kingraph

GENS Player Attribute Survey

31 posts in this topic

I'm working on an analysis and need some help from you guys, particularly those who play online -- GDL, and Blitz would be best. How would you value player attributes from a scale from 1-5, where 5 is most valuable, and 1 is least? I'm hoping to get at least 10 responses. Your time is greatly appreciated and l will, of course, share my results afterwards. :)

I think of the scale this way (a guideline):

5 -- Very valuable. An attribute that I look for in a player every time.
4 -- Valuable. I look at this each time, but not quite as important as 5
3 -- If all else equal, I look at this attribute as a deciding factor.
2 -- A nice "to have", but will sacrifice for other attributes
1 -- Not important -- I rarely pay attention to this

A quick reference on attributes, as I understand them (thanks AILD and Smozoma):

Weight - Determines checking ability/resistance (lighter is better)and acceleration
Agility - How quickly a player stops and turns, deking ability
Speed - How quickly a player achieves top speed (acceleration)
Shot Power - Self explanatory
Shot Accuracy - Self explanatory
Stick Handling - Ability to receive pass, hold onto puck when poked/held
Pass Accuracy - Self explanatory
Off Awareness - Thought to give AI better positioning for one-timers
Def Awareness - AI players close down to their own net
Checking - How often AI checks

You can copy/paste from my first response below. Again, I appreciate your feedback.

UPDATE:
as of 08.18.11:

Forwards Mean Std Dev Mode
Weight 4.38 0.48 4
Agility 3.25 0.83 4
Speed 4.63 0.70 5
Shot Power 4.25 0.43 4
Shot Accuracy 3.63 1.11 3
Stick Handling 3.38 0.86 3
Pass Accuracy 2.88 0.78 3
Off Awareness 2.63 0.86 3
Def Awareness 1.50 0.71 1
Checking 1.25 0.66 1

Defensemen
Weight 5.00 0.00 5
Agility 3.13 1.17 2
Speed 3.75 0.43 4
Shot Power 2.88 1.17 4
Shot Accuracy 2.13 0.78 3
Stick Handling 3.38 0.86 3
Pass Accuracy 3.50 0.87 3
Off Awareness 1.25 0.43 1
Def Awareness 3.88 0.93 3
Checking 1.88 1.27 1

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Forwards

Weight - 4

Agility - 2

Speed - 5

Shot Power - 5

Shot Accuracy - 3

Stick Handling - 2

Pass Accuracy - 3

Off Awareness - 2

Def Awareness - 1

Checking - 1

Defensemen

Weight - 5

Agility - 2

Speed - 3

Shot Power - 4

Shot Accuracy - 3

Stick Handling - 2

Pass Accuracy - 3

Off Awareness - 1

Def Awareness - 3

Checking - 1

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Forwards

Weight - 4

Agility - 3

Speed - 5

Shot Power - 5

Shot Accuracy - 5

Stick Handling - 4

Pass Accuracy - 3

Off Awareness - 1

Def Awareness - 1

Checking - 1

Defense

Weight - 5

Agility - 3

Speed - 4

Shot Power - 1

Shot Accuracy - 1

Stick Handling - 5

Pass Accuracy - 5

Off Awareness - 1

Def Awareness - 3

Checking - 4

Edited by The Russian Rocket

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I know it's not quite on the topic, but, with SNES, a balanced weight is key (with unfixed Genesis versions, the light have a clear advantage).

with all versions, having a player who will crash the net is crucial (unless you are playing with friends on your team to do that for you) to the point that offensive awareness can't be ignored completely; I suggest having a crashing center and weakside winger.

I forget... is the checking rating not factored into manual checking ability at all?

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Forwards

Weight - 4

Agility - 4

Speed - 5

Shot Power - 4

Shot Accuracy - 5

Stick Handling - 5

Pass Accuracy - 4

Off Awareness - 4

Def Awareness - 3

Checking - 3

Defensemen

Weight - 5

Agility - 3

Speed - 4

Shot Power - 4

Shot Accuracy - 3

Stick Handling - 4

Pass Accuracy - 3

Off Awareness - 2

Def Awareness - 4

Checking - 4

Edited by RedWingDevil

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I know it's not quite on the topic, but, with SNES, a balanced weight is key (with unfixed Genesis versions, the light have a clear advantage).

with all versions, having a player who will crash the net is crucial (unless you are playing with friends on your team to do that for you) to the point that offensive awareness can't be ignored completely; I suggest having a crashing center and weakside winger.

I forget... is the checking rating not factored into manual checking ability at all?

In classic GENS ("unfixed"), the only factor in checking is weight. Smozoma's Blitz league uses weight (heavier = better) and checking to determine a checking factor, and uses weight as check resistance.

I haven't read anything where testing Offensive Awareness resulted in better CPU one-timer positioning or net crashing. It's always just assumed -- maybe I'm wrong. Personally, I never really pay attention to this rating. Not that's it's NOT important, but I value it so far less than other attributes that I never get down to that level. That's why I stress the word "value" over "importance" in my survey.

However, I have read, I believe from AILD, that in defensive awareness testing the players crowded towards the net more.

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Forwards

Weight: 4

Agility: 2

Speed: 4

Shot Power: 4

Shot Accuracy: 5

Stick Handling: 3

Pass Accuracy: 3

Off Awareness: 3

Def Awareness: 2

Checking: 1

Defensemen

Weight: 5

Agility: 2

Speed: 3

Shot Power: 4

Shot Accuracy: 3

Stick Handling: 3

Pass Accuracy: 4

Off Awareness: 1

Def Awareness: 5

Checking: 1

Edited by PRoBob38

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instead of rating them individually, i'll just order them from most important to least

forwards:

(gdl) weight, low

speed

shot power

agility

shot accuracy

(blitz) weight, high (although sometimes it's a trade-off, since low weight makes guys quicker)

(blitz) checking

stick handling

passing

off aw

def aw

(gdl) checking

defense:

(gdl) weight, low

(blitz) weight high

(blitz) checking

agility

speed

passing

stick handling

def aw

shot power (higher if he's got a 5+ shot, since that's useful)

shot accuracy

off aw

(gdl) checking

also, different players have different roles. in blitz, you'll sometimes pick a heavy winger without much of a shot, just to have a banger to play defense or barge through the defense to the net.

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Forwards

Weight: 5

Agility: 3

Speed: 5

Shot Power: 4

Shot Accuracy: 2

Stick Handling: 4

Pass Accuracy: 2

Off Awareness: 3

Def Awareness: 1

Checking: 1

Defensemen

Weight: 5

Agility: 2

Speed:4

Shot Power: 4

Shot Accuracy: 1

Stick Handling: 3

Pass Accuracy: 2

Off Awareness: 1

Def Awareness: 5

Checking: 2

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Forwards

Weight - 4

Agility - 4

Speed - 5

Shot Power - 4

Shot Accuracy - 3

Stick Handling - 3

Pass Accuracy - 2

Off Awareness - 3

Def Awareness - 2

Checking - 1

Defenders

Weight - 5

Agility - 5

Speed - 4

Shot Power - 2

Shot Accuracy - 2

Stick Handling - 4

Pass Accuracy - 3

Off Awareness - 2

Def Awareness - 3

Checking - 1

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What about goalies attributes?

GA

Edited by Zalex

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Forwards

Weight: 5 (3 with weight bug fix)

Agility: 4

Speed: 3 ( 4 with weight bug fix)

Shot Power: 4

Shot Accuracy: 3

Stick Handling: 3

Pass Accuracy: 4

Off Awareness: 3

Def Awareness: 1

Checking: 1 (2 with weight bug fix)

Defensemen

Weight: 5 (3 with weight bug fix)

Agility: 3

Speed:4

Shot Power: 2

Shot Accuracy: 2

Stick Handling: 3

Pass Accuracy: 4

Off Awareness: 1

Def Awareness: 5

Checking: 1 (3 with weight bug fix)

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Oops, forgot to do checking. Oh well, guess that tells ya how much I care about that rating.

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What about goalies attributes?

GA

I felt that would be asking TOO much -- I wanted to keep the survey as simple as possible. Most players (including me) don't really look at individual goalie attributes and/or understand how they impact the goalie from a manual and auto perspective. You assume the higher rated goalie is best, and never really scroll through the attributes. The only thing I read about was Agility being key for auto goalie, and Speed and Weight being key for manual.

Anyhow, I'm also using average draft position from the GDL draft (seasons 6,7&8) to value goalies. It's a good indicator of what attributes (if any) are valued.

The draft data also will also correlate with this survey data...it'll make more sense when I post my analysis.

And thank you all who have already responded!

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Oops, forgot to do checking. Oh well, guess that tells ya how much I care about that rating.

Ha -- I noticed, so I kept it blank (doesn't affect the average). You can always update it, thanks.

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Ha -- I noticed, so I kept it blank (doesn't affect the average). You can always update it, thanks.

You can just make them 1's for both. Or leave them blank. Doesn't matter.

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You can just make them 1's for both. Or leave them blank. Doesn't matter.

Speed for Defense?

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Speed for Defense?

I left that off too?! Holy crap.... I'll just edit my comment. lol.

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Shameless bump. :P

My goal was 10 responses, I have 8 (including my own)...two more please! Either way, I will post my write-up before Wed.

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The results!

Forwards: I feel the need...the need for SPEED! Gathering the highest average (4.63) and the most "5" votes, speed is most valued for forwards. Weight and Shot Power follow, with much more consistency in the results.

Defensemen: No doubt about it -- WEIGHT is king for defensemen. Everyone (!) who has responded has rated weight a 5, the only category to do so. One major difference from forwards is Defensive Awareness, ranked second highest in terms of average, but speed and shot power still received a 4 most frequently.

I used these results as part of a more detailed analysis found here:

NHL'94 Team Rankings

Thank you all again for your help! Feel free to continue to respond if you want to, I will update the results in my first post periodically.

as of 08.18.11:

Forwards		Mean	Std Dev	Mode
Weight              	4.38 	0.48 	4 
Agility                	3.25 	0.83 	4 
Speed               	4.63 	0.70 	5 
Shot Power		4.25 	0.43 	4 
Shot Accuracy		3.63 	1.11 	3 
Stick Handling		3.38 	0.86 	3 
Pass Accuracy		2.88 	0.78 	3 
Off Awareness		2.63 	0.86 	3 
Def Awareness		1.50 	0.71 	1 
Checking		1.25 	0.66 	1 

Defensemen				
Weight              	5.00 	0.00 	5 
Agility                	3.13 	1.17 	2 
Speed               	3.75 	0.43 	4 
Shot Power		2.88 	1.17 	4 
Shot Accuracy		2.13 	0.78 	3 
Stick Handling		3.38 	0.86 	3 
Pass Accuracy		3.50 	0.87 	3 
Off Awareness		1.25 	0.43 	1 
Def Awareness		3.88 	0.93 	3 
Checking		1.88 	1.27 	1 

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Bump for anyone who would like respond to this survey who hasn't already. B)

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CB Update for me here:

Forwards

Weight - 2 (High weight better AI checks & CB power, low weight more agile, good team has both ends of these)
Agility - 5 (Most important)
Speed - 5 (Speed creates room)
Shot Power - 3 (Possibly 4, provides range for onetimers, from close even Gretzky 2/2 is efficient)
Shot Accuracy - 2 (Accuracy only becomes more important when outside the goal horizontally, players seem to miss more then)
Stick Handling - 2 (CB has reduced how important this is, before CB it would've been 5)
Pass Accuracy - 2 (Having this as high results in better pass shots, but not a primary skill to sought for)
Off Awareness - 1 (Reaction to your team having the puck)
Def Awareness - 4 (Intercept & strip pucks, reaction to opponent having the puck)
Checking - 4 (AI Power & help with CB)

Defencemen:

Weight: 5 (Very important in player matchups)
Agility: 5 (Very important)
Speed: 2 (You can burst your way back even with Fetisov very well who has a speed of 2, Coffey & Housley have other uses than D as well as an exception)
Shot Power: 1 (I don't care about slappers from D-men, a good shot is just a bonus)
Shot Accuracy: 1 (-""-)
Stick Handling: 2 (Not too important)
Pass Accuracy: 4 (Opening passes are important to get the puck moving fast)
Off Awareness: 1
Def Awareness: 5 (Intercept & strip pucks, reaction to opponent having the puck)
Checking: 4 (AI power & enhances ability with CB)

Edited by Depch

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On 8/6/2011 at 10:28 AM, kingraph said:

Forwards

Weight - 3

Agility - 5

Speed - 4

Shot Power - 5

Shot Accuracy - 4

Stick Handling - 5

Pass Accuracy - 4

Off Awareness - 4

Def Awareness - 1

Checking - 1

Defensemen

Weight - 4

Agility - 4

Speed - 3

Shot Power - 1

Shot Accuracy - 1

Stick Handling - 4

Pass Accuracy - 4

Off Awareness - 1

Def Awareness - 5

Checking - 3

My thoughts 

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Prob similar to others:

Forwards
Weight - 3
Agility - 4
Speed - 5
Shot Power - 4
Shot Accuracy - 3
Stick Handling - 4
Pass Accuracy - 2
Off Awareness - 4
Def Awareness - 1
Checking - 1

Defensemen
Weight - 4
Agility - 4
Speed - 3
Shot Power - 1
Shot Accuracy - 1
Stick Handling - 3
Pass Accuracy - 3
Off Awareness - 1
Def Awareness - 4
Checking - 2

 

Edited by TexasPachyderm

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13 minutes ago, TexasPachyderm said:

Prob similar to others:

Actually I'm quite different from you here and also different from Lupz (Both of the ones that have been updated since CB came around)

I have began to emphasize a lot of the AI attributes that effect AI behaviour without the puck more. Especially the awarenesses on forwards are the other way around for me. I don't find offensive awareness meaningfull at all, it has no supportive contribution other than the reaction to team with the puck. Klima is great at 3 OA, my C at fantasy tournament was great with 0-2.

Also stickhandling was great before CB, but now it's lost a lot of it's mojo, it still sucks if you have 2 or perhaps even 3 stickhandling in the zone, but having 5 or 6 is less important now as toddling does not happen much at all.

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My old (Aug'11, pre CB) rankings and my | current survey result.  I value stick/agility a lot more now, and less shot on my d-men. 

 

Forwards
Weight - 4 | 4
Agility - 2 | 4
Speed - 5 | 5
Shot Power - 5 | 5
Shot Accuracy - 3 | 3
Stick Handling - 2 | 4
Pass Accuracy - 3 | 3
Off Awareness - 2 | 2
Def Awareness - 1 | 1
Checking - 1 | 3

Defensemen
Weight - 5 | 5
Agility - 2 | 4
Speed - 3 | 3
Shot Power - 4 | 2
Shot Accuracy - 3 | 2
Stick Handling - 2 | 3
Pass Accuracy - 3 | 2
Off Awareness - 1 | 1
Def Awareness - 3 | 3
Checking - 1 | 3

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3 hours ago, Depch said:


I have began to emphasize a lot of the AI attributes that effect AI behaviour without the puck more. Especially the awarenesses on forwards are the other way around for me. I don't find offensive awareness meaningfull at all, it has no supportive contribution other than the reaction to team with the puck. Klima is great at 3 OA, my C at fantasy tournament was great with 0-2.

I do find offensive awareness helpful, especially in my center as i tend to know they will be where i want them before even coming on the screen.  though i def don't know as much about all these attributes as y'all.

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Off AWR also works for pass receptions and possession in the Ozone

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6 hours ago, The Russian Rocket said:

Off AWR also works for pass receptions and possession in the Ozone

I have not noticed the difference in pass receptions in regards of offensive awareness. I also remember that there has been a speculation of offensive awareness enhancing offensive abilities at one point. Even Gretzky fumbles passes, to me it's more of pass speed / pass angle thing and also if the crowd is working against you as a visitor. Short passes get fumbled much easier from behind the receiver and the other scenario is very long passes to fast players when you don't take control off the receiver yourself, Russ Courtnall gets hit by the puck to skates very often. :P This is just my experiences and notices, I might be totally wrong.

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Klima is bugged at 3/2 awareness. 3/2 and 2/3 actually act similar to 5/3 and 3/5.

More awareness = better pass reception. I'm not sure if this is total awareness or offensive, but at least one of them is the main factor in pass reception. 

I also believe the higher the defensive awareness, the easier it is to knock the puck off of your opponent's stick just by putting their stick blade against it (without pressing any buttons). This I'm not 100% sure of, but there was something (I can't remember) that made me think it's the case.

 

 

 

 

 

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