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smozoma

King of 94 Tournament - Feedback / Improvements

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smozoma    84

I'm making this thread for feedback about the Tourney

Maybe there should be a King of 94 / Live Tournaments forum section?

The venue was awesome, Mikey did an amazing job procuring a location, sponsors / cool loot, film crew, advertising / media spots, and probably a ton of background stuff I would never even think of, making us all feel like stars for a day (swanky VIP section? CHECK!). Halifax's organization and management was top-notch, giving us a great format, consulting with lots of guys about format (I think chaos, raph, and myself especially?), keeping things moving when they could have gone out of control with 128 people trying to play at the same time, and again probably loads of things I don't know about. I feel like Chaos did a lot, but I don't know what, he does it all quietly and efficiently. All the props for the spreadsheet caught me by surprise, it took long to make but wasn't super complicated (although the logic for the finals was tricky), but thanks everyone :D

So..

What do you think went well?

What do you think went poorly?

What do you think could be improved?

Suggestions for running giant 94 tourneys in the future?

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IceStorm70    2

The coin toss winner didn't seem to get much of an advantage.

Option for next time, the winner gets to pick the 2 teams and and get home ice.

Separate check-in and score reporting tables.

Different colored name tags based on group A,B,C etc

Other than that, flawless.

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chaos    25

The coin toss winner didn't seem to get much of an advantage.

Option for next time, the winner gets to pick the 2 teams and and get home ice.

Separate check-in and score reporting tables.

Different colored name tags based on group A,B,C etc

Other than that, flawless.

I agree with all of this. I think coin toss winner should get home ice, he most likely gets the worst team out of the 2, at least give him home.

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Premium    18

Doesn't the winner of the coin toss choose the teams? This way you can shut down a cheeser by nullifying his or her ability to play with a great player.

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jer_33    15

Would have been nice to have the brackets and schedule on one of the larger screens.

Some thought on how to better find your opponents, lots of guys wandering aimlessly looking for their game.

Would have been cool to use the big screen in the VIP section for "feature matches" or the finals.

Minor things IMO, well-planned on all other fronts.

Just a thought that I'll throw out there, instead of picking both teams, make the first one random and allow the coin-toss winner to choose the 2nd team.

Cheers.

Edited by jer_33

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CoachMac    82

Start out with another stick tap to Mikey, Halifax, Smoz, all the film crew, the ref girls, etc...

It was excellent.

#1 I do agree about coin toss winner getting Home Ice.

The TSB format of choice of controller/direction matters much less than Home Ice in 94.

#2 Personally, i would have liked to see it held a little later in the Fall, like mid-October.

#3 The no show thing was a real bummer.

I had 3 in my group, but got lucky and never had to advance because of a no show.

Not sure what you can do about it.

Edited by CoachMac

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Premium    18

Would have been nice to have the brackets and schedule on one of the larger screens.

Some thought on how to better find your opponents, lots of guys wandering aimlessly looking for their game.

Would have been cool to use the big screen in the VIP section for "feature matches" or the finals.

Minor things IMO, well-planned on all other fronts.

Just a thought that I'll throw out there, instead of picking both teams, make the first one random and allow the coin-toss winner to choose the 2nd team.

Cheers.

Anaheim vs. Chicago

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jer_33    15

There was a no show in the final 16 for GENS, probably should have filled it with the next best player. KG, Sebe and Brutus all got a bye-win from that.

EDIT - let me add that I don't think the missing guy (Jeff N., 4th seeded D group) would have necessarily made it past any of those guys - but it was still one less game that these guys had to play to advance.

Edited by jer_33

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jer_33    15

Anaheim vs. Chicago

fine - except the opponent still gets to pick the team he/she wants, leaving you with anaheim.

The strategy that most guys went with was to just pick a couple of balanced teams - so if the first team is random, you'd pick a team of similar strength.

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kingraph    86

There SHOULDN'T be an advantage to the coin toss winner. Choosing the two teams is an advantage (you dictate the style of game), so giving home ice and choice of team to the coin flip winner is fair.

Ask TK, when AJ choice ANA/FLA (need to check).

Agree with Plabax above.

The initial clog when the tourney started was expected. So 2-3 people entering scores early would help. The timing of games was aggressive, and I like the idea of general groupings, and allowing people to just play when a console was free (which is what happened right through the night). Seems to run smoothly.

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IceStorm70    2

There SHOULDN'T be an advantage to the coin toss winner. Choosing the two teams is an advantage (you dictate the style of game), so giving home ice and choice of team to the coin flip winner is fair.

I like coin toss winner gets home Ice. Loser picks teams. Winner gets choice of the 2 teams.

I hated winning the toss because I knew I'd need to play on the road.

Not a big deal overall, just seemed like you won toss, you actually lost something. But I get dictating style of play perspective too.

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smozoma    84

What about coin toss winner picks first team. Loser picks 2nd team. Winner gets to be home OR swap teams. Maybe that's too easy for the 2nd guy, though, if he gauges the home/away advantages well.

Random for the 1st team is also cool, though.

And I agree with Raph, there shouldn't be an advantage to winning the toss, it's just a way to get things started. The goal is for the matchup to be equal.

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IceStorm70    2

I think there's advantages no matter how we do it.

What if toss winner picks home or picks teams. They're choice. If they pick teams they're road team. If they pick home them other coach selects two teams

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IceStorm70    2

What about coin toss winner picks first team. Loser picks 2nd team. Winner gets to be home OR swap teams. Maybe that's too easy for the 2nd guy, though, if he gauges the home/away advantages well.

Random for the 1st team is also cool, though.

And I agree with Raph, there shouldn't be an advantage to winning the toss, it's just a way to get things started. The goal is for the matchup to be equal.

Every toss winner would pick chi/det/van/Mtl so guessing games would be very uniform, little isles/pens games

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CoachMac    82

Agree with all of the above and there is not a perfect format.

Many TSB tourneys who we used for our model of picking teams now draw cards with fair match-ups on them.

I used this at my tourney at my house that AngryJay came to for TSB and 94 and it worked well.

Edited by CoachMac

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chaos    25

It was also slow in the beginning because there was an issue with the spreadsheet and scores couldn't be entered. This caused a slow down in the beginning, when the largest percentage of games were being played. Once that was taken care of, eventually we got back on schedule. Then there was a ton of time between the end of the afternoon groups and the raffles. Also, the next time we have a tournament, there probably won't be a documentary on it, so therefore some things should run smoother because of that.

I think the biggest issue was trying to find your opponents in the very beginning, when no one knew who was who. Maybe, we can have every station numbered, announce each matchup and assign a station to it, have a ref for every 2 or 3 stations, and have the refs be able to input the scores. This way, each group of guys will only be playing on 2 or 3 stations, they'll all be around each other so they know who is who, and the games will be done quicker.

I agree, I think the coin flip should be kept the way it is. There is no "perfect" way, and the way it was done worked well enough.

Overall, I thought it went pretty well except for the beginning snafu. And more importantly, I didn't really hear anyone complain, everyone was just happy to be there playing other dudes.

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CamKneely    0

I agree, everything was cool, but some slight adjustments could be made. The winner of the coin toss should get to pick if they want home OR away because some teams are better on the road. Icestorm agreed to a matchup I wanted if he had won the toss and could pick the teams, but I won the toss and wasn't allowed to pick the teams we had agreed on because I had already picked that matchup against someone else (I was winning the toss all day). That's kind of lame. Also, it was impossible to see the final rounds because everybody was crowing around the relatively small TVs, and the big screens definitely should've been used for that so that more people could view them.

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chaos    25

I agree, everything was cool, but some slight adjustments could be made. The winner of the coin toss should get to pick if they want home OR away because some teams are better on the road. Icestorm agreed to a matchup I wanted if he had won the toss and could pick the teams, but I won the toss and wasn't allowed to pick the teams we had agreed on because I had already picked that matchup against someone else (I was winning the toss all day). That's kind of lame. Also, it was impossible to see the final rounds because everybody was crowing around the relatively small TVs, and the big screens definitely should've been used for that so that more people could view them.

Yeah, the big TVs would have been better, but the guys complained that they had to look up at the big screen haha.

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CamKneely    0

I played on them, it was a bit of an adjustment yeah but it didn't bother me. Maybe because I'm used to getting crappy seats at the movies and having to strain my neck to look at 50-foot Anne Hathaway. If nothing else, there's surely a way to project a game being played on a small screen onto a bigger one?

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jer_33    15

I agree, everything was cool, but some slight adjustments could be made. The winner of the coin toss should get to pick if they want home OR away because some teams are better on the road. Icestorm agreed to a matchup I wanted if he had won the toss and could pick the teams, but I won the toss and wasn't allowed to pick the teams we had agreed on because I had already picked that matchup against someone else (I was winning the toss all day). That's kind of lame. Also, it was impossible to see the final rounds because everybody was crowing around the relatively small TVs, and the big screens definitely should've been used for that so that more people could view them.

The big TV in the VIP section would have been perfect, lots of room for the cameras and mics - lots of viewing area - and you could have had the players sitting in armchairs or on couches.

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aqualizard    38

I thought the whole affair was excellent. I give it an A-, but considering this was the first one, I am surprsied it went as smooth as it did.

I think you got these things right:

1. the venue
2. format/brackets seemed good... the best guys really did advance
3. coin flip arrangement seemed fair
4. the spreadsheet and having it automatically update and checkable online

These things could be improved

1.some sort of simple PA system, with a few announcements (like at 9:15, an announcnement saying "Let the games begin", and the odd "John Doe you are wanted on Genesis System #2 for a match")
2. I would have a couple community computers or even a whiteboard that shows the brackets as they change. It was hard using my phone to check things out and find my match ups because it is so damn small

Other
1. I noticed there were no referees for my games, and the rules said there would be? This wasn't a problem because they guys I played were cool/reasonable, so this was no biggie to me.

2. There should not be an ultimate winner, there should just be an SNES champ and a Genesis champ each year and that's that. (I think this was done for the movie this year, so if this tourney happens agina I hope there won't be the need for an overall winner.)

Edited by aqualizard

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TomKabs93    6

I definitely think the coin toss home/away thing should stay the same. Initially I agreed with what you guys were saying, that losing the toss is too much of an advantage. But then I played AJ and yeah, lost a close but frustrating anh/fla game. If he would have gotten home, as well as being able to choose two of the most skill-less teams, I think that would have been kinda unfair.

I learned so freaking much about the classic rom on Saturday. That was one thing I didn't even think of.

Give me another chance and I'm getting first place f you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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jer_33    15

2. There should not be an ultimate winner, there should just be an SNES champ and a Genesis champ each year and that's that. (I think this was done for the movie this year, so if this tourney happens agina I hope there won't be the need for an overall winner.)

Scrap the ultimate winner showdown, and figure out how a participant could compete on both systems. Perhaps the ultimate winner is decided upon points accumulated on both systems (or something like that).

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kylewat    3

I thought about this for a while, and I would rather generally have home ice than pick the teams.

That being said, I think the coin flip was a great comprimize and think giving home ice advantage and pick of the two teams is TOO big an advantage.

Now how could you change it and make it a bit more fair? The option of choosing sides. Basically instead of choosing teams, you choose a side. So I could elect home ice instead of picking the two teams.

In football, there are are generally three options. Kick, Receive and Defer. I am not suggesting we add defer, which means you get the opposite on the next coin flip, but rather a more direct comparison would be choosing to Kick.

So if I play the other opponent again I would not suddenly get to pick the teams, but rather he would have the option of "choosing sides", or "choosing teams."

AJ brought this up when he joked can I defer to me in our first game, and I thought about it long and hard and this was the best solution I could come up with. It is a minor tweak. I liked the format but very much preferred being home and getting my pick of two teams than being away and picking the matchup. That being said, against Raph, I would have rather picked the teams as I thought about what plays into my style more than his.

Also, see all my other critiques about the format. They all remain valid.

I had a great time thanks all.

I think the biggest issue was trying to find your opponents in the very beginning, when no one knew who was who. Maybe, we can have every station numbered, announce each matchup and assign a station to it, have a ref for every 2 or 3 stations, and have the refs be able to input the scores. This way, each group of guys will only be playing on 2 or 3 stations, they'll all be around each other so they know who is who, and the games will be done quicker.

My suggestion has always been a next up, so maybe put a light or something that would show an available station and have a monitor going with the next match up, then dispatch them to the open station. You have to be there when the station becomes available.

This would maximize console usage time. It might be more logistically challenging, but I think it would make everyone be engaged and put more emphasis on quick turnover of games.

Edited by kylewat

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kylewat    3

I definitely think the coin toss home/away thing should stay the same. Initially I agreed with what you guys were saying, that losing the toss is too much of an advantage. But then I played AJ and yeah, lost a close but frustrating anh/fla game. If he would have gotten home, as well as being able to choose two of the most skill-less teams, I think that would have been kinda unfair.

I learned so freaking much about the classic rom on Saturday. That was one thing I didn't even think of.

Give me another chance and I'm getting first place f you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

similarly you can pick the great teams who have strong home advantage without any hesitation.

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IceStorm70    2

Ya I was suggesting toss winner gets home ice. Loser picks two teams.

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kingraph    86

If anyone can show me exactly what "strong home ice advantage" or "weak road ice disadvantage" does, please share. We should be careful not to overthink this.

We now have a tournament full of data, so let's see how home/away did. Either smozoma or myself will do this...I'll connect with him separately.

I DO like the idea of having the coin flip winner be able to choose teams or choose home ice. Keeps the same system, but allows people who like playing at home keep that choice.

And LOL @ TK. One regret of mine is not playing exis vs TK or Seth as I didn't match up with them in the tourney. Love those guys and will definitely make sure to do so next year (or whenever).

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IceStorm70    2

I DO like the idea of having the coin flip winner be able to choose teams or choose home ice. Keeps the same system, but allows people who like playing at home keep that choice.

.

Best idea imo.

Ya sucks didn't get chance to Exi with TK and King.

Seth and I got one in during the tourney.

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TomKabs93    6

I was thinking about that raph, that I didn't get to exi you at all. Same with a lot of you guys. So many people it's impossible to do everything. Even talking to everyone is hard, so many people I ended up just talking to for a couple mins total. It was all so overwhelming in a wonderful way.

Onto the thing about home advantages. Smoz was telling me yesterday that he's not quite sure what it does, cuz he has some old notes that don't make sense anymore. He's gonna look into it he says, but he thinks that home advantage gives a boost to stickhandling, shot accuracy, and (maybe he says) passing. I forget what he said about road advantage, but yeah. Think about your game with kg where you lost 8-1 in buffalo. Sure you had detroit, but buffalo has strong home advantage.

Man I wrote out all the home and away advantages, then I didn't even use them once when picking teams in tourney :( I am an idiot lol

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