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Brutus

What would it cost to pay someone to program a better GENS?

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Brutus    45

Since the topic came up a few weeks back, the discussion of upgrading GENS drew interest from a few GENS players, as well as myself. The idea of pooling some community money to get a better emulator is one that would greatly upgrade this online experience.

I have ZERO idea what this project (if even do-able) would require in man hours, and as such, would be impossible for me to know what it would cost to hire someone to do it, even if at a discount by a community member.

Either way, the question is NOW out there. I'm sure if the price is not too unrealistic, we could find enough guys to chip in.

Anyone know first, IS THIS something that can be upgraded?

And, HOW MUCH time would that take?

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Seano7302    0

I'd have them do nose too.

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kingraph    136

We should write down a quick requirements list and submit it on one of the freelance sites. You'll get quotes from developers on how much it will cost. It's at least a starting point to guesstimate the cost and feasibility.

At the same time, if Kega is really a better emulator for you netplay, we should also look into that as well.

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smozoma    100

Yep, Raph's on the right track.

It's really dependent on the dev's skills and background, so you really can't guess, just gotta see what people think they can do.

Freelancers are hit-and-miss, though, from what I hear. Gotta structure the contract carefully so you're not sending money for no results, then you give up and have nothing to show for it.

Gotta make sure your requirements are clear, too, or this happens (see comic) http://blog.thingsdesigner.com/?/archives/354-The-infamous-software-designdevelopment-process-tree-swing-comic.html

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Premium    18

Check out GGPO.. It's a netplay with no lag through some sort of hack that removes input lag I believe. GGPO is used on FightCade (a website for online emulator gaming for arcade systems). Everyone online is welcome to spectate your game live and once the session has ended a video of the whole thing is uploaded instantly on the servers. You honestly never lag and you can chat in-game as well.

The creator is Tony Cannon (I think) and he's heavily involved in the fighting game community. He showed GGPO to Capcom and they use it now in some of their games, and it's widely regarded as the best netplay easily. Maybe we can try and contact him.

Back in 2012, Supercade (the predecessor to FightCade) had a couple of guys who liked my idea of adding NHL '94 and making it officially compatible with GGPO. I got a response (not from Tony Cannon) but I can't remember what it was. The website has shut down so I can't remember what was said.

EDIT: The FAQ explains what has to be done to add a new game.

DOUBLE EDIT: Sega Genesis (but not SNES :D) is actually a work in progress (says the creator of the emulator).

TRIPLE EDIT: I don't think it will be completed anytime soon because he is doing it in his spare time and probably does not have the motivation.

Edited by Premium

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TomKabs93    7

TRIPLE EDIT: I don't think it will be completed anytime soon because he is doing it in his spare time and probably does not have the motivation.

LET'S PAY THIS MAN TO GIVE HIM SOME MOTIVATION. GGPO is really really great

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Brutus    45

Plabber, forward me his info if you don't mind. I'm against the free lance site stuff, but I'm good w/ talking to someone who is doing work on the side and figuring out pricing. It's someone who knows directly what needs to be done, and just needs to find the right time/motivation. Anyhow, since I'd probably be putting up some of my own money plus trying to organize the rest of the donations, I'd want to talk to that person one on one.

As for freelancing, I went to scriptlance a few years back to get the NHL94 tourney site built, and the end result was a bunch of dudes who were Indian and didn't know/understand the idea of breaking down the save states and a video game results being uploaded, etc.

The language barrier was too much, so I chased a few of the American guys, but most were all strokes who take too many projects and rarely finish something like this w/out being top, top dollar type project.

I lost a little money on one of the American guys, but did get some of my work projects completed, but nothing of use for the tourney site. I've had other free lance experiences over the years. Whenever it's only web based code or flash stuff, graphics, the results can be good. IF it gets technical & requires something outside of the normal project they'd be doing, the free lancer rarely is setup right to complete the project, and fails to properly price it, and eventually drops it, regardless of if you paid or not, the ending is you don't get what you wanted built in the first place.

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Brutus    45

OMG, they have World Heroes!

I used to rule at that game at the Arcade w/ Bruce. My buddy always played Jane, w/ that long ass sword.

Once I found out you could throw counter someone in the air w/ Bruce, it brought putting someone in the corner to a whole new world.

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TomKabs93    7

OMG, they have World Heroes!

I used to rule at that game at the Arcade w/ Bruce. My buddy always played Jane, w/ that long ass sword.

Once I found out you could throw counter someone in the air w/ Bruce, it brought putting someone in the corner to a whole new world.

If you like that, you should get Ultra Street Fighter 4 for ps4. Even though I suck it's the best

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hnfoo    3

Kind of an old thread, but I find this interesting.

A good place to float this idea to at least find out the feasability, might be the r/emulation subredit. Most of the posts there are of the "how do I get emulator X to do such and such" variety, but I know a lot of devolopers hang-out there. Like some of the key MAME people, etc. They could probably steer you in the right direction and save you some time.

Is gens open source? I know that writing an emulator from scratch is a pretty monumental task, so I'm assuming this potential project would be some kind of fork off of an already existing emu?

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hnfoo    3

Gens is open source

Ah, OK, thanks. I thought so, but wasn't sure.

I just saw this neat writeup on how GGPO works:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/177508/The_lagfighting_techniques_behind_GGPOs_netcode.php

So...it sorta has an A.I. that predicts what you're going to do, based on what you've done previously?

It's the wee morning hours here, but I get the sense that there are many answers in this article, and it's concise and well written.

I'm out of my element here, but I wonder if this technique wouldn't work as well on a sports game? Seems as though, in human vs. human game of NHL 94', there would be so many variables - and you wouldn't do the same thing more than once, as opposed to a fighting game, where you might (combo patterns and the like).

I play a lot of old-school shmup type games, and one of the issues that comes up, when using emulators, is input lag. This is even just for offline play mind you. For example, say you press 'left', and it takes say 3 frames for your spaceship to move. Someone on the shmups forum (http://shmups.system11.org) made a special version of MAME that used some technique that knocked off a frame or two of delay. Something involving the computer drawing the sprite layer before a different layer, or vice versa, or something. There was a lot of controversey because this offended some of the MAME people. They maintained that these delays were part of the original games, and that if you tried to "fix" this, you were no longer playing the original game, which is something the MAME people care greatly about, as they should. They also didn't care for the accusation that MAME introduced extra lag. Many arguments were had.

Anyway, fighting games and shmups are probably the two genres of video games where input lag is seen as a major issue. And I know that on the shmups forum, there are a lof of emu, mame, and other tech wizards who obsess over single frames of input delay. I bet they could give advice too, and for free too.

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Premium    18

they did it!! lol. would be cool to test.

It's not on the site yet, but it's now supported on the emulator. It's supposed to be updated sometime in the future (not sure when).

Edited by Premium

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