PlabaxV2

Insider Weight Knowledge! (Weight Bug)

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PlabaxV2    0

The weight bug as we all know it, is a bug that seems to have reversed the checking in NHL '94 - Light players are hard to check while being the best checkers and vice versa for heavy players, but, if you have actually ever watched a "demo" game of NHL '94 or just watched the AI body check, you can see that it works differently. This is how it works :

When the BODY CHECKER is controlled by a user, the weight bug is applied.

When the BODY CHECKER is controlled by a computer, the weight bug is never applied.

Here are some examples (weight in brackets) :

Standard NHL '94 Scenarios (User Controlled)

Mike Modano (7) is on offense, Pavel Bure (5) is on defense. A body check from Pavel Bure will knock Modano down.

Mike Modano (7) is on offense, Mario Lemieux (10) is on defense. A body check from Lemieux won't knock Modano down.

Special NHL '94 Scenarios (Computer controlled)

Mike Modano (7) is on offense, Pavel Bure (5) is on defense. A body check from Bure won't knock Modano Down.

Mike Modano (7) is on offense, Mario Lemieux (10) is on defense. A body check from Lemieux will knock Modano down.

This means, that one can make heavy players check light players by pressing the "B" button right after pressing the "C" button, to ensure that the COMPUTER makes contact with the player instead of the USER.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I discovered this yesterday, and tried it out in a couple of my GDL games and sure enough, it works! Although it did come at the cost of Freydey beating me (since I am terrible with the C check, taking nothing away from Freydey tho), it's still a pretty neat trick!

gretzkyonacold (4:39:03 PM):how come mario can knock down cam russell?

Cheers!

Edited by PlabaxV2

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kingraph    54

I thought it was known that the weight bug only pertained to the players you control, but pressing B to change away from that player a split second after checking is a pretty new idea! Will have to try this out!

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IceStorm70    2

Wait if you hit the B button right after hitting C it will in effect be a B chk with added speed. You wouldnt change to another player since the player u hit C with is closest to the puck carrier.

Am i missing something?

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LA Robbie    0

Wait if you hit the B button right after hitting C it will in effect be a B chk with added speed. You wouldnt change to another player since the player u hit C with is closest to the puck carrier.

Am i missing something?

Man am I the only one who regularly gets given a guy who's not the closest to the puck carrier?! A regular occurance for me is hitting B to make a B check & having it switch to a guy on the other side of the rink!

Edited by LA Robbie

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Freydey    0

Hahahahahahabhahaha

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CoachMac    59

Interesting....

Questions:

#1. So if you set up a game in Demo mode the wt. bug will not exist since no players are user controlled?

#1A What will determine the success of a check in this scenario?

#2 When playing the CPU in 1 player mode the CPU players will never have the wt. bug applied when they are the checker since none of the players are user controlled?

#2A What will determine the success of a check in this scenario?

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PlabaxV2    0

#1 - Yes,

#1A - Just like the weight fix. Heavier is better

#2 - Yes.

#2 - If the user is lighter than the CPU, the user will check the CPU. If the CPU is heavier than the user, the CPU will check the user.

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CoachMac    59

Thanks for your response.

One more question.

When 2 equal wt players check each other or if you apply the equal checking fix.

What determines if the check is successful?

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PlabaxV2    0

Nothing will happen since they are the same weight. The difference between the body checker and the receiver has to be at least 2 for a body check to work.

Note with the weight bug it's -2 instead of 2.

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CoachMac    59

So if you try and check a player with the same wt the check will fail?

Smoz:

What would happen if there were two 2Bs or two 2As in the code for the weight-bug?

even checking, with different weights.
ie it'd behave as though 2 guys with equal weights were in a check, even though they actually have different weights.

90 2b 00 67 - SUB.B #$0067(A3),D0 - sub guy checking's (wgt*8)
d0 2a 00 67 - ADD.B #$0067(A2),D0 - add guy getting checked (wgt*8)

if you make them both 2b or both 2a, then you basically don't change the value of D0 at all.

In my the 93 rom that I applied equal checking to, body checks still work.

How would you explain that?

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PlabaxV2    0

I cannot explain that. I don't know anything about those things. Sorry

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trudatman    2

the checking calculations are not varied?! an inferior checker can't ever check a stronger/heavier/lighter/whatever guy? that doesn't seem right. they literally can't ever knock a clone down? really? that's just Genesis, I guess.

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PlabaxV2    0

the checking calculations are not varied?! an inferior checker can't ever check a stronger/heavier/lighter/whatever guy? that doesn't seem right. they literally can't ever knock a clone down? really? that's just Genesis, I guess.

They can, but it happens very rarely. I know what you are saying that it doesn't seem "right" but it's definitely better than SNES where it's a body checking fest - The reason I hate the SNES version so much.

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CoachMac    59

Eliminating weight from the checking equation as my rom does.

Body checking still works and it is varied.

And I love it.

I am just curious as to what determines the success.

You can find my even checking rom here:

http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/8030-how-to-fix-the-weight-bug-gens/page-3

Trudatman do you know what determines the success of a check in SNES?

Is it just wt? Like the wt bug fix.

Is it wt and chking? Like the improved wt bug fix.

metzgerism, on Sep 26 2008, 04:49 PM, said:snapback.png

Smoz:


What would happen if there were two 2Bs or two 2As in the code for the weight-bug?



Quote

even checking, with different weights.

ie it'd behave as though 2 guys with equal weights were in a check, even though they actually have different weights.


90 2b 00 67 - SUB.B #$0067(A3),D0 - sub guy checking's (wgt*8)

d0 2a 00 67 - ADD.B #$0067(A2),D0 - add guy getting checked (wgt*8)


if you make them both 2b or both 2a, then you basically don't change the value of D0 at all.

Edited by CoachMac

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trudatman    2

I think it is mostly weight, but angle is crucial, too. if the guy turns away, you'll usually just push him further and faster away. I used to think endurance was part of it, but I guess that's just a fatigue rating. I wish I knew all, but we have much left to define.

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LA Robbie    0

What are the things on your banner Trudatman? I can make out a stick, a honey pot, a cartoon bomb, a potato peeler, not sure, a cell phone, an etch-a-scetch with a map of the world on it....................& a man with a spoon head?

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trudatman    2

wow. that's stuff from my Sticks And Stones demo, which is essentially stick figure Zelda. you have a stick (sword), a bag of stones (bow), a bomb (bomb), a bow and arrows (wand), a cellphone (whistle), a bag of marijuana (medicine) and you (Link). give it a try. it's fun and fairly difficult.

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kingraph    54

I've been using this method more and more as I've gotten the timing and rhythm down a little better. It definitely works and it's a great way to make your heavy D-men more useful in classic/GDL. You just have to be more aware of who your light/heavy guys are and your opponents, so you know which checking method to apply.

To add to this find -- the reverse in Blitz is also appears to be true. You can put the weight bug BACK in the game using this method -- checking with lighter guys on heavy players, switching to CPU by pressing B right after C. I believe since the weight bug "fix" simply reverses the signs, the underlying formula is still the same, so this method/glitch works in reverse.

Seriously guys -- imo, this is a valuable skill to learn. Should be garnering more attention.

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smozoma    65

This is game-breaking.. anyone can check anyone.. :(

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This is game-breaking.. anyone can check anyone.. :(

Heh. They said this about pass goals, and other s**t stuff.

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kingraph    54

This is game-breaking.. anyone can check anyone.. :(

I wonder if there is a separate checking equation for when a computer checks a player. If so, that could then be modified to match the human checking equation, restoring the balance.

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smozoma    65

The funny thing is that the value from where I fixed the weight bug before is getting used in both User and CPU checks. So I fixed the weight bug in the wrong place.

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CoachMac    59

The funny thing is that the value from where I fixed the weight bug

before is getting used in both User and CPU checks. So I fixed the

weight bug in the wrong place.

Can you please explain further?

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smozoma    65

Can you please explain further?

Well, I fixed a calculation that was giving a result, say "X". I made it -X, and that made it so if the User checks, it appears to work properly (heavy guys hit light guys). However, the real bug appears to be that somewhere it is saying,

"if the user is checking, use X and if the CPU is checking, use -X"

so all I did was reverse that so it's saying

"if the user is checking, use -X and if the CPU is checking, use +X"

So to fix it completely, I'd need to figure out where it is making that user/CPU check distinction and make it use the same value, say "X", in both places, so it behaves correctly for both User and CPU checks.

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trudatman    2

yeah, that's kind of a serious issue. are you sure that you agree that the calculation is different for the computer-controlled players?

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Brutus    42

It's one hundred percent there.

And watching someone demonstrate the trick that highlights this, well it's like a sliding B check, to imagine it, and it only works cause the CPU is controlling the player when the calculation is made on impact.

And, that's why Bourque & Stevens types who are really aggressive and heavy checkers are best left not used at times, as the computer will beat the piss out of the lighter player who is skating around like he's wearing titanium armor on, and the CPU's C check does actually knock them down.

So, in Blitz, the fat f&cker loses this skill, and JR & Co become the new computer checkers.

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CoachMac    59

So back to this.

Does this not take weight out of the equation and just make it that unknown or perhaps even the checking rating that determines the sucess of a check?

even checking, with different weights.

ie it'd behave as though 2 guys with equal weights were in a check, even though they actually have different weights.

90 2b 00 67 - SUB.B #$0067(A3),D0 - sub guy checking's (wgt*8)

d0 2a 00 67 - ADD.B #$0067(A2),D0 - add guy getting checked (wgt*8)

if you make them both 2b or both 2a, then you basically don't change the value of D0 at all.

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