how we perceive things evolve and meta changes. To cancel out CB is to move to play to Blitz physics where the heavy players are stronger overall. Here instead of CB, it's just C for everyone and light players are not good at C. I still like the complexity and variance CB brought to Classic, but CB has brought me closer to Blitz physics that I at first was akward with.

I don't think it of it as a tradeoff. Sure there are more things to take in to consderation for your need / style in Blitz physics. As for these examples I don't like Neely myself at all, so Stevie Y would be an easy answer and Laffy over Carson if I didn't already have a good player for zone entrance. Carson possibly if I needed a shooter. In a way CB has closed the gap more with classic and Blitz physics separation. Now heavy players are usable in both. In classic as an addition you could view that the light players are just better checkers than in Blitz and for that in Blitz the heavy players gain even more value compared to star players in Blitz.

There are tools that make it fast and simple. We usually got auctions done within 2-3 days. Kiba had created an online tool for NHL95 PC manager leagues that was simple to use for anyone. Jer is aware of this, I don't see it that it could be that hard to make the transition if we just asked / he allowed it. It's great. It usually takes around 4-6 rounds to finish and taking your bids can be done easily in 30min per round and everyone can do them at the same time. It propably would take some time and not be ready for the upcoming league though unless it's only about changing the excel data sheet.

Sure, anything goes especially in the absence of Classic for Gens this upcoming spring & GDL on some break.

What CB essentially brings in is a new look on weight as an attribute. Low weight allows good checking ability and better mobility. High weight allows great checking with the cost of agility (I think weight also affects as a bonus to shotpower, but it's hard to measure, I've just always "felt" that). What the other attributes are have nothing to do with the feature itself. Whatever thought balance or imbalance is just a viewpoint. CB is essentially about timing, you could make a stupid example that a player that is really horrible at onetimers and great at pass shots says that there is an imbalance on good shooters (shotpower 4+ that allows them from farther) that there is no negative tradeoff to it. So he decides to stick to only pass shots instead. It's a stupid example, but what this essentially is a bout. What I mean is that I have never even had the concept of thinking of there having to have to be a tradeoff with some attributes.

It's harder to play offence now when CB has been integrated to top level play for some, especially Raph is good using it with fatty skilled wingers. It is true that it's harder to play against classic physics now than it was a couple of years ago. However not too many players seem to be able to do CB that effectively, it doesn't automatically make anyone better. It's also a skill of timing like onetimers etc. It's not too hard when you grasp it, I had some problems with the timing as well, I was changing off too fast (can't do it too slow either), but you don't have do it within 0,2sec on open ice hits. For the latter - Bure, Gretzky, Roenick, Ciccarelli etc. all have 5+ stickhandling, they dodge around playing them with the stick (b-check). They also have no natural opponent to casual checks on open ice. After playing with CB that just feels too stupid now, for classic physics I don't think there is going back there anymore. But CBfix for wbfixed leagues just makes sense like smozoma said. It's most likely how the game was "intended", like SNES is. It's a decision to use pass shots or not, same goes with CB. You try to play to your strenghts.

In classic type I must disagree completely, the "fatties" would lose a lot of usability again. I propably would not even play anymore in cb removed classic physics leagues. I agree completely with this in wbfixed roms though.

I think that would encourage the playstyle of many users to a way more passive style. It would encourage more backskating, more holding on to the puck and more passive play overall. All games would have to be recorded to have video records of them. At least I think I would become even more passive in defence, just a more calculative game overall. It could hone the playstyles to a less fun way and that's propably not what the game needs at the moment. And my message was not meant as a banter towards your style, you're doing quite well what is effective and I would see that come more of the standard. If such a league was online, then I would be in for sure. All it took was an entrance fee and proper distribution or a charitable guy(s) with good income to throw in something to the pot twice a year. I think the finns did that at some point, but I wasn't playing at that time. Money leagues would have to take some legal issues to be in consider there in the US, maybe some states would allow it. Also maybe money leagues would always be of interest to new players instead of the good community way. People always take interest to such things, hell, some are lining up for free buckets here in Finland at times. Bucket league. + I think teams should be standardized somehow also. Like what we had in the fantasy cup two years ago, uh, time flies (I will throw the link in below, it was quite fun actually, well done by Donnybrook). You have a specific amounts of points you can distribute to players as your liking in the team. Everyone has the same attribute points pool to share, just do it how you please. Or in Finland we had teams with same players, we just named them as we liked and had the jersey colours of our own choosing in fantasy. It allowed users to play with the kind of lineups they wanted, fast, shooters, mixed etc. http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/16422-nhl-94-dream-team-tourney/ Looking at the rosters I used offensive awareness 4 for one forward and the rest had 3,2,1,1,0. Offensive awareness has very little to play in the game. Goalies were maxed out by default, but as a test for my goalie and to help with my over reaction with the goalie at the time I used speed 1 and 0/0 awarenesses, he had no problems at all and was a top performer. I think the 35 attribute points might have been a bit too much per player though as you generally were able to almost max out all top attributes. Has there ever been a fantasy league?