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Hey guys, this thread is a place to discuss ratings in a friendly manner. For the next update of the ROM (for season 2) I will gladly take feedback and make changes accordingly. Not every piece of feedback will necessitate a change, but let's talk about it :)

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From Depch via AIM (this post actually spurred me to create this thread, so thanks Depch!). I'd love more feedback like this!

Depch
I have some feedback on a few teams an their players. This does not mean a demand of a change, but as a constructive feedback for future maybe or something to help you catch your eye on. And this only reflects my views and my experiences on the players. I know it is a hard work as I have done this in newer NHL's myself and you just can't make it perfect at once. As a finn my views are more indepth towards them. :)


Minnesota:

M.Koivu - I think his offensive awareness should be 4 and he might even be a skater with a speed of 3. Guy is strong as an ox and has a great will to make things happen. Passing should be dropped from 5 to 4 as well. His shot is not powerfull, but it is relatively accurate and can backhand it to the roof with ease in shootouts.

M.Granlund - He can make very slick plays and should have offensive awareness of 5, very aware of surroundings, but it has not translated to high points yet, guy is still young though. As of late coach Yeo has trusted him in the end of the games as well when the team is leading and taking a more defensive role as well. He had good defence in finnish league as well and was able to shut down players, I think def awareness should be a 4. Passing 5 for sure, makes nice backhand passes and some really unsuspected ditches around.

E.Haula - high top end speed, should maybe have a 5 speed. I know the feel of not "everyone" being able to have a speed of 5, but that's how the NHL today is, a speedier game. If anything maybe the smoz scale of 1-15 instead of 1-6 could come to use in future.

J.Brodin - Guy is a tremdendeous skater with great stick work. I would up his agility to 5 and stick 5. A bit of a mold of a young Lidström. A gem in the Swedish hockey youth.
Florida:

A.Barkov - Guy is a beast and should be rated above Bjugstad. He is their shutdown center and consistently has kept them on low score. He is in the mold of Kopitar already. Was ~PPG ever since Jags came in to teach the youth how to play. Awarenesses maybe 4/5 off or 5/6 def and passing 5. Hubs-Barky-Jags is one of the most fun lines to watch. Hope he comes back from another freak injury fast. :)

J.Jokinen guy is a very solid player and does what the coach wants you to do, but defensive awareness 5 has maybe been gracious, I would drop it down to 4.
Barky actually got injured on one of his defensive means, he was blocking shots and got a hard shot to the hand, they'll propably instruct him to not be so keen on doing that stuff in regular season :P
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In conclusion of the Michalek saga, I went to talk to the Ottawa Senators skating coach in person with the goal of finding out whether Milan Michalek, as of today, is a fast skater or not.

The final verdict was that he is.

Edited by Premium
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Nice, congratulations. I'd guess that 96% of skaters in the NHL are "fast."

Yeah, and you put Michalek (in the top half of the 96%) in the 4% that are not. Don't you understand what I'm getting at?

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Michalek actually did win fastest skater on the Sens just a year or two ago. Maybe apply the Randy Wood to guys like him, 3/5, if he doesn't use the speed well in reality / has a bad "first step" :)

Domi was the fastest Leaf at least one year, though.

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Just a thought, since we are discussing ratings.

Instead of trying to match up everyone's visual skill set to what you would envision their '94 counterpart to be, I'd go more like this, but again, it's just my thoughts, and they can be ignored.

You take a look at real life, and see how many people are "elite", and make it so that only that many people have "elite" '94 skills. The rest need to be tapered down to "fit" this formula. It's how '94 Classic was done, and one of the reasons it works is your top guys really are your top guys. The point where guys start to "mesh" together is in the middle, not at the top.

SO, everyone skates really well these days. I'd put most guys at the 4/4, and tweak it so some guys are 3/4 and some are 4/3's, 3/5 & 5/3's for variety of course.

Your big heavy guys skate w/ 1's & 2's here & there, but a Chara gets maybe 5 agility.

Only one or two guys gets that 6 speed, and about 10% at most can have the 5 speed, imo. Those borderline guys turn into 4 speed, 5 agility if you need the extra bump to make them almost special.

That's just me, cause then Sid the Kid and those guys stand out at the 6 speed. To me, converting on the 6 scale REQUIRES not trying to re-create real life counterparts, but to try to recreate their "values" to be used in game.

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Yeah I saw that and I wondered about adding that in. I figured I would need to set something up in excel first and then figure it out. Daunting, but looks like it could be awesome :)

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Brutus I agree, and that is sort of how I went about it for the process. You need to have the best be the best. And, you want their skillset on the ice to reflect in the game, to a point.

I definitely agree on the # of players that should have a certain attribute strength. Ie, speed (possibly one of the most sought after skills as a GM). In this ROM:

6 speed = 4 players

5 spd = 74 fwds

It is so hard, when you look at the list that have 5 spd, to drop one. But, if we did the 1-15 for next season :) it'd be something to think about. Then you can really spread out the attributes and have more of a measuring stick.

Looking at the superstars, I feel Patrick Kane is the best reflection of what his real-life counterpart would be hahaha. It really is tough to get an accurate picture of each player. The game that really nailed it was Madden way back in the day. They had 1-100 that you could edit. Really allowed you to create a more accurate simulation, which I think is what we all want. I do want it to be a bit video gamey, still, if you know what I mean :)

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Brutus hit it on the head.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

It doesn't matter if people are really 4 or 5 skaters.

You could argue everyone in the NHL is a 6 skater.

The point is the Original rom was great because of the variation.

I just wish Gretzky and Lemieux were the best players instead of Roenick and Mogilny.

Since weight is one of the most important attributes I make the best players light.

Wt should really probably be called the checking and balance rating.

That is why in my roms I stay true to the original ratings and variation.

I just make the best players the best players.

Gordie Howe = Pavel Bure

Jean Beliveau = Steve Yzerman

Bobby Hull = Jeremy Roenick

Bobby Orr = Phil Housley

Dave Keon = Pat LaFontaine

Anyway, it works for me and I am sure Skip's rom works for him.

This is a can of worms that will never be 100% agreed upon.

I am sure Igor Kuperman never got such scrutiny.

Different times and what I think we all miss Plug and Play.

I spent forever doing roms and never felt I could get ratings right.

I got this idea of staying as true as possible to the Original rom from TSB guys.

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I definitely agree on the # of players that should have a certain attribute strength. Ie, speed (possibly one of the most sought after skills as a GM). In this ROM:

6 speed = 4 players

5 spd = 74 fwds

How many 5's and 6's in the Original rom.

To me your 6 speed looks good.

Maybe to many 5's.

But, if we did the 1-15 for next season

I am not sure exactly how this works in 94 but 92 and 93 that have 1-15 ratings 86, 93, and 100 are all basically the same. And really how many 6, 13, and 20's would you have?

It is why 92 is sweet if you play with SJ and QUE you will play with some 6's.

And Brutus will beat you with them because in his words "They are Fat f---ks"

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Brutus hit it on the head.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

It doesn't matter if people are really 4 or 5 skaters.

You could argue everyone in the NHL is a 6 skater.

The point is the Original rom was great because of the variation.

I just wish Gretzky and Lemieux were the best players instead of Roenick and Mogilny.

Coach Mac, right on man. Exactly the way I feel too. I agree 100% with everything in this box hahaha ^ EVERYTHING!

And it really is so hard to get it right, and what is right for me may not be right for someone else.

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How many 5's and 6's in the Original rom.

To me your 6 speed looks good.

Maybe to many 5's.

I think there are six 6's, and far less 5's (probably 15 or so?) Total guess and if I wasn't heading out right now I'd count them haha. But I feel it'd be weird to match it tit-for-tat, because it isn't really the same league.

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I think also it is important to point out how great a job Skip has done in creating this rom and starting this league in the first place. I think MOST are just thinking we can work together and make it better and I think it is that spirit that will make this a fun league.

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Detroit:

Pulkkinen should be slower. Maybe even 4 agility and 3 speed. Good offensive awareness to help out his positioning with 5, he is defensively responsible as well as most Detroit products who go through their AHL school. Guys like Tatar who are offensively more gifted might get a bye. Pulkkinen has a cannon of a shot and shotpower should be 5/6, it was one of the reasons he ever got drafted. Used on powerplay. Was one of the top guns in AHL last season, but might be too slow to really make it out in the NHL.

Edited by Depch
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Good feedback, I don't know much about him honestly, just what I read on the prospect report. But, just because he has a hard shot, doesn't mean he will get a 5 shp, and he def won't get a 6 (Weber/Chara only). The eye test cannot be the only thing used for the ROM, or everyone would likely have a 5 or 6 shp because the differences between shot power for NHLers is very small. I'd guess even the worst 4th line enforcer can shoot 88 mph and send Marty and Doc back in time :)

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Guy has a wicked shot. It's in the shades of Hull slapper. :) Shades at least. It's his skating that is keeping him down I'd say. You might have to revize that! ;D

Edited by Depch
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If a guy runs a 4.2, 4.4 or 4.9 40 yd dash, that's a VERY minuscule difference, YET it is ALL the difference in being considered BLAZING, FAST or AVERAGE speed.

SO, I wouldn't be afraid of applying scouting ratings on dudes getting 5-6 SP, and removing all the accuracy if they aren't actual scorers.

In other words, for NHL'94 terms, they shoot hard, but still don't score a ton of goals.

Something to consider if you find a handful of guys you gave a 3-4 Shotpower too, but find they have real hard slapshots, and want to "update" the ratings.

To me, I'm completely find playing w/ whatever they are, whatever the names, etc, as long as it's inside the '94 confines where a game is done in less than 15 minutes. SOOO MUCH BETTER than all the other sports games I'm playing now and one of the main reasons I keep coming back to it over the graphically superior NHL, NBA, MLB & NFL PS4 games I own.

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Easier for me to say, as I didn't spend a month plus doing all the ratings, BUT....

I find a handful of these forum guys seem to REALLY know these players, and just waiting for 2 weeks on all the name feedback, and let them MAKE the tweaks for you. Sit back and enjoy playing/drafting the current ROM already in place, and allow the "teamwork" to complete everything.

But, that's just me. I do understand if you have a version, vision & total package you want out of all the guys and don't want anyone else touching it.

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Ah.. and I was the one "bitching" over third line scrubs ONLY because they play for Ottawa... Well now I see someone else requesting changes for a third liner only because he is from Finland yet it's "good feedback". :glare:

Why is it acceptable when others do it but not me? I don't see skip cussing about it and I certainly don't see other guys like jer and smoz coming in to make potato and steak dinner jokes..

Edited by Premium
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Ah.. and I was the one "bitching" over third line scrubs ONLY because they play for Ottawa... Well now I see someone else requesting changes for a third liner only because he is from Finland yet it's "good feedback". :glare:

Why is it acceptable when others do it but not me? I don't see skip cussing about it and I certainly don't see other guys like jer and smoz coming in to make potato and steak dinner jokes..

I am not requesting changes now. This is only talks and feedback for future. I am completely fine how the roster is now, but if we wanna make a "perfect" rom (there is awalys room for improvement), we should have talks here and back up our talks with some proof. Personally I don't like Pulkkinen so much, but when he winds up that shot, it's fun to watch and I am also suggesting a huge drop off to his speed, which makes him more unusable, from 5/5 to 4/3. Trying to be objective here and not in a bitchy way I respect the job Skip has done, hundreds of players it's hard to get accurate, can't follow or have knowledge of all the players. :)

Edited by Depch
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another thing i saw is Marcus Kruger is an interesting combination. He almost always splits top D line duty with the Hossa/Toews/X line and should have a 5 D awareness and is a pretty good skater. He also misses tap ins and is generally has poor hands and O awareness so even a 2 SH and 2/1 O aware would be accurate.

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  • 2 weeks later...

We spoke about this in a private chat, but I think the goalies offensive, and defenses awareness should all be the same, so instead of say a 2 OA and 5 DA as they are now, I think all goalies in the original rom have the same for both, and I think (I could be wrong) this is for a reason as I've seen some weird AI experiences from some goalies that I never saw in the original rom.

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Thanks for pointing this out, Lupz. I will make the changes for v4 and for our League ROM. I don't want anything outside of the intended physics/AI of game to affect the outcomes of games.

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I am only making the change for the goalie off awareness (useless category) as the wonkiness is possibly real and has no negative affect on how we play our games. No other changes for the league ROM, but I've added everything for V4 of my 2016 ROM. I suggest we use that ROM for season 2 of this league.

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