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Possible new selection process for teams for Ko94

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Smoz and I have been discussing a new option for selecting teams for each game.

Something we are considering:

1.Coin toss winner is Player 1 and selects one of the groups below. *(The groups were just ones I tentatively made tonight. Perhaps something about working in 4 groups of 8 made sense to me but I only put minimal thought into it.)

2.Player 2 then picks a team to be removed from the group.

3.Players alternate turns in eliminating teams until they get to two teams.

4.Player 2 then picks his team and is the away team.

The likelihood of picking an even matchup still exists.

It gives a bit more empowerment to each coach.

Reduces uneven matchups that newer players might experience

The rule of "no longer picking the same match up for the rest of the tournament." would be removed.

If players met later on the tournament, then the coin flip result would switch (same as before).

We would have a page with the groups on them so players could scratch off teams as they alternate.

A

CHI 78

BOS – 76

DET-75

CAL-75

PIT-75

NYR-74

LA-74

BUF – 73

B

NYR-74

LA-74

BUF – 73

MON – 73

WIN -73

TOR – 72

VAN – 71

QUE- 71

C

TOR – 72

VAN – 71

QUE- 71

WAS -70

STL – 69

PHI – 69

NJ – 68

DAL - 67

D

EDM – 67

HAR - 66

NYI - 66

SJ – 56

TB – 56

OTT – 55

ANA – 52

FLA -51

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Questions for Sega folks who actually still play...

With the CB check... is PIT competitive in that top group?

Are there teams that are misplaced? DAL is a good team. BOS isn't that great.

Might it be better to have the whole list, then have a "sliding window" and the coin flip winner can set a window of 8 teams?

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I like the selection concept. Although a blind ban round would be nice. It's similar to map selection in StarCraft II and I like it. However i would def NOT group teams by OVR. Gross misreprensatation of the skill avail. For example HFD is clearly the best team in group D. Van the best by far in Group C etc....

Van's a top tier team and it's group C lol

Edited by The Russian Rocket

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Also I think a good thing to do would be this : Eliminate Group D entirely, as in forcing bad team matchups a real way to get a cheap victory (IMO) as they're largely very specialized teams people don't play often.

I think anybody who elects to do so should be able to swap with a lower group team (as long as it's not a team that's in two skill groups)

Top Tier: VAN, CHI, BUF, DET (BOS, CGY?)

Just below : DAL, MTL, NYR, WIN, CGY, BOS, LA, QUE,

Playable: PHI, TOR. STL, EDM, HFD, PIT, NYI, NJ. TB

Utter Aids : The rest

Edited by The Russian Rocket

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Brilliant idea. I like just having coin toss winner select the group then loser pick a team and winner pick a team.

I'm thinking the elimination of teams part might slow things down, especially for clowns 😂😂😂😂

Smoz, I don't think Pitt belongs in that first group. I can see non forum participants taking them because you know they're Pitt, not aware of the disadvantage of their weight.

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Another suggestion is something that Segathon had mentioned to me a while back. They do this at one of their tecmo tournaments.

http://tecmotourney.blogspot.ca/p/team-tiers.html (The tier graphic they made is awesome!)

They group the teams, just like here, but there's no elimination of teams. One player would select two teams like before and the other picks his team and they play.

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I like the TSB way posted.

Thanks for that.

The way listed in the OP is to long and drawn out/complicated.

At my Live tourneys, I have just made cards with even match-ups.

Draw

Flip

Play

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Don't eliminate the low tier teams. If you're good at this game, you can manage with any team. What happens if someone wants to use their favorite team say, SJ, WSH, TAM, we're going to tell them they can't?

I agree w/Coach and Ice, whatever is quick and fair for team choosing.

I have a couple ideas I want to throw out.

Not making any suggestions for what team selection should be like because I trust it will be fair. But other stuff that IMO would make things quicker and smoother.

- Instead of playing someone once, play them 2 times in a home & home. The 2nd game the match-up could be is switched. Ex. Game 1: Coach A is TOR home, Coach B is PHI away. Game 2: Coach A is PHI home, Coach B is TOR away. This would cut down on the searching and transition time spent. Waiting for table, scheduling and finding the person you are supposed just to play 1 game is not efficient use of time. If you can knock out 2 games against them it will speed things up.

- Another option to speed things up, and also add the adaptability component (that was missing from last KO94) is something like a best of 3 against every opponent you're scheduled to play. What I mean by adaptability is you learning how your opponent plays and being able to adjust to it in games 2 and 3 (if necessary). I'm a big proponent of a series, even if it's just a BO3. Doesn't matter if teams are the same or different each game, just the aspect of playing someone immediately after you just played them presents the opportunity to utilize a key skill....tinkering the following game/games (by changing your style of offense/defense, lineup, or team choice based on your opponents strengths & weaknesses).

More efficient use of time means more games can be played.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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I like how Tecmo rolls a dice to see what tier you pick from, so 80% of games are not something similar to Detroit vs Chicago.

I've been in tournaments that were pick anyone, and it was pretty much all that lameness and a whole lot more.

The Toronto tourney format was decent. It had variety and strategy, but for anyone who doesn't enjoy getting into the semi-final round of a long tourney and having to play a guy like AJ w/ a San Jose vs Tampa style sloth fest, I understand.

Dice type roll to what tier, and you can take any team from that tier & below. So, if it's Tier 2, but you WANT San Jose, I'm fine with that.

AS for 2 games at once, that doesn't work in a tournament. There are a ton of holes in this logic, but I'll just leave it at, that won't work.

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Also, I'd only do 3 tiers, and the dice roll goes 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 for those tiers respectively.

3 tiers leaves plenty of choice and removes the San Jose level tiers from being "forced" on to a player.

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I want TK to be forced to use ANA/OTT level at some point :grimace:

Edited by Uncle Seth

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Why not just pick your team? Most simple way to do it. Isn't that how exis work?

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Why not just pick your team? Most simple way to do it. Isn't that how exis work?

Exi's are just that, exi's with nothing on the line but a little pride.

Tournament is lose and go home. So, then it's all Detroit vs Chicago with maybe 2-3 teams subbed in there. For anyone who has ever been to one of these tourney's, around the 2nd hour of it, you realize why you won't do it again.

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I want TK to be forced to use ANA/OTT level at some point :grimace:

I'd do ANH/FLA all day every day to him, lol!!!

I'm not a big fan of the tier idea. It's too subjective and I think Raph did a post where we did a fairly bang up job as a group in picking even matchups. I tend to like our format as is.

I could be into the best of 3 idea that Seth proposed once we are into top 16 or maybe even perhaps top 8. I dont see much point in having it in the preliminary rounds because too many times coaches can be mismatched skill wise and its pointless to use the extra 10 minutes. Plus, it makes any sort of upset that much harder to pull off. Once things are deep into the tournament, I could see why we expand things a tiny bit.

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Exi's are just that, exi's with nothing on the line but a little pride.

Tournament is lose and go home. So, then it's all Detroit vs Chicago with maybe 2-3 teams subbed in there. For anyone who has ever been to one of these tourney's, around the 2nd hour of it, you realize why you won't do it again.

So then why did the top players rarely pick DET/CHI for their teams in classic? I can see the weaker players picking DET/CHI, but at a higher level not everyone is going to be picking DET/CHI.

I don't think DET/CHI have been used by any previous Classic champion besides flasox. I could be wrong. I do see the point though.

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I'm not a big fan of the tier idea. It's too subjective and I think Raph did a post where we did a fairly bang up job as a group in picking even matchups. I tend to like our format as is.

I like the format as is, too.

I strongly believe in the motto "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why replace something simple that works and the vast majority of people are fine with, with something more complicated?

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So then why did the top players rarely pick DET/CHI for their teams in classic? I can see the weaker players picking DET/CHI, but at a higher level not everyone is going to be picking DET/CHI.

I don't think DET/CHI have been used by any previous Classic champion besides flasox. I could be wrong. I do see the point though.

A) Because $1094 wasn't on the line

B ) Because they probably think it's boring to always try to use the best team

C)

Spring 2016: #1 DET, #2 CHI <-- draft order was not reverse skill order! Uncle Seth (DET) was in the finals in the previous season

Fall 2015: CHI DET BUF

Spring 2015: DET, BUF, CHI

Fall 2014: BUF CHI VAN DET

D) The best players tend to pick later so don't get the best teams, but a top player with a bad team can beat a bad player with a top team, so that's why the top players win with LA or DAL or whatever (which are by no means bad teams, although they have areas of weakness *cough*Hrudey*ahem*)

---

However, I do think that if both players *want* to just pick teams, they should be allowed

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IMO if you use Raph's tier list but replace with results it's fine. 2nd Pick should def. have last ban regardless of how many teams (so alternate the ban system so 2nd is always last).

TIER I (the strongest)

CHI
DET
BUF
MTL
VAN

TIER II (strong)

CGY
BOS
DAL
WPG
LA

TIER III (good teams, competitive)

QUE
TOR
EDM
NYR

TIER IV (flawed, weak teams)

PHI
HFD
PIT
STL
WSH

TIER V (poor teams)

NJ
NYI
SJ
TB

TIER VI (The worst)

FLA
OTW
ANH

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I like the format as is, too.

I strongly believe in the motto "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why replace something simple that works and the vast majority of people are fine with, with something more complicated?

Catching up and I pretty much agree with this...did anyone have a problem with the system?

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Catching up and I pretty much agree with this...did anyone have a problem with the system?

Im in the camp of keeping it simple.

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C)

Spring 2016: #1 DET, #2 CHI <-- draft order was not reverse skill order! Uncle Seth (DET) was in the finals in the previous season

Fall 2015: CHI DET BUF

Spring 2015: DET, BUF, CHI

Fall 2014: BUF CHI VAN DET

D) The best players tend to pick later so don't get the best teams, but a top player with a bad team can beat a bad player with a top team, so that's why the top players win with LA or DAL or whatever (which are by no means bad teams, although they have areas of weakness *cough*Hrudey*ahem*)

I was referring to the seasons of Classic before the draft was implemented. Top guys rarely selected DET/CHI as their #1.

I think only the weaker players pick DET/CHI due to the advantage it gives in lower level play. At the higher level there is very very very little advantage as long as both players have good teams. The top 10 teams become interchangeable and then it becomes a matter of preference at that point. Not every player is going to prefer CHI to DAL, or DET to CGY, or BUF to BOS.

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I was referring to the seasons of Classic before the draft was implemented. Top guys rarely selected DET/CHI as their #1.

I think only the weaker players pick DET/CHI due to the advantage it gives in lower level play. At the higher level there is very very very little advantage as long as both players have good teams. The top 10 teams become interchangeable and then it becomes a matter of preference at that point. Not every player is going to prefer CHI to DAL, or DET to CGY, or BUF to BOS.

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I like the selection concept. Although a blind ban round would be nice. It's similar to map selection in StarCraft II and I like it.

What is a "blind ban"?

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I was referring to the seasons of Classic before the draft was implemented. Top guys rarely selected DET/CHI as their #1.

I think only the weaker players pick DET/CHI due to the advantage it gives in lower level play. At the higher level there is very very very little advantage as long as both players have good teams. The top 10 teams become interchangeable and then it becomes a matter of preference at that point. Not every player is going to prefer CHI to DAL, or DET to CGY, or BUF to BOS.

This is true, but I also believe they did it for variety and/or proving themselves with a lower team because there was not $1094 on the line. Also, knowing they will spend most of the time playing much inferior opponents. I know Carse 1st-picked SJ one season. AJ joined Blitz 1 with leftover players.

But maybe some top players can chime in with their past choices and why.

I'm not sure there are 10 interchangeable top teams... Surely BOS is not in anyone's top 2 teams. Surely DET is in 90+% of people's top 2.

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What is a "blind ban"?

Players are unaware what the other player has elected to ban. SCII has 3 Maps per round and a popular model is the following :

8 Maps are presented

(Simultaneous)

Player A Blind Bans 3 Maps

Player B Blind Bans 3 Maps

Unbanned maps are revealed, if more than 3 maps left ban until they are only 3 left. Rare occasion that players don't overlap banned maps they reset.

I like blind bans because people try to play to their strengths rather than goes at it flows.

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This is true, but I also believe they did it for variety and/or proving themselves with a lower team because there was not $1094 on the line. Also, knowing they will spend most of the time playing much inferior opponents. I know Carse 1st-picked SJ one season. AJ joined Blitz 1 with leftover players.

But maybe some top players can chime in with their past choices and why.

I'm not sure there are 10 interchangeable top teams... Surely BOS is not in anyone's top 2 teams. Surely DET is in 90+% of people's top 2.

Boston has had a massive power surge since the Goalie MEta change and the C-B checking.

BOS def is by far the best in the game.

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Boston has had a massive power surge since the Goalie MEta change and the C-B checking.

BOS def is by far the best in the game.

Hmm interesting!

Do you mean BOS definitely is the best or BOS's defence is the best?

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Boston has had a massive power surge since the Goalie MEta change and the C-B checking.

BOS def is by far the best in the game.

What is the Goalie MEta change?

And only Boston's defense is the best. The Bourque / Sweeney combo is nasty.

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Players are unaware what the other player has elected to ban. SCII has 3 Maps per round and a popular model is the following :

8 Maps are presented

(Simultaneous)

Player A Blind Bans 3 Maps

Player B Blind Bans 3 Maps

Unbanned maps are revealed, if more than 3 maps left ban until they are only 3 left. Rare occasion that players don't overlap banned maps they reset.

I like blind bans because people try to play to their strengths rather than goes at it flows.

What's the procedure when there are 3 left? Is it random then?

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