Toronto Live Tournament for September 2015

[kylewat]

as to the comment about tournaments and by their very nature not a series. The only professional tournaments are done in series format except Football and Soccer.

Hockey

Baseball

Basketball

Tennis

I don't know how many stations there will be. True. I would say that my math is sound though. I also proposed doing a 10 min period which was also criticized for length. I was just trying to provide a rational framework for how long proposed formats would take. Also my math works with 11-12 minute games as I use 15 min, and for best of 5 series a full hour. The best of 5 series would be shorter in most every instance as they are unlikely to go to 5 regularly.

I don't know tecmo bowl, but it seems like the length of their tournaments are good as in they take a full entire day to compete. This has a chance to be a defining day for the community, and an international crowd is expected. I think the one downside of a best of 5 is that it will allow some players only to have one opponent which is suboptimal. I therefore like round robin play to start.

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. I'm not going to dip into the format since, as I mentioned earlier, there's a preference for it but until we know how many stations can be setup, and how many people will be there, we wont really know for certain what it will look like.

I actually reached out to Josh, one of Tecmo Madison's creators, several weeks ago. He's been very helpful in answering questions. Having said that, I'm not sure why I didn't think to reach out to Segathon, he's the bud who's the best of both worlds (participating in large video game tournament and organizing his own tournaments). Okay if I pick your brain on occasion bud?

But I will say that it will be a smooth running tournament, I guarantee!

Can you say whose preferences?

Edited April 17, 2015 by kylewat

[smozoma]

When it comes to best-of-n, I think there's no point, because you're better off just playing against more people and having a double or triple elimination. Best-of-n should only be used at the very end to cut down on luck factor in the finals / final-four.

Same with 10-minute periods. If you're outmatched, it's just going to be a huge drag going 20+ real minutes instead of ~12. Maybe use 10s at the end (though I'd prefer more games than longer games).

Also, doing best-of-n will create timing uncertainties.

[smozoma]

I think I would break it up into a bunch of smaller "Morning Mini-Tournaments," then the real-deal "Afternoon Mega-Tournament."

The morning tourneys could be good for getting random people who didn't know there was a tourney happening but are at the Hall or walking by on the street. Small prizes for Morning mini-tourney results. No commitment to have to play in the Afternoon mega-tourney.

Results of the morning tourneys are used to rank people for the Afternoon Mega-Tourney. If good players take off, we just take the next-best-ranked players. Or we could simply have a few "I'm only here for the morning" brackets, while the others are for qualifying for the Mega-Tourney.

By knowing ahead-of-time how many players we'll allow into the Mega-Tourney, we are able to plan the format better ahead-of-time rather than making it up closer to the date when we know how many participants there are.

[smozoma]

It'll be important to have a rule to prevent the "hiding behind your own net to protect a lead" fiasco that happened to Brutus in the Chicago(?) tourney. Something like a shot clock. Could be done using the instant-replay function, if you've been holding the puck in your zone for a full replay time (20s?), you get +1.1 goals against or something (the .1 to prevent a tie).

[halifax]

It'll be important to have a rule to prevent the "hiding behind your own net to protect a lead" fiasco that happened to Brutus in the Chicago(?) tourney. Something like a shot clock. Could be done using the instant-replay function, if you've been holding the puck in your zone for a full replay time (20s?), you get +1.1 goals against or something (the .1 to prevent a tie).

I would want to do a little bit more research (in-game testing) on this. In brutuskhan's case, they were playing with line changes so the players were dead, making it harder to get the puck and by the time he got the puck he couldn't do much with it. With no line changes, this will be much less likely to occur having your best players out there all the time at full energy. With the shot clock, that would seem like dragging things out. Going back to it everytime to instant replay just to check and count the seconds. I wouldn't want a score to have a .1 on it either, but I understand what your point was.

If this really is an issue, we could look at inputting an attack zone rule. You need to have X number seconds of attack zone in order to have the win validated. That would be easier to regulate by checking the stats at the end of the game, and less time consuming for tournament efficiency.

[halifax]

Can you say whose preferences?

http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16717-toronto-live-tournament-at-the-hockey-hall-of-fame-for-september-2015/?p=146656

[segathon]

Contact me any time Halifax!

Josh is a guru, listen to him. I thought I was pretty smart at running a tourney and then saw Tecmo Madison and was blown away by how well it was run.

At the tecmo tournies there are a ton of games played the night before at the bar since they preset up, and at hotels till the wee hours of the night. Maybe an NHL94.com tourney at the hotel the night before is in order?

It's really more about the camaraderie and talking about the game and watching the final playoff games then playing a ton....at least for me.

Here's a great write up by a tecmoer Hoigaard who runs an NYC tourney about the tourney experience

The Comprehensive Guide to Being a Madison Tecmo Rookie

Hello. If you're reading this, you're likely signed up for Madison Tecmo XI: Apocalipps Now. Congrats. Many of you have played in this grand championship before, but there are plenty who have not. For those who have not, here are bits and pieces of collected wisdom for anybody making their debut. Before we get to the point by point gibberish, this needs to be said-

You're not going to win the tournament.

Seriously man. I know you're good and I respect that. But you're not going to win the tournament.

But, but, but, but... No. You're not going to win the tournament.

I cannot stress this enough. You're not going to win the tournament. On the morning of Tecmo XI, there are probably 225 or so (give or take) of the 256 contests whom you could look in the eyes as they arrive and tell them with a straight face "You have absolutely no shot to win this thing." (And that's not me trash-talking by any stretch. Believe me, I'm very firmly one of those 225 guys on the outside). What I've found in my X number of years in this tourney is that the guys who come in truly believing they'll be crowned champion, despite never having played in Madison (let alone another tourney), tend to be the jerks that everyone remembers. I've always believed that we will never see an unknown or first-timer come in off the street and win this tourney. If you're making your debut and you're psyching yourself up and dreaming of raising the trophy, the faster you get that out of your head, the faster you'll actually enjoy the experience.

"The experience" is the key phrase here. Outside of those 20-30 guys who could conceivably win the tourney, the real draw of Madison is the experience of it. Until you see a swarm of 400+ people surrounding 30+ televisions for 12 hours, you can't yet appreciate the electricity or the IMMENSE PRESSURE of playing in these games (this isn't you and Smitty from college drinking a 12er and playing a 7 game series on a Wednesday. Your heart will be pumping from the moment you arrive). For those of us who can't win, there's a list of 5 "Goals" you should follow on March 7:

1) Have fun. There are 256 pretty cool guys (give or take who all love playing the same game that have gathered together. Embrace that. Talk to them. Buy someone a drink, chat about strategy, past tournaments, yadda yadda yadda. The most important thing you should take away from Madison when you wake up on Sunday was "Damn, that was a lot of fun."

2) Pay attention. So, you're a rookie. You're not going to win (have I mentioned that yet?). But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to walk away from the tournament as a better player. When you're not playing, watch other games. Examine the playbooks people use. Keep a vague tally of matchups you see called that make you go "Hmmm, interesting. I may try that one." See how guys hit hot routes on called plays. Watch some of the better defensive players in the tournament and pay attention to who they use on defense and the angles they use to stop plays. If you liked how some guy played and want to emulate their style, wait until some point in the day when you see them not deep in conversation and then introduce yourself. Tell them you admire their play. Pick their brains, ask questions. Don't get clingy (nobody likes a tagalong), but use those 12 hours of Tecmo to take in as much advice (and booze) as possible.

(Notice how the "Goals" haven't yet mentioned anything about your own gameplay?)

3) Win a game. This should be the base goal of every player in the tourney. Win a game. 25% of the field will go 0-2. If you win a game as a rookie, you should walk away from the day feeling proud, regardless of how the rest of your tourney played out.

4) Win 2 games. So you won a game. Nice job. Think about what worked for you in that game and what didn't. Make an adjustment and try to win a 2nd game. I mentioned 25% of the field will go 0-2. Important to note that another 25% will go 1-2. That means if you can win 2 games, you finished ahead of 50% of the field. That's nothing to scoff at for a first timer. It's a huge deal, actually. Walk around with your head held high.

5) Make the bracket. You have to go either 3-0 or 3-1 to make the final 64. Assume that roughly 40-45 of those spots can be written in pen (we all know who they are), so that leaves between 19 and 24 or so spots truly up for grabs. A large bulk of those will be claimed by guys who don't have the capacity to win the whole thing, but have previous Madison experience, so they overcame the intimidation to make the cut. If you can claim one of those last remaining spots as a rookie, you need to be very, very proud of what you accomplished.

If you don't make the bracket, who cares. Stick around and watch the games, make friends, enjoy the atmosphere.

6) Win your own "Super Bowl." This goal falls under both Pool Play and Bracket Play. The 225 of us who cannot win the entire tournament have to focus on smaller, step-by-step battles. We won't make the championship, but there's a really good chance you are going to play someone who's in that elite category. That's your Super Bowl. That's the big one. If you can knock a big name out, man, who gives a s**t if you win it all at that point, ya know? You ruined so-and-so's day! You're a giant killer! A couple years ago I faced off against Chris Vogt in the opening round of 64. I KNEW that was my Super Bowl. I played that game like a motherfucker and came up 4 pts short. But I felt good afterwards (mostly because Chris is a solid human being and that made for a really fun game), because I got a chance to go heads-up with a big name and I took him to the wire.

We all know who some of the big fish are, so no need to name names and start little turf wars about who is "a name" and who isn't. That's not the point. The point is you'll just KNOW when you're about to go up against a monster. That's your Super Bowl. Embrace it.

7) The last and final goal, Don't be a jerk. Tecmo is a Gentleman's Game. This isn't the Madden Nation tour bus on ESPN from a few years ago where guys swing their dicks in each others' faces after scores. Celebrate properly when something good happens, don't flip out when something bad happens. That's Tecmo. We've all been there. Shake hands after the game and move on. Have fun. Both in playing the game and enjoying the surroundings. In past years, the Herd Mentality of the collective group can tell who the jerks are. Don't be one of them.

Hopefully this all helps and doesn't come off as too preachy. Just know that, as a rookie, the experience and atmosphere is the biggest thing you'll take away from this. I started playing in this tournament many years ago when I was still a Milwaukee/Chicago guy. I've lived in New York for 3 years and have gone back every single year. Not because I think my name can be etched in the Hall of Champions, but because it's fun as hell. Hopefully you'll walk out of the Badger Bowl on Saturday evening feeling the same way.

[smozoma]

I would want to do a little bit more research (in-game testing) on this. In brutuskhan's case, they were playing with line changes so the players were dead, making it harder to get the puck and by the time he got the puck he couldn't do much with it. With no line changes, this will be much less likely to occur having your best players out there all the time at full energy. With the shot clock, that would seem like dragging things out. Going back to it everytime to instant replay just to check and count the seconds. I wouldn't want a score to have a .1 on it either, but I understand what your point was.

If this really is an issue, we could look at inputting an attack zone rule. You need to have X number seconds of attack zone in order to have the win validated. That would be easier to regulate by checking the stats at the end of the game, and less time consuming for tournament efficiency.

I know hiding the puck behind the net has been used at least once in online league play, apparently it's quite tough to steal the puck back, even without line changes, because (I think this is how it works?) most of your guys leave the zone, so the opponent has plenty of passing options in order to escape you. But testing it out is a good idea in case there actually is some technique that can be used to flush them out.

Attack zone will not catch the case where someone gets the lead with 3 minutes to go, then turtles behind their net until the end of the game.

Instead of using instant replay, we could just record the game (with a phone/camera), and the player can make an objection during the game, then we go back and look at the recording and see if there was a valid infraction.

[Brutus]

I say go back to allowing the punch to your opponent's nads to prevent this tactic.

Also, I forgot something.

I own the rights to nhl94tourney.com .

If you guys want to use it for this tourney, let me know. I'm not currently using it.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Brutus

[halifax]

I think I would break it up into a bunch of smaller "Morning Mini-Tournaments," then the real-deal "Afternoon Mega-Tournament."

The morning tourneys could be good for getting random people who didn't know there was a tourney happening but are at the Hall or walking by on the street. Small prizes for Morning mini-tourney results. No commitment to have to play in the Afternoon mega-tourney.

Results of the morning tourneys are used to rank people for the Afternoon Mega-Tourney. If good players take off, we just take the next-best-ranked players. Or we could simply have a few "I'm only here for the morning" brackets, while the others are for qualifying for the Mega-Tourney.

By knowing ahead-of-time how many players we'll allow into the Mega-Tourney, we are able to plan the format better ahead-of-time rather than making it up closer to the date when we know how many participants there are.

I feel pretty strongly that this will be a morning to late evening. Just to clarify a thought you made, the day qualifying tournament will be at a different venue(pub or something else), the evening will be at the HHOF for the qualifiers.

It's probable that we will have to cap the number of participants. What that number is, I'm not sure yet. There will obviously be more genesis stations than SNES. If I went by online participation since day one, we're probably looking at a 60%(GENS)-40%(SNES) participation ratio.

[halifax]

Contact me any time Halifax!

Josh is a guru, listen to him. I thought I was pretty smart at running a tourney and then saw Tecmo Madison and was blown away by how well it was run.

At the tecmo tournies there are a ton of games played the night before at the bar since they preset up, and at hotels till the wee hours of the night. Maybe an NHL94.com tourney at the hotel the night before is in order?

It's really more about the camaraderie and talking about the game and watching the final playoff games then playing a ton....at least for me.

Here's a great write up by a tecmoer Hoigaard who runs an NYC tourney about the tourney experience

Thanks bud. Yeah, Josh has been great, very detailed individual.

I know that is been mentioned that some of the guys will get together for a 2v2 tournament the night before. So there'll be some money thrown around there no doubt.

That was a great post by the guy, a nice read for everyone.

[CamKneely]

If there's a 2on2 tournament, I'm definitely in even if I get stuck between borders like Tom Hanks in The Terminal. It's so much easier to strategize when you're in the same room as your partner, that's a big reason why me, Bo and Carse won a bunch of Winter Classic games together.

[smozoma]

I feel pretty strongly that this will be a morning to late evening. Just to clarify a thought you made, the day qualifying tournament will be at a different venue(pub or something else), the evening will be at the HHOF for the qualifiers.

Yep, for sure . It was just easier to refer to them as Morning and Afternoon.

I went back through the topic and realized that basically everything I said had already been said/covered

(And I think you mean "tournament" not "qualifiers" for the last word quoted above!)

[kingraph]

100% having a 2v2 tourney. Either the night before if we get enough heads, or somehow have it on the side during the main tourney.

[smozoma]

I think it would be great to have a 2v2 setup at the tourney, for visibility. Would be great for getting people into participating online.

But I'm not sure about the legal situation, since it's a hacked version.

[Brutus]

I think as long as you aren't trying to sell or distribute the hacked version, then a tourney of a hacked game is legal.

[kgman]

i think the cheapest option is hostel http://www.hostelworld.com/hosteldetails.php/The-Clarence-Park/Toronto/71032?dateFrom=2015-09-11&dateTo=2015-09-13&sc_sau=avdc&sc_pos=5

location is decent.....walkable to HHOF

[HABS]

Don't see any legal issues arising. For a game that is over 20 years old, nobody is going to pursue us with lawyers.

The key is we aren't selling copies of 2on2. If that was the case maybe.

[halifax]

I know hiding the puck behind the net has been used at least once in online league play, apparently it's quite tough to steal the puck back, even without line changes, because (I think this is how it works?) most of your guys leave the zone, so the opponent has plenty of passing options in order to escape you. But testing it out is a good idea in case there actually is some technique that can be used to flush them out.

Attack zone will not catch the case where someone gets the lead with 3 minutes to go, then turtles behind their net until the end of the game.

Instead of using instant replay, we could just record the game (with a phone/camera), and the player can make an objection during the game, then we go back and look at the recording and see if there was a valid infraction.

The more I think about it, this has happened to me maybe once or twice in the hundreds of online games I've played. We don't need a hard fast rule. There will be a "referee" monitoring the games to ensure fair play.

A fair play rule put in place just advising guys not to do this (or unnecessary in game pausing etc). We'd just ask guys to stop doing it, or be penalized in some manner, giving the puck to the other team, replay of period/game or whatever.

[halifax]

I say go back to allowing the punch to your opponent's nads to prevent this tactic.

Also, I forgot something.

I own the rights to nhl94tourney.com .

If you guys want to use it for this tourney, let me know. I'm not currently using it.

Thanks for the offer bud. Mikey has registered another domain for the tournament. I'll let him unveil it when the time comes.

[halifax]

It's so much easier to strategize when you're in the same room as your partner, that's a big reason why me, Bo and Carse won a bunch of Winter Classic games together.

Who's the odd man out for the tourney?

[halifax]

I think it would be nice to have the 2v2 tourney the night before. Might be able to do a bit of pre-registration at that time.

[jer_33]

If there are any plans for evening play - would be nice to snack and drink while we play. Bar/Restaurant/Hotel poolside??

"We" meaning those that are attending, if they are able to attend, no promises.

[McMikey]

UPDATE!

Ok folks we have been working hard to make this event epic!

1) I have hired a promotions company to handle all the nuts and bolts of the event. They will be working on booking the location and getting sponsors. Also they will provide almost anything we need in terms of the event.

2) There is a high chance we will be holding the event at the bar Real Sports right next to the Air Canada Centre. In one of there sections they have TVs in each booth. There is a total of 14 booths with TV's and much more TV's around to use as well. So depending on the split of SNES/GENS we can have a lot of games at once. The Hall of Fame has some disadvantages and more then likely because of the size of the event we will need our location that we can have all day.

3) Darrell (Aka halifax) will be in charge of the gaming side of the tournament (Setting up the brackets and the flow of the game playing)

4) I will Have enough SNES and Gens systems so everyone just has to show up. The final games will be played on a massive TV in the centre of the bar.

5) There will be VIP Area for Sponsors and Players to hangout. We will have NHL Alumni at the event to hang out and watch some gaming.

Thats about it for know, I'll keep you guys updated as more stuff comes out.

[smozoma]

We will have NHL Alumni at the event to hang out and watch some gaming.

Cooooooooool

Gotta raid my hockey card drawer.

The booths are neat, although I suspect people will want to pull a couple chairs to the end of the table in order to be looking at the TV straight-on. The booths will also separate the game sound -- perfect!

I was worried that the number of TVs would be the limiting factor, so 14+ is great!

I can't tell in the tiny photos, but the coaxial cable connector is exposed?

[CamKneely]

Who's the odd man out for the tourney?

Haha it might just be me and Witt yelling at each other this time.

[halifax]

1) I have hired a promotions company to handle all the nuts and bolts of the event. They will be working on booking the location and getting sponsors. Also they will provide almost anything we need in terms of the event.

2) There is a high chance we will be holding the event at the bar Real Sports right next to the Air Canada Centre. In one of there sections they have TVs in each booth. There is a total of 14 booths with TV's and much more TV's around to use as well. So depending on the split of SNES/GENS we can have a lot of games at once. The Hall of Fame has some disadvantages and more then likely because of the size of the event we will need our location that we can have all day.

3) Darrell (Aka halifax) will be in charge of the gaming side of the tournament (Setting up the brackets and the flow of the game playing)

4) I will Have enough SNES and Gens systems so everyone just has to show up. The final games will be played on a massive TV in the centre of the bar.

5) There will be VIP Area for Sponsors and Players to hangout. We will have NHL Alumni at the event to hang out and watch some gaming.

Thats about it for know, I'll keep you guys updated as more stuff comes out.

1) Great stuff bud! I have a few things that I'll follow up with you later on that I think would be kick ass.

2) Same here. we can chat about how many consoles will work for number of participants.

3) Smoz, raph and others have provided some valuable input. Thanks to them as well.

4) BOOM!

5) The NHL alumni will be just plain awesome.

[Scribe99]

Keep in mind, on some newer TVs there is lag when hooking up older consoles. They are built for CRT monitors. I don't know exactly how or when it happens, maybe Smozoma can chime in. It may have something to do with the refresh rate.

I know that it happens on my plasma.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/144-nintendo/1010374-older-nintendo-consoles-hdtv-lag.html

Edited April 23, 2015 by Scribe99

[Scribe99]

More information http://www.avsforum.com/forum/143-general-gaming-help/558125-hdtvs-video-game-lag-problem-solution.html:

fubarduck's HDTV / Video Game Lag FAQ version 2.5

Introduction
First of all, keep in mind that this is not a FAQ about HDTV. If you do not understand the basics about HDTV, this FAQ may be hard to understand so I would recommend checking out an HDTV-related FAQ first. Once you're comfortable with that, read this FAQ and you ought to understand quite well how to prevent or correct any lag-related problems. Also, while much of what I post has been tested and confirmed personally, some of my information only comes from what I have only heard from owners of other HDTVs. As such, I will constantly be updating this FAQ as new information surfaces.

Part I

Why do HDTVs lag on video games?
HDTVs typically only have one or two "native" resolutions. A set's native resolution is the resolution that it displays on the screen. This means that sometimes, the HDTV must "scale" the resolution you input in order to display it.

On regular, non-HD televisions, there is only one native resolution, which is 480i (240p). Whenever you play a video game on a standard definition TV, the game console always outputs 480i/240p and the TV displays it as 480i/240p. No need for any scaling, so response time is always normal and accurate.

However, because HDTVs NEVER have 480i/240p (Standard Definition) and usually not even 480p (Enhanced Definition) as a native resolution, that means that any video game console we have that can't output a High Definition signal is likely to lag on any HDTV display. It isn't that it is impossible to scale an image with no lag; HDTVs simply put the emphasis on image quality, which takes some time to process, rather than speed. Some newer HDTVs now come equipped with a "Game Mode" to speed up the scaling process and reduce or eliminate lag on the set. You can read more about "Game Mode" later into the FAQ.

So just how bad is the lag?
Although there is no real way to measure, and the numbers vary based on the HDTV, the average HDTV seems to lag roughly 6 frames, or 1/10th of a second when processing 480i material. DLP HDTVs seem to be a bit worse, some people claiming lag up to 15 frames, or 1/4th of a second. If these numbers will not affect your gaming habit, don't worry about it too much. Casual gamers probably will not notice a lag this small; you can stop reading and get back to gaming if that's the case. The most affected gamers will be those who play ultra-time sensitive games such rhythm games, sports games with swinging/kicking meters, shooters, or fighting games. If you fall into one of these categories, please read on.

UPDATE: There IS a way to measure HDTV Gaming Lag now. Guitar Hero II for PS2 and X360 has a built-in test under the video options, which measures lag in milliseconds. (~17ms = 1 frame)

I also recommend checking out this page started by another helpful AVS Forum member:
http://hdtvlag.googlepages.com/

Here, you can actually see someone who measured the problem very accurately with LCD HDTVs. The test on this site was done with 480i material.

Will my HDTV be affected by video game lag?
The greatest problem of video gaming lag occurs when playing 480i/240p (Standard Definition) games, but can also occur when playing 480p (Enhanced Definition) games. However, playing at a resolution of 480p (Enhanced Definition) or better typically eliminates most or all lag because the most strenuous process of scaling is the process of converting a 480i (interlaced) signal to a 480p (progressive) signal. The people that typically complain about lag even when playing in 480p (progressive) are DLP users, but in theory any HDTV that does not support 480p natively could still be affected. However, an HDTV signal should not experience lag on any HDTV.

As a rule of thumb, you should stay away from DLP sets if you plan on playing a lot of timing-sensitive video games.

So what resolution are my video games outputting?

Pre-PS2 game systems:
240p/480i (240p is the same scan rate as 480i and therefore experiences the same problems)

Playstation 2:
480i (most games), 480p (a few games)

Gamecube : 480i (a few games), 480p (most games)

X-Box: 480p (most games), 480i (a few games), 720p (a few games)

X-Box 360:
All X-Box and X-Box 360 games can be outputted to your choice of 480p, 1080i, or 720p.


These are the resolutions that video game systems can output. For a full list of what game supports what resolution, a good source is http://www.hdtvarcade.com.

What is the native resolution of my display?
CRT HDTVs usually have two native resolutions and sometimes only one. Those resolutions are typically 480p and 1080i. Sometimes, it is only 1080i. THERE ARE NO CRT HDTVS THAT CAN DISPLAY A NATIVE RESOLUTION OF 480i.

Plasma, LCD, and DLP HDTVs always have one native resolution. The native resolution is different for each set. Sometimes it's 720p, sometimes 1080i, sometimes 1080p, and sometimes something completely different.

Example Chart

Worst: You will notice lag.
Better: There is lag, but it may be an acceptable level for you.
Best: There is no lag.

Example 1 (TV: Samsung DLP with 720p native resolution)*
Worst: SNES Game (240p) --> Samsung DLP upscales to 720p --> Noticeable lag.
Worst: PS2 Game (480i) --> Samsung DLP upscales to 720p --> Noticeable lag.
Better: PS2 Game (480p) --> Samsung DLP upscales to 720p --> Fairly small lag.
Better: X-Box Game (480p) --> Samsung DLP upscales to 720p --> Fairly small lag.
Better: PS2 Game with Samsung DLP's Game Mode activated (480i) --> Fairly small lag.
Best: X-Box Game (720p) --> Samsung displays the image directly --> Small lag.
Best: X-Box 360 Game (720p) --> Samsung displays the image directly --> Small lag.

Example 2 (TV: Sony CRT HDTV with both 480p and 1080i native resolutions):
Better: SNES Game (240p) --> Sony CRT HDTV upscales to 480p --> Small lag.
Better: PS2 Game (480i) --> Sony CRT HDTV upscales to 480p --> Small lag.
Best: PS2 Game (480p) --> Sony CRT HDTV displays the image directly --> No lag.
Best: X-Box Game (480p) --> Sony CRT HDTV displays image directly --> No lag.
Best: X-Box Game (1080i) --> Sony CRT HDTV displays image directly --> No lag.

Example 3 (TV: Sony LCD with 1080p native resolution)
Worst: SNES Game (240p) --> Sony LCD upscales to 1080p --> Lag.
Worst: PS2 Game (480i) --> Sony LCD upscales to 1080p --> Lag.
Best: X-Box 360 game (720p) --> Sony LCD upscales to 1080p --> Small lag.
Better: Any game on any system with Game Mode activated (any resolution) --> Fairly small lag.

* Note that all Samsung DLPs pass the signal through its internal DCDi scaler which will result in lag even if you game at the TV's native resolution (Source: http://gear.ign.com/articles/744/744064p2.html)

The only way to completely avoid lag on any system is to only play games at a resolution in which your HDTV doesn't have to do any scaling.

As always, the BEST way to test for lag is to take your gaming set-up to your local electronics store and politely ask to test it on their HDTVs, which they shouldn't mind at all since you're a potential customer. Bring a time sensitive game, such as a fighting game, a rhythm game, or a golf/football game with a swinging/kicking meter. It's worth it to do a small trip to the store like this before you make such a large investment!

[segathon]

Awesome McMikey!