angryjay93

Welcome to Building lines with AJ!

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Preface

Welcome to building lines with AJ, I'd like to first thank you all for coming to this part of the forum and reading my features on each team, I hope they can provide some useful suggestions and spark some healthy debate so that vets and rookies alike can learn more about the game.

For those who don't know me, I came onto the NHL 94 scene in October 2006 and I started playing in every league I could find. Before my retirement in June 2009, I had played in upwards of two dozen leagues, which has allowed me the chance to use and see most of the players in the game in extended action. Combine my league play with hundreds of online exhibitions and thousands of games against the CPU over the last 16 years, I'd like to think I have a fairly decent handle on every team in the game when it comes to building a successful line.

With that said though, these lines aren't built purely based on my opinions. They were also constructed with consideration of discussion with other members of the community and their preferences of what they want in a player, statistical evidence in league play such as the Genesis Draft League, and scouting of you tube videos. By doing this I will likely never suggest one "ultimate" line for a team, it is much more likely that I will suggest 2 or more combinations that can be utilized depending on user strengths and preferences and the match up at hand. I leave it purely at the readers' discretion which line to use, if they are comfortable with any of them.

I'll do my best to post a team every week; they will be presented in random order. Keep in mind though that these articles will be based on the GENS classic rom with no weight bug fix. The weight bug fix rom is a rather new addition to the community thanks to Smozoma. Due to the newness of the rom, I don't have the extensive research available to build lines, but I will provide a snippet on the Blitz rom if I find it appropriate.

Thank you again for reading my articles, I hope you all enjoy them and feel inclined to leave comments when I have left something out or to provide a differing opinion.

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The weight bug fix rom is a rather new addition to the community thanks in large part to Smozoma.

I demand full credit :P

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Sorry if I'm stupid and just don't get it, but how have you formed these ratings? Especially the weight. In my game the weight is shown in pounds. And also the shot,skating etc. goes from 0-100. How have you changed these here? just changed the rating to scale from 1 to 5 or?

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Sorry if I'm stupid and just don't get it, but how have you formed these ratings? Especially the weight. In my game the weight is shown in pounds. And also the shot,skating etc. goes from 0-100. How have you changed these here? just changed the rating to scale from 1 to 5 or?

The game actually uses just 0-6 internally and shows a random value in a range (that's why players' ratings are slightly different each game).

0=25-29

1=29-38

2=38-47

3=47-62

4=63-80

5=80-98

6=99

For weight, the formula is

140+8*wgt lbs

so if a guy weighs "7", his weight is 196lbs

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The game actually uses just 0-6 internally and shows a random value in a range (that's why players' ratings are slightly different each game).

0=25-29

1=29-38

2=38-47

3=47-62

4=63-80

5=80-98

6=99

Whoa, I never realized that's how it works. Is it the same for SNES?

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Whoa, I never realized that's how it works. Is it the same for SNES?

Yes.

And I believe the ratings you see in the game depend on the hot and cold streaks.

And I think it makes a bit of a difference...Because sometimes My guys are slower other times they skate faster.

But at the end of the day...its 0-6 rating system.

Edit - Oh, and one difference in Gens the max is 99 in SNES its 100. For whatever reason.

Edited by shaftman

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And I believe the ratings you see in the game depend on the hot and cold streaks.

And I think it makes a bit of a difference...Because sometimes My guys are slower other times they skate faster.

In Geneses at least, the individual players are hot/cold at individual stats, like speed and checking across all their stats. I've seen this in the code, so it's real. It has a bug, though.

The way hot/cold for a particular attribute works is:

Say a guy has a "4" rating in speed. The game then takes that number and multiplies it by 5, so it's 20. Then, it adds a random number from -2 to +3 (i think.. something close to that). So the guy's underlying speed will be somewhere between 18-23. So if it added a positive number, he's faster than usual.. EDIT: all his attributes will have the same random number applied.

The funny/weird/stupid thing is, the ratings you see in the Edit Lines or Team Rosters do NOT accurately reflect the underlying hot/coldness of a player. So even though the range for a "4" speed is 63-80 in Edit Lines (and 18-23 in the code), if your guy is actually 23 (fast) that game, the Edit Lines screen could say anything.. there is no relation. It might say he's 63, or 70, or 80..

Lesson: never trust the Edit Lines ratings when comparing players with equal "base" (0-6) stats, because it won't tell you who is actually better that game.

I haven't checked to see if players declared HOT or COLD by Ron Barr are actually hot/cold, but I suspect they aren't. EDIT: Ron Barr is full of Schmidt

Edited by smozoma
I was incorrect about them having different bonuses on different stats. each player is either hot or cold on all their stats.

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In Geneses at least, the players are hot/cold at individual stats, like speed and checking. I've seen this in the code, so it's real. It has a bug, though.

The way hot/cold for a particular attribute works is:

Say a guy has a "4" rating in speed. The game then takes that number and multiplies it by 5, so it's 20. Then, it adds a random number from -2 to +3 (i think.. something close to that). So the guy's underlying speed will be somewhere between 18-23. So if it added a positive number, he's faster than usual..

The funny/weird/stupid thing is, the ratings you see in the Edit Lines or Team Rosters do NOT accurately reflect the underlying hot/coldness of a player. So even though the range for a "4" speed is 63-80 in Edit Lines (and 18-23 in the code), if your guy is actually 23 (fast) that game, the Edit Lines screen could say anything.. there is no relation. It might say he's 63, or 70, or 80..

Lesson: never trust the Edit Lines ratings when comparing players with equal "base" (0-6) stats, because it won't tell you who is actually better that game.

I haven't checked to see if players declared HOT or COLD by Ron Barr are actually hot/cold, but I suspect they aren't.

Wow. I'm devastated. Someone should check out the SNES to see if its the same.

this is retarded lol.

These things make a huge difference when your trying to work out a good line combo in dieing minutes of the game.

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And there are 3 guys who go hot and 3 who go cold in the SNES version. That includes those on the bench or on one of the 3 lines.

Geez, if someone is Hot, it should be all stats, not just one.

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And there are 3 guys who go hot and 3 who go cold in the SNES version. That includes those on the bench or on one of the 3 lines.

Geez, if someone is Hot, it should be all stats, not just one.

it's worse -- he may actually be cold, despite being called hot!

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AJ you've made some great flash cards for the 94 Trapper Keeper strategy guide, but I'm curious what do you think about offhandedness? Putting a righty on the LW and versa visea.

I think Finnish players do this but I'm not sure if this is cause they drive on the other side of the road.. I've always done it because I feel that it gives players a better angle in tight on one timers and rebound dunks. I've often done it to the exclusion of line synergy (with line changes enabled).

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Just something I'd like to share, and Smozoma pretty much explained it in his post:

It's totally true that a player considered "cold" could actually have slightly higher stats then their base. What's funny is, between the guys I play with we would tend to keep the "cold" players in and take the "hot" players out because more times then not it seemed the "cold" player was better. This was before we even knew about editing the game, so cool that it has some sort of logic behind it.

To be honest, I don't look at ANY ratings or streaks before a game. Just go with my gut feeling.

-Evan

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Excellent job so far AJ on your line building. Might i be so bold as to request a write up on BOSTON?

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it's worse -- he may actually be cold, despite being called hot!

I don't know.

For me, the only one i care about is Bure. And when's he's hot, it's almost always a 5+ goal game.

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you shoujd try doing one for the Canadiens AJ

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AJ you've made some great flash cards for the 94 Trapper Keeper strategy guide, but I'm curious what do you think about offhandedness? Putting a righty on the LW and versa visea.

I think Finnish players do this but I'm not sure if this is cause they drive on the other side of the road.. I've always done it because I feel that it gives players a better angle in tight on one timers and rebound dunks. I've often done it to the exclusion of line synergy (with line changes enabled).

An answer is long overdue here and this is my short answer...depends.

Now, for a far more detailed answer. What it depends on for me personally is, whats my personnel? Do i have a big shooter in the middle, a powerful shot on the wing, gifted skaters, a combo, defensive specialist, etc.?

Here are some examples I've used over time and my reasoning for doing so.

GDL 1:

Carson ®-Turgeon(L)-Recchi(L)

All 3 have 4/5 shots, Carson and Turgeon are 4/4 skaters, Recchi a 5/4. I have a big shooter in the middle, and big shooter on each wing. Carson is a bit heavier, its tough to get to the net with him consistently, so its more useful to be able to feed him where its easier to do one-timers and let go of his slap shot. I liked Recchi on his forehand as well because he carried the puck a lot, so i wanted the slapshot as an option to keep the defense honest, also, hes fast enough to deke and his shot is strong enough to where the backhander isnt an issue.

GDL 3:

Hawerchuk (L)-Sandstrom(L)-Robitaille(L)

Hawerchuk is a playmaker, not much of a shooter, so its pretty useless to keep him on his off wing to utitlize his slapper. Guys would typically sag off of Hawerchuk, try to take away passing lanes to my two snipers, so when there was open ice it was much easier and efficient to attack the net on hawerchuks natural side. Another strength to him playing his natural side was that he could use his forwhand pass to feed Sandstroms forehand...5 passer to 5/5 shooter can be devestating. Robitiaille was used on his off wing for similar reasons to Recchi/Carson.

Blitz 1:

Kelly Miller(L)-Kontos(L)-Holik®

Miller had 4/4 speed and 3/3 shot, again, fairly useless to try and utilize his slapper a lot, much easier to use his skating to either crash the net or feed Kontos. Also, if i wanted to cut into the middle for a floater, i could do so, or i could fake the floater and stuff it in far post with a quick backhander. As for Holik, he was just a guy who could take and give a hit, and skate a little, he had no stand out skills with the puck. The most effective thing with Holik was crash the net and get a near post deke goal, much easier to do on his forehand than his back.

Classic Spring 09:

Turgeon(L)-Baker(L)-Smail(L)/Lazaro(L)/Lamb(L)

Some different reasoning here then the other all Lefty line. Turgeon has 4/4 speed and 3/2 shot, not much reason for him to be on his off wing or in the middle. Easier for him to have the room to use his speed and make plays on his natural wing. Baker has the best shot, thus he goes into the middle. The other 3 are more or less the same player, average skaters, lack of shooting. The reason to put them on their off wing? Due to their inability to slap shot effectively or deke consistently, its easier to feed them one-timers if they get into position since theoretically, they are shooting on a goalie who will more likely be out of position than not.

In general, what my constant goal was with my offense was being able to attack in as many ways as possible. If you got a big shooter who can go on a wing, put him there, open that option up, but, if there is a dearth of shooters on the wing, dont pigeon hole your self into difficult situations by putting them on their off wing.

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Great read these. Really love the depth you go into, and how you don't let your personal preferences decide that "This is right, this is wrong".

Would love to have a read on Chicago & the NY Rangers some time if possible? Didn't see them on the list

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Would love to have a read on Chicago & the NY Rangers some time if possible? Didn't see them on the list

Hey, thank you for reading and enjoying the articles, I really appreciate it.

I've just been on unoffical hiatus the last few months with this feature, things have been really hectic in my life the last few months, but i really do hope to finish the rest of the teams out and do some other planned features ive had for a while now.

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AJ, I also enjoyed reading this. I was going to comment earlier but didn't want to get reamed for being the guy bumping up old posts. I let noober scoober LA Robby do my dirty work. I should of just said something earlier anyway.

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Update

I've started writing again which has been long overdue. I have Chicago, Vancouver, and Anaheim almost finalized and ready for posting. I'm going to stagger their realease over the next week or two and continue work on the rest of the teams in the mean time.

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finally some progress as these line buliding are some of the best reads on the forums aside from all the stuff hokkee posts

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finally some progress as these line buliding are some of the best reads on the forums aside from all the stuff hokkee posts

I agree. I must say, this is turning into a fine project. I see myself using these suggestions since I don't play with certain teams a lot. Mainly the Capitals and the Blues. I never pick them. I've never had great success with those two teams. Other teams like the Flyers and the Nodicks for example, I shy away from because I have no idea who really to throw in. Before "building lines with AJ", I would just watch who the 'A' players would throw in and try to remember.

Now, everything is at my fingertips lol. This will also help the nubs too. And I really don't think you are giving away any of your secrets because after all, you still have to have some game to compete and the weight bug is no big secret.

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An answer is long overdue here and this is my short answer...depends.

Now, for a far more detailed answer. What it depends on for me personally is, whats my personnel? Do i have a big shooter in the middle, a powerful shot on the wing, gifted skaters, a combo, defensive specialist, etc.?

Here are some examples I've used over time and my reasoning for doing so.

GDL 1:

Carson ®-Turgeon(L)-Recchi(L)

All 3 have 4/5 shots, Carson and Turgeon are 4/4 skaters, Recchi a 5/4. I have a big shooter in the middle, and big shooter on each wing. Carson is a bit heavier, its tough to get to the net with him consistently, so its more useful to be able to feed him where its easier to do one-timers and let go of his slap shot. I liked Recchi on his forehand as well because he carried the puck a lot, so i wanted the slapshot as an option to keep the defense honest, also, hes fast enough to deke and his shot is strong enough to where the backhander isnt an issue.

GDL 3:

Hawerchuk (L)-Sandstrom(L)-Robitaille(L)

Hawerchuk is a playmaker, not much of a shooter, so its pretty useless to keep him on his off wing to utitlize his slapper. Guys would typically sag off of Hawerchuk, try to take away passing lanes to my two snipers, so when there was open ice it was much easier and efficient to attack the net on hawerchuks natural side. Another strength to him playing his natural side was that he could use his forwhand pass to feed Sandstroms forehand...5 passer to 5/5 shooter can be devestating. Robitiaille was used on his off wing for similar reasons to Recchi/Carson.

Blitz 1:

Kelly Miller(L)-Kontos(L)-Holik®

Miller had 4/4 speed and 3/3 shot, again, fairly useless to try and utilize his slapper a lot, much easier to use his skating to either crash the net or feed Kontos. Also, if i wanted to cut into the middle for a floater, i could do so, or i could fake the floater and stuff it in far post with a quick backhander. As for Holik, he was just a guy who could take and give a hit, and skate a little, he had no stand out skills with the puck. The most effective thing with Holik was crash the net and get a near post deke goal, much easier to do on his forehand than his back.

Classic Spring 09:

Turgeon(L)-Baker(L)-Smail(L)/Lazaro(L)/Lamb(L)

Some different reasoning here then the other all Lefty line. Turgeon has 4/4 speed and 3/2 shot, not much reason for him to be on his off wing or in the middle. Easier for him to have the room to use his speed and make plays on his natural wing. Baker has the best shot, thus he goes into the middle. The other 3 are more or less the same player, average skaters, lack of shooting. The reason to put them on their off wing? Due to their inability to slap shot effectively or deke consistently, its easier to feed them one-timers if they get into position since theoretically, they are shooting on a goalie who will more likely be out of position than not.

In general, what my constant goal was with my offense was being able to attack in as many ways as possible. If you got a big shooter who can go on a wing, put him there, open that option up, but, if there is a dearth of shooters on the wing, dont pigeon hole your self into difficult situations by putting them on their off wing.

This should be split off into a separate stickied post : )

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Hartford Whalers

Goalie Zone: Fitting right in with the team, Sean Burke is more or less random mish-mash on paper, but not too shabby on the ice.

Sean Burke: 10 weight, 4/3 skating, 2/2 aware, 4 puck control, 4/4/4/4 save Catches: L

More often than not, a goalies overall rating is inflated by his awareness, a rating that doesn’t mean a whole lot. Burke benefits from the opposite, he’s actually much better than advertised. Blessed with solid rebound control and pads, if Burke can get to the puck, he’s pretty dependable. The weight might prove a little problematic, but his flaws are less numerous than a similar rated Richter, Blue, or Vernon.

Goalies: 6.5/10

I don't know if I missed it. But, could you explain how the attributes effect the goalies?? Like "WEIGHT" and "AGILITY", YOU SAID THE "AWARENESS" doesn't mean much, what does it mean exactly for a goalie? "PUCK CONTROL" specifically means what? Rebounds?

Same for the skaters- "STICKHANDLING" basically means the guy doesn't cough up the puck much? Does "ENERGY" only apply when line changes are used or is that "ENDURANCE"?

"AGGRESSIVENESS", "AGILITY"? "CHECKING" doesn't apply, only the weight does for this correct?

I might of missed it somewhere.

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Hey,

Just a simple question about the line nomenclature... when you say

Gretzky-Sandstrom-Robitaille

Is Gretzky the LW or the RW ?

Edited by Dragon

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I always read them left to right as left to right. Paille/Campbell/Thornton//Ference/McQuaid//Rask has Paille and Ference on the left and Thornton and McQuaid on the right.

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Hey,

Just a simple question about the line nomenclature... when you say

Gretzky-Sandstrom-Robitaille

Is Gretzky the LW or the RW ?

Gretzky would be the LW. LW/C/RW.

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Gretzky would be the LW. LW/C/RW.

ok, thanks

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Hey, AJ, what's the best checking/goon line that you could make in the game?

Edited by Wittgenstein

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Hey, AJ, what's the best checking/goon line that you could make in the game?

I'd say Ronning, Bure, and G.Courtnall. Ronning and Bure can run down anyone with their high speed and low weight.

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