EloonMillz

SNES VS SEGA NHL 94 HOT DEBATE

95 posts in this topic

I think if you were to honestly compare the two games, GENS is the cleaner version of a head-to-head smash style hockey game, which is what these games are. Neither would effectively hold up to any kind of simulation based criticism/evaluation, so to try to compare GENS against real hockey is retarded, cause again, BOTH FAIL any analysis.

In essence, you are playing PAPER, ROCK & SCISSORS at a high speed pace magically tossed inside some hockey rules.

If you do this & I do that, I win. If I guess this way, and you guess that, you win, etc.

So, to me, the GENS game is more "ridiculous" with out being NBA JAM ridiculous, and the SNES is less crazy.

I've played both, and currently enjoy playing the SNES much more because the buds are around to play more often, more consistently & seem to be better type of dudes to play with. That could just be the current online situation. Perhaps 2 years ago, GENS was the more properly flavored group of online dudes.

I 100% think that 98% of anyone who played a version for more than a year is probably going to prefer the original way he learned how to play, because make no mistake about it, they play completely different.

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nice post. thanks. the rock/paper/scissors thing is a funny way to look at it. I feel like that applies more to the Genesis version, where a larger knowledge base of ways to score in different places (and the very few ways to defend against them) will lead to wins. to me, SNES seems more like a seat-of-the-pants panicked, frantic playoff game of hockey. the Genesis version is a great video game (yep, it is), the SNES version is a great hockey video game. "simulation" may be a stretch, but that's what aim for with my hacks. to me the Genesis version is to hockey what NFL Blitz is to American football. it's still a fun game. in fact, I prefer Blitz games to Madden games. when it comes to hockey games, nobody has beaten SNES NHL '94 yet. I love threads like this, but too many people get all bent out of shape by my words like I threatened their children.

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Yeah, that's funny you mention the playoff hockey. In a recent AIM chat w/ Uncle Seth, I was explaining to him the differences between the two games, as he knew I'd been playing SNES of late, and we've played hundreds of GENS exhibs.

I told him, a) I like the GENS better, B) playing SNES is better than NOT playing GENS (weird set of words, but it can be hard to get a game on GENS of late)

And C) SNES FEELS more like a hockey game on the SNES version, but when actually break down the "why", it really isn't for "hockey" reasons.

Yet somehow, it does feel more like hockey.

In fact, I think this reason might be why the dudes who play SNES might be a better crop of dudes, as they tend to be less video gamers and more hockey gamers. I am way too new to the NHL94 community to really make this statement with any certainty or really, with much of a right to have the opinion, as online communities I'm sure change every so often, and maybe GENS was the uber cool dudes once, and SNES was a stack of dickheads before!

Who knows, let the rage debate run on.

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Brutus I like how you said SNES is less crazy and Genesis is more ridiculous. When I first started playing SNES I told someone (I think Smoz maybe) that SNES feels like solving a challenging math problem or playing chess while Genesis felt more like painting a picture or creating art. Kind of weird lol but bear with me.

I really feel like Genesis is more like art, with lots of different weird things you can do to reach an outcome. You can shot pass, get weird 5 hole pass goals, it has a shot that literally works every time if executed properly (crease cut). Also the skating feels much looser and goalie control is delayed (in the original anyway) which makes timing that another challenge in itself. To me, these things make Genesis games very unique while SNES is more linear and you're more like having a chess match against an opponent. The skating is tighter, passing is much crisper and you don't see passes go right through defensemen nearly as often as Genesis. Also it has defensive control buttons and goalie control, which really help if you use them properly.

I really enjoy both, but I guess I kind of get why some people don't like one or the other too. They are really different at the core, even though they look and feel extremely similar on the surface.

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In fact, I think this reason might be why the dudes who play SNES might be a better crop of dudes, as they tend to be less video gamers and more hockey gamers. I am way too new to the NHL94 community to really make this statement with any certainty or really, with much of a right to have the opinion, as online communities I'm sure change every so often, and maybe GENS was the uber cool dudes once, and SNES was a stack of dickheads before!

The ZSNES emulator is waaaayyy better than Gens, for what it's worth. Maybe this appeals to less "gamer" types who would be turned off by the Gens emulator being unpolished and much more technically challenging because desyncing is much more common in Gens, you can't load savestates, you have to exit game to configure your controller... the list goes on. Also in the SNES version you get to pick home or away teams before the game (like what they put in NHL 95) so you don't have to rehost and go through all that hassle.

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You are 100% right about the technical side.

GENS desynch often & more often w/ having to exit just to switch sides.

SNES allows typing IN GAME.

I was more talking console to console style. Emulator wise, SNES destroys GENS, like 98 score to like 48. The only reason GENS emulator is even acceptable is it is THE ONLY way to effectively play that maddeningly sweet NHL94 video heaven without having your friends over to the house.

My comments about GENS being smoother relate more to the actual play once the game is flowing evenly without lag, etc.

Love the painting art references. Definitely some really creative GENS players, found out first hand in GDL.

And, the goalie delay is actually something I like in GENS. Adds more strategy and relieves the cheapest SNES move of grabbing the goalie and ramming the opposition to get a penalty!

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Yeah I forgot about the typing in game. That's definitely a huge perk worth mentioning. The average person would just have an easier time dealing with the SNES emulator, while a technical newbie might find Gens not worth the hassle.

The whole goalie control button debate thing is a weird one. Obviously the creators would have rather had a dedicated goalie button, but because they didn't it adds a weird dynamic to the game. I hate the Genesis goalie control, and it's less advanced so I really don't like the argument that it's a good thing, but I guess to each their own.

Oh, and the SNES goalie interference penalty rate is way too high, and it is definitely a top 5 issue I have with that version haha.

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now we're typing. love this conversation, guys.

I've been medium pimpernetting since day two and I'm pretty sure the SNES players were never "a stack of dickheads." there was a period before the GA where the Genesis dudes were almost all cool and approachable and kind. they -- believe it or don't -- actually seem to be getting better again of late. probably because the rowdy bullies of subpar intellect have grown up or bored or a combination of the two. take with grains, as I don't play onlag, but I do read nearly every word on this site.

I like ZSNES for its filters (there's a set which makes it look like a current generation game with its smooth edging) and it's simplicity, but I dig SNES9x for its accuracy in emulation. I've never run GENS, but Fusion would be okay if it would just plug and play with controllers instead of failing to read right directional commands without some sort of fixes (I have the same issue with NES emulation but never with SNES emulation).

keep it coming!

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Makes no sense.. A hockey gamer IS a video gamer. Even then it would not make anybody a better person. Who is flattering you so much to the point where you are calling them "uber" cool? Relax, that's a little over the top.


Anyway, I wouldn't say Genesis version is like NFL Blitz.. That's more NHL Hitz in my opinion. At this point I am almost certain that trudatman has never played more than 5 games of the GENS version, he holds no credibility when he speaks about it and he makes a lot of things up.


As for Bo saying the crease cut works 100% when executed properly, wouldn't it be the same for all the other scoring methods in the game


For whatever game is a better "hockey" game, they each have their strengths.


Shooting :


The shooting system on the SNES is more realistic, but it's not better. It is more realistic because you have to aim your one-timers - they don't automatically go to the hardest spot for the goalie to get to like in GENS, which creates a problem. Problem is

that the shots in SNES are so slow! You shoot like an old pussy in the SNES.. the puck floats like a hot air balloon. The ways to score are very limited and you'll find most of the top players going to a certain strategy to win, which will be in the next category.

The shooting in GENS feels nicer because the shots are quick, but the one-timers are a serious pain to stop unlike SNES. Good thing they aren't as easy to pull off.


No question, advantage GENS.


Passing :


Easy on the SNES. Tape-to-Tape cheese that players exploit to the fullest. It is way too difficult to win against, pass abusers, especially if your opponent is a defensive machine. GENS passing is not as "smooth", and it can get very frustrating. However, in general the passing works just fine and it goes for a more realistic, but worse passing system.


The tape-to-tape is more ideal for a hockey video game, so advantage SNES.


Skating


Much smoother on the SNES. Feels better, +1. On GENS, it's more of an art. Great skating leads to cool dangles and sexy deke goals , +1.


I like skating on both systems. advantage even.


Defense


This will be biased for me, I HATE body checking fests.. That's exactly what SNES is. Everyone can check everyone and it's a very stupid system. I say this because I come from GENS, which has a more structured system on who can check who. This leads to more strategy on how to play your defense. Playing defense is easier on SNES with the D control, but good defense has a much bigger impact than it does on GENS.


I find the body check fest to be the worst thing about the game, I'd say it's the thing that keeps the SNES version from being as exciting, and thus as good.


Advantage GENS.


Goalies


Besides the instant manual goalie on SNES, GENS has SNES by the throat in this category, bigtime.


Advantage GENS.


Community


Advantage to whoever has Plabax :D

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that's pretty good analysis, Plabby. I was really worried when I saw you posted after me, but the only two points I think necessitate refutation are that I only have played the Genesis version five times (more like two hundred and five, which, admittedly isn't a lot) and the goalie thing (which makes me question if you've played the SNES version five times). I owned a Genesis until about two years ago and I have about a dozen of the cartridge -- I played it when I needed to change it up but now I have ROMs for that. I can't imagine that anybody else will step up to say that Genesis goaltending is somehow better than the SNES version that let's you immediately switch to the netminder and pick from several available moves to make the save or whatever. stacking the pads alone on the SNES trumps all netminding on the Genesis. who wants to wait until the puck is in the net to switch to the goalie?

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Best way to state it would be there are more d&ckheads like you in Gens, and almost by not having the "you's" in SNES, appear to be Uber cool to someone like me.

And, they've got Halifax, who is universally excepted as one cool "bud" by everyone.

A hockey gamer is not a video gamer though, imo. Since you are the primary type of guy I'm referring to, it's clear WHY you wouldn't get the difference. Nice analysis of the two systems though.

Trud, for the goalie issue, the instant switch is nice if you like that option (which I don't), but the goalie control absolutely blows in SNES. IN Gens, when you have the goalie, you do feel like you are controlling a goalie, and in SNES, it feels like a graphic block that moves left & right more like a pong stick.

There's a memory flash. PONG.


Again, even if I liked the instant switch, I definitely would still give a big edge to GENS on the goalie issue, and then toss in the goalie penalty cheapness, and it's a no brainer.

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wow. rebuked on the goalie thing right away. hmm... I guess I never get the Genesis goalie in time to actually do anything with him, so I'm comparing that to a goalie I can get and dive with, skate with, flash the glove with, stack the pads with, toss the puck down the ice with, pass with... those things sure beat the trying to anticipate when a shot will come and trying to get the goalie selection activated before th- oh, the puck is already in the net. damn it.

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A floating graphic block is the best description of SNES goalie control ever! Agree GENS goalie contol >>> SNES.

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There you go again.. You have no credibility you love to make things up. You CAN stack the pads on GENS.. In fact, you can do EVERY SINGLE of the "several" goalie moves that you can do on the SNES. Again, you are wrong, Nobody is waiting until the puck is in the net to take goalie control enough for it to be a problem. If this is a common issue for you then I can only imagine that your reaction timing is really really bad. Which is a problem with YOU, and not GENS.

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One thing that Gens has over SNES is the goddamn press Y and instantly get up (and hook your opponent) from a check thing. I absolutely HATE that glitch in SNES, it's maddening to lay a guy out with a nice hit only to have him instantly levitate, hook you, and you lose the puck. I can't believe the programmers let the glitch make it into the final version. If you're not familiar with it then you probably haven't played much online since literally every player does it, you're pretty much at a disadvantage if you don't do it.

Also the goalie interference penalties are out of control in SNES, and can be complete BS when the opposing goalie leaves the crease to check you and you end up with a penalty.

All that being said, SNES > GENS easy, but keep in mind this is coming from an extremely biased SNES 94 player who's been playing it since the day it came out. Gens just has too much of an arcade vibe and the skating/passing is so much more "loose" feeling as opposed to the tight SNES controls. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter though, it's just awesome that so many people still play each version and that we're all part of such a great community.

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okay, Plabby, I am sure you can do all of that stuff if you start try to get the goalie selected while the play is in the other team's zone.

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Best way to state it would be there are more d&ckheads like you in

Gens, and almost by not having the "you's" in SNES, appear to be Uber

cool to someone like me.

:)

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:)

CoachMac is smiling.. Why? I was setting up save-state compatibility for his NHL HITZ 93 league.. Not anymore LOL ungrateful f**k.

Edited by PlabaxV2

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PlabaxV2 is right. I should have not waded into this discussion.

PlabaxV2 has always been cool to me.

Just try being cool to everyone else Plabby.

Try being nice.

CoachMac is smiling.. Why?

Nice.

LOL ungrateful f**k

Not nice.

Now back to the great debate.

How was NHLPA 93 on the SNES?

Did it have the WT. BUG?

Did NHL Hockey (92) have the WT BUG on Gens?

Did the SNES have NHL Hockey (92)?

Edited by CoachMac

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I actually do not know anyone who has played '93 on both systems.

Maybe something to do over the holiday weekend to compare.

As far as weight bugs, I think I'm right in saying this:

No weight bug ever in SNES.

GENS weight bug appeared in '93.

I could be wrong about the '92 part, but I do recall Stevens PLOWING everyone in '92 and suddenly bouncing off Roenick in '93.

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Defense
This will be biased for me, I HATE body checking fests.. That's exactly what SNES is. Everyone can check everyone and it's a very stupid system. I say this because I come from GENS, which has a more structured system on who can check who. This leads to more strategy on how to play your defense. Playing defense is easier on SNES with the D control, but good defense has a much bigger impact than it does on GENS.
I find the body check fest to be the worst thing about the game, I'd say it's the thing that keeps the SNES version from being as exciting, and thus as good.
Advantage GENS.

I agree about the body check fest that SNES is, but I really like it. I think it makes for big turnovers and exciting plays. On Genesis you just have an invincible Theo Fluery or Jeremy Roenick who can knock anybody out at any time and almost nobody can check them over.

Also the dedicated defense control buttons (L and R for Left and Right D) help a lot if you use it properly, which I don't. But some guys do.

On the other side, I find the defensive AI on SNES is sometimes weird and the guys seem to "switch sides" too much, as in the left D going over to the right side for no good reason, especially off faceoffs at center ice. In Genesis they usually stay in position better I've noticed.

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I remember reading threads about '93 for SNES being horrible as it was a poor port job from the Genesis version. I also believe SNES wasn't around for '92.

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One thing that Gens has over SNES is the goddamn press Y and instantly get up (and hook your opponent) from a check thing. I absolutely HATE that glitch in SNES, it's maddening to lay a guy out with a nice hit only to have him instantly levitate, hook you, and you lose the puck. I can't believe the programmers let the glitch make it into the final version. If you're not familiar with it then you probably haven't played much online since literally every player does it, you're pretty much at a disadvantage if you don't do it.

Also the goalie interference penalties are out of control in SNES, and can be complete BS when the opposing goalie leaves the crease to check you and you end up with a penalty.

100% agreed on both points. The other major glitch that I hate in SNES is when penalties are turned off (like in Puck Dynasty) and they still call penalty shots. That's super annoying and makes no sense at all.

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SNES '94

Yeah, I've got a 40 Def awareness Left Defensemen in Puck Dynasty that, on faceoff as noted by BOK, skates off to the right side, even pushing the other defender out of position, both ending up against the wall, and creating a landing pad in front of my goalie for anyone who wants to come in.

More times than not, I'm able to use the L or R button to grab one of the two clowns & correct it before it becomes a goal.

And, I also agree w/ BOK, that I find the hard checking matches to be entertaining. I've also found that the faster teams, aka Vancouver, can find spots to run & hide & move the puck along, and avoid the uber check fests.

That kind of alludes more to Northway's reference of puzzle solving in SNES, which becomes necessary to avoid a monster mash style bloody middle of the ice.

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Penalty shots really highlight how gay the goalie is in SNES though.

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I remember reading threads about '93 for SNES being horrible as it was a poor port job from the Genesis version.

Yes, it looks like they just took the sega version and tried to replicate it on the SNES. The problem is that the systems use different hardware, so code techniques that are fast on one system may be slow on another. Terrible frame rate, only one sound can play at once, just generally terrible. Also I think someone somewhere said they only had 2 weeks to do it or something like that, in which case, it's pretty amazing.. but still terrible :P

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One thing that Gens has over SNES is the goddamn press Y and instantly get up (and hook your opponent) from a check thing. I absolutely HATE that glitch in SNES, it's maddening to lay a guy out with a nice hit only to have him instantly levitate, hook you, and you lose the puck. I can't believe the programmers let the glitch make it into the final version. If you're not familiar with it then you probably haven't played much online since literally every player does it, you're pretty much at a disadvantage if you don't do it.

Also the goalie interference penalties are out of control in SNES, and can be complete BS when the opposing goalie leaves the crease to check you and you end up with a penalty.

All that being said, SNES > GENS easy, but keep in mind this is coming from an extremely biased SNES 94 player who's been playing it since the day it came out. Gens just has too much of an arcade vibe and the skating/passing is so much more "loose" feeling as opposed to the tight SNES controls. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter though, it's just awesome that so many people still play each version and that we're all part of such a great community.

The get up bug is a huge bug, I dont use it when playing against the computer but it must be frustrating when playing against a human opponent who is skilled with this and you refuse to do it (or do not know how to do it properly). An agreement or banning this in competitions might be the solution. On the other hand, some people really like it and enjoy it so its a matter of taste. It makes some people happy at least :)

Interference penalties can be changed from 2 mins to zero. I already posted info about this in some thread, I would like to know other SNES players' opinion about this. Seems like no one cares and when I found this I felt like an inventor of the wheel :D

100% agreed on both points. The other major glitch that I hate in SNES is when penalties are turned off (like in Puck Dynasty) and they still call penalty shots. That's super annoying and makes no sense at all.

I like that penalty shots are called with penalites turned off. It's like turning off yellow/red cards in a football (soccer) video games. Cards are disabled but free kicks and penalty kicks are still a part of the game.

Icing is an infraction too and it is called when penalties are off.

For me its +.

Edited by DominikJagr

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Interference penalties can be changed from 2 mins to zero. I already posted info about this in some thread, I would like to know other SNES players' opinion about this. Seems like no one cares and when I found this I felt like an inventor of the wheel :D

Haha, I think this is actually cool. I know a lot of players really dislike the amount of interference penalties called in SNES, so perhaps this may make its way into a future league. I'm not sure people consider it a bug that needed to be fixed though. Either way, it's an awesome find!

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There are some cons though:

1. It can be abused by a coach (using this to avoid confusion, coach=human player, players=players in the game) who shoots the puck from his half and wants to avoid icing and face off in his def. zone so he hits the goalie (because the interference is still called and the game is moved to the neutral zone).

But:

a) the interference is not always called after the player hits the goalie so its a risk for him to hit the goalie instead of chasing the puck;

b ) when the player is so close to the goal line the coach probably will go after the puck with the player, instead of trying hitting the goalie, and keep his players in the attacking zone;

c) sometimes it's a delayed penalty and it looks weird when the goalie leaves his net and then no penalty is called, this happens rarely though, most of the interference pens are called when the goalie controls the puck or a player controlling the puck hits the goalie and the ref stops the game immediately.

After playing some games with interference off I will never play the original version again, this is much much better imo :)

Edited by DominikJagr

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My take Gens. There really is just one argument I can make for this. I started playing on PC with NHL Hockey and then NHL95 and they are pretty much the same engine as on the Genesis NHL94 version, it looks the same (ok, 95 had white ice and wider arena, but nhl hockey was exactly like this minus the manual goalie plus more 5hole stinkers and pass shots from a little farther diagnol angle with fast players). This pretty much solves it for me, this also gaps PC players together with the Gens players and you could argue there could be a bigger "audience" for that version. Snes just feels completely different and doesn't even look that much the same, also the physics seem different. If I played with SNES earlier, surely the vote would be different as well.

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