Sign in to follow this  
Premium

Making all advantages even for future seasons of Classic (GENS)

Recommended Posts

Premium    18

Classic

Is

And

Never

Was

And

DEFINITELY

Was

Not

Originally

Designed

To

Be

A

Totally

Fair

Best

Player

Wins

League

Every

Season

Is

Different

Based

On

What

Team

You

End

Up

With

It's

Really

Quite

Simple

Such an idiotic comment. Go read the league description on NHL '94.com. It's designed so "everyone can get a good team".. Obviously it is INTENDED to be fair. So stupid lol what the fk are you saying. It's not meant to be fair? So why are the leagues sorted by skil level then..... hmmm I wonder why. Don't you see how the leagues are sorted by GENS-A and GENS-B?

The whole point of a league is to see who the best is.. It's a competition. The goal is to WIN and you WIN by being the best. So what if teams are different every season? That goes for all leagues. How stupid can you be? Are you saying Blitz wasn't fair because there was a draft every season? Good logic man.

These are not comparable to NHL '94. There is a difference between an "upset" and getting handicapped. In a handicap, the game "determines" who wins whereas an upset is usually caused by luck and other factors such as hard-work and determination like you said. There wasn't code in the Super Bowl that made Tom Brady lose. There wasn't code that made the Miracle on Ice happen. I'm talking about things that happen when they shouldn't.

You don't need luck, hard work or dedication to win a handicapped game because the game automatically "makes" you win. All EA Sports Games have this. It's called "scripting" and there is code in the game designed specifically for when the game wants a team to win. It just so happens that NHL '94 does it through advantages and we can take them out of the game.

The Miracle on Ice and Leceister City are like winning the lottery. The handicaps I'm talking about are like losing the lottery despite getting all the numbers correct or winning despite getting none of the numbers correct. There is a clear difference between the two.

I'm not a fan of the situation where I have a winning lottery ticket but am denied the jackpot for some unknown reason. The others don't mind the situation because they are the guys who have the losing ticket but still receive the jackpot. I'm saying, Why not just use the method where the guys with the winning tickets win the jackpot since that's how it's supposed to be??

Edited by Premium

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
angryjay93    0

You had Calgary and lost. That's not a handicap. You just lost. Get over it and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CoachMac    98

OOOOH! I finally understand. :eyes_droped:

You are the best!

If you don't win it is because of a code in the game.

The game made those other people win.

Buy yourself a trophy and move on.

No point in you really even playing, since:

A: You win.

OR
B: You were cheated. The game "made" the other guy win.

Why not just use the method where the guys with the winning tickets win the jackpot since that's how it's supposed to be??

The USSR had the winning tickets in Lake Placid by a huge margin.

But I sure am glad Jim Craig and Mike Eruzione showed up!

Even though thats not how its supposed to be.

Not sure why you are confused about the fact many people, teams, etc... seemingly have it all and blow it.

There are not winning numbers in life.

Otherwise we would not see people rise from nothing and fall when they seem to have it all.

The reason this game is great and loved is it captures that.

And CLASSIC does it better than any rom you will ever make.

Pac Man is what you want.

Edited by CoachMac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smozoma    100

Such an idiotic comment. Go read the league description on NHL '94.com. It's designed so "everyone can get a good team".. Obviously it is INTENDED to be fair. So stupid lol what the fk are you saying. It's not meant to be fair? So why are the leagues sorted by skil level then..... hmmm I wonder why. Don't you see how the leagues are sorted by GENS-A and GENS-B?

Sorry bud, but you DON'T know what you're talking about. This is a classic Plabax move, to pick on certain things that appear support your view, while overlooking the big picture. For a while it looked like you'd gotten over that, but you're back at it. "Everyone gets a good team" is not the same as, "everyone gets a good team which gives them just as good of a chance of winning as everyone else." If you get a "good seat" at a theatre, it doesn't mean no other seat is better or worse than yours.

Classic has always been the for-fun league, using the original teams and gameplay. If you want a serious hardcore league, you play the other leagues. Oldendays, it was all-but-totally random. Everyone in the same league, team choice order random, you actually picked your team list before the order of team choices was decided, .. the team you ended up with was practically random! It's been made more even (or more accurately, less completely whack) by splitting it up by player skill level and reducing the number of teams, but it's still not meant to be a league for measuring your e-peen. It's a fun league. I rarely played it in before because that didn't appeal to me. If it's not your thing, and you've voiced your opinion but the organizers aren't interested... DON'T PLAY. It's not like there aren't league for what you want. Or you can make your own.

The whole point of a league is to see who the best is.. It's a competition. The goal is to WIN and you WIN by being the best.

No, you can have a league for fun, to play with your friends or make new friends or just enjoy the game.

I played a league with my friend where played with every single team against every other team. Kept stats. It took like a year. We did it for fun, not to see who was the best.

I've played in a beer league (relatively serious one, 10 teams, stats, refs, a draft..) with players who could clearly totally carry games if they wanted to but would instead play a nice team game (although you did get the occasional young try-hard).

We have the Ottawa Sport and Social Club (OSSC) here. There are dodgeball leagues, floor hockey, soccer, volleyball etcetc... The standings are not determined solely by your wins and losses. 25% of your points are for not being hypercompetitive assholes ("spirit points" they call them).

So what if teams are different every season? That goes for all leagues. How stupid can you be? Are you saying Blitz wasn't fair because there was a draft every season? Good logic man.

You are purposely distorting what I said based on what you want. Well, either purposely, or you're just an idiot. Every year is different because the player+team combination changes the balance and a worse player with a better team can have a championship. It has nothing to do with Blitz or other hardcore leagues.

Also, Blitz was designed to be competitive -- but not competitive in the "best player always wins" way but competitive in the "anyone could win" way. The draft was set up to equalize the teams+coaches. The better you did, the worse your team became (up to a point, anyway -- I didn't want to be giving the best players no picks in the first 3 rounds or something that would completely even it out). swos even quit after winning the championship when he realized he would end up with a weak team, and I wouldn't change it... Too bad, that's the league. Regardless, in the end, the best players won anyway because the best players got brought down similarly in the draft, but in theory the weaker players were more competitive with players slightly better than them (my hope was that there would never be teams with >.700 or <.300 records).

---------------------------------------------------------------

You need to look at classic differently.

If you want to be the best in classic, you need to play multiple times and show that regardless of the team you get, on average you will do the best. You may not win every year, but if you can win more than anyone else, then there you go you're the best. Like the IIHF style ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smozoma    100

So like how HFD doesn't have a star player, a definite disadvantage/handicap... let's add a hack that gives them Roenick..?

Nobody is going to be picking HFD, and even if someone plays with them.. then it's obviously for a challenge.

As (correct me if I'm wrong…) the only person to ever pick HFD in classic, he's right.

So HFD isn't the best example these days when the league is smaller, but the point still stands that if there are 10+ teams in the league, the teams are not all equal, some are "handicapped," and by Plabax's logic should be hacked to make them more even, since we already changed OT in the playoffs to make the game longer in the 2% of games that go the distance.

I mean seriously, even with ~10 teams, I'm sure the teams' players have a more significant impact on the outcome than the home/away/pp/pks. It's ridiculous. (I mean in terms of a home&home series)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smozoma    100

Why not just go ahead and make a league where everyone can pick whatever team they want? I think that would be a very cool league actually. Take out the hot/colds. Not just even out the home/away/pp/pks (which actually still makes teams have advantages), but hack the game to completely disable the advantages. Perfect.

Call it the Champion League or Best of the Best League or something. There can be no argument that whoever wins that league played the best*.

*well, it's possible someone could have gotten lucky in an elimination game situation with AI penalties (how I managed to beat Brutus in Toronto) or the AI flubbing an open net shot (how I managed to beat VC in Toronto) or the goalie AI being hilariously bad and flopping on the puck and pushing it into his own net somehow (how I managed to beat IceStorm in Toronto)... But I still think it's a cool league idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smozoma    100

Is this the impetus for you wanting it changed?

post-253-0-65736800-1469408723_thumb.png

If you beat Zalex in that game 7, sure, maybe you would have gone to the finals and won.

But you were the 5th seed, so he got home advantage.

You had 40 games to establish that you should get the benefit of the doubt over Zalex, but you didn't do it. You've said before that you don't try as hard in the regular season, and if that's why you had a .500 record last season, well you dug your own grave.

Home teams only won 48% of games last season, anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Premium    18

OOOOH! I finally understand. :eyes_droped:

You are the best!

If you don't win it is because of a code in the game.

The game made those other people win.

Buy yourself a trophy and move on.

No point in you really even playing, since:

A: You win.

OR

B: You were cheated. The game "made" the other guy win.

C: I lose because the other guy was better than me..

D: I win because my opponent was cheated but it hardly affects me because I would likely win even if my opponent weren't cheated.

I don't want to say that I get cheated if I lose, it's that I'm being cheated when I lose in certain scenarios. There is a difference between the two. I've lost multiple times and not felt cheated. You even said I had good sportsmanship when I lost to annatar. That's because it wasn't BS. What you guys are painting this out to be is different from what I am getting at.

There is a difference in me getting outplayed and losing because my opponent deserved it and me losing the game when I "should" have won. I'm just not a fan of losing when it's painfully obvious I should have won.

And yes smoz, it is ONE of the reasons. When it comes down to it, I beat Zalex 70% of the time in draft league playoffs. I am 12-5 against him and 3-0 in playoff series. Zalex is also 0-5 in playoff series against Raph. When you combine the two, that makes 0-8. He's 0-8 against us in draft leagues so how realistic is it for him to go 2-0 in Classic? If he was playing out of his mind and outplaying me I could believe it, but he came nowhere close to outplaying me.

The stats also don't lie: Zalex went to the finals but was somehow at the bottom of the league in the important stats that usually correlate with winning. Hmm.. lol wat?

There are other players who have a similar situation. Flasox never had a good GDL season yet he was able to beat Freydey. Depch never had a good GDL or Blitz season yet was able to beat kingraph and Icestorm in 5 games each. Don't you think it is fishy? These things NEVER happen in draft leagues, only in Classic. There was a Hokkee/Icestorm upset in GDL 8 but that was an upset and not a predetermined gift victory.

And you are right, the .500 record is my problem.

Edited by Premium

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
angryjay93    0

Don't you think it is fishy?

No, its not fishy at all. No need to elaborate. You have your own conspiracy theory so why should I bother fighting you on it.

The real question is this. What happens when we set the league to your exact specifications for fairness and you end up getting bodied by a player who is "inferior".

Will you just make more excuses and attempt to move the goalposts again?

Dont answer, that question is rhetorical.

As a guy who has bitched and moaned about losing before (nowhere near your level, but I will admit I have). Shut up, put your damn stick down on the ice and play some f**king hockey. Go earn a championship, dont sit here and demand to be catered to so we can just hand you something.

If you dont like classic, dont play. Go make your own league with your rules or just play GDL. End of story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uncle Seth    7

Take out the hot/colds. Not just even out the home/away/pp/pks (which actually still makes teams have advantages), but hack the game to completely disable the advantages. Perfect.

And take out pims too! It appears there is enough people who want a different league that incorporates all of these elements.

Edited by Uncle Seth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Truer words have never been spoken...or typed for that matter...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CoachMac    98

^^^^ Thanks, and that is why 94 and TSB endure.

They replicate the randomness of Sports.

It is why we play and watch and love when it the painfully obvious better team or more talented person loses.

Everybody loves Upsets and Underdogs.

There is a difference in me getting outplayed and losing because my opponent deserved it and me losing the game when I "should" have won. I'm just not a fan of losing when it's painfully obvious I should have won.

It is painfully obvious USSR should have won in Lake Placid,

USA Basketball in Munich,

Tom Brady was the 6th best QB in his draft year,

The AFL Jets had no chance against the mighty NFL Colts!

Play Pac Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Players who were/are bad GDL gms win when the drafting phase is taken out.

SHOCKING!

Scientists baffled at how this could happen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    45

I've played video games all my life.

I've found unlike real life, where it is 100% all in control of the actions of players/coaches/refs in a real world, video games tack place within a controlled reality coded by & controlled by the games creators.

Ever try to be competitive with friends at the arcade w/ those goofy race car games?? It's not a clutch upset if my son beat me as much as the game just forced a comeback. This type of coding exists within video games where despite any button combinations you might try, despite all skill difference, the result almost seemed pre-determined.

While I think Plabax arguments, examples, case, etc are weak, I find highlighting real life upsets to not be as valid cause he's really not claiming to be cheated by the refs or anything that can exist in real life as did in USA vs Ussr.

But aside from home/away advantage being removed & the drafted teams generally less skilled than classic teams on average, there aren't that many variables being removed to suddenly claim the winners are now random.

It is true what wins in classic is not what wins in draft leagues. To me that seems logical, not systemic of some internal "classic" issue.

Also, "classic" is designed to play the game the way we all played it for many, many years in real life vs each other, unaltered , but in a season format. As a young kid, you never experienced this, & it's value has inviously eluded you...

Along with many other things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Premium    18

Players who were/are bad GDL gms win when the drafting phase is taken out.

SHOCKING!

Scientists baffled at how this could happen

Makes sense. That's why Flasox always lost with the best teams in GDL... :)

And, for the record, I don't suck in Classic. I haven't registered since 2013 and I've actually

only ever lost as a replacement. I have a title as well.

If I do register, I'll pick a team like the Bruins or the Flyers and abuse the handicaps to victory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CoachMac    98
I don't suck

No doubt about it. You are obviously one of the best players and most knowledgeable.

I'll pick a team

Perfect!

I've played video games all my life.

I've found unlike real life, where it is 100% all in control of the actions of players/coaches/refs in a real world, video games tack place within a controlled reality coded by & controlled by the games creators.

Ever try to be competitive with friends at the arcade w/ those goofy race car games?? It's not a clutch upset if my son beat me as much as the game just forced a comeback. This type of coding exists within video games where despite any button combinations you might try, despite all skill difference, the result almost seemed pre-determined.

While I think Plabax arguments, examples, case, etc are weak, I find highlighting real life upsets to not be as valid cause he's really not claiming to be cheated by the refs or anything that can exist in real life as did in USA vs Ussr.

But aside from home/away advantage being removed & the drafted teams generally less skilled than classic teams on average, there aren't that many variables being removed to suddenly claim the winners are now random.

It is true what wins in classic is not what wins in draft leagues. To me that seems logical, not systemic of some internal "classic" issue.

Also, "classic" is designed to play the game the way we all played it for many, many years in real life vs each other, unaltered , but in a season format. As a young kid, you never experienced this, & it's value has inviously eluded you...

Along with many other things.

I have not played video games all my life.

In fact I hate them.

92, 93, 94, TB, TSB, Jams, and RBI are the exceptions.

I am not sure if I completely follow what you are saying Brutus, but the best do win in 94 and TSB.

I played AngryJay 30 times in one weekend and he went 29-1. Playing with huge handicaps every game.

The game never decided I was going to win. Did things go my way at time yes.

The game I won was like CHI vs SJ.

The great thing is using handicaps can make playing the game fun for players of way different abilities. Smoz talks about this, Golf has this.

I do agree that certain games have a no blow out code (NBA Jams), but the best player does still usually win.

I think many who think the games cheat are the same ones who always feel cheated in real life. I am in no way sure about that and I am sure that the mighty Brutus would take it like a man when I kicked his ass in real life the way he does mine in video games. :haha:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    45

i played more sports than video games most of my life, but I've played a fair bit of both. Aside from focus & being competitive, I don't find the mindset of real life & video games to link that much in terms of success at ones leads to success at another.

So to me, i just don't see upsets in real life having the same value in countering his argument.

A better comparison to me would be more how in the Olympics for hockey, the bigger ice rink completely changes the game. New rules, new strategy but same game.

Suddenly, some teams that never had a chance suddenly can have success. So most celebrate a Latvians team success or when hasek carried his team through, etc. but in the end, Canada wins more often than not.

So one type of setting/rule change can lessen the advantage the edge in talent can have on the final result.

to me, it's still a big reach to say because a coach lost in draft leagues but won in classic that classic is broken. Maybe it's the draft leagues that let the lesser coCh win because he was a better GM & Zalex & Depch are actually superior players at the original game.

Also, I would love the chance while we still aren't using walking canes to get some real life completion going coach & yes, I'd lose graciously (if I did lose). Be happy to get on the bball court & see if you can stop me from walking you down to the block :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aqualizard    42
I am in no way sure about that and I am sure that the mighty Brutus would take it like a man when I kicked his ass in real life the way he does mine in video games.

Also, I would love the chance while we still aren't using walking canes to get some real life completion going coach & yes, I'd lose graciously (if I did lose). Be happy to get on the bball court & see if you can stop me from walking you down to the block :)

Well at least one good thing has come from this Troll-thread: a real life challenge between Coach and Brutus. Next King of '94 or wherever you guys see each other in person, it looks like we got ourselves a competition! Awesome! I got $20 on Coach. (He is a coach, after all!)

Note: Real life sports are for nerds. Cool people play video game sports only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Premium    18

to me, it's still a big reach to say because a coach lost in draft leagues but won in classic that classic is broken. Maybe it's the draft leagues that let the lesser coCh win because he was a better GM & Zalex & Depch are actually superior players at the original game.

I disagree. As there are so many draft league champions who won with average teams, I don't like this argument. How often do you see a lesser player win because he was a better GM? And it's not like Depch and Zalex use TERRIBLE teams while everyone else uses luxury in draft leagues.

Also, there is still the case of Flasox, who would have an elite GDL team but get bounced in round 1 or 2.

And the main problem to me is the fact that they aren't superior players at the original game. They get outplayed but manage to WIN. It's a handicap. It's like being set back 50m in the 100m race but losing despite running at a faster pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CoachMac    98
Well at least one good thing has come from this Troll-thread: a real life challenge between Coach and Brutus. Next King of '94 or wherever you guys see each other in person, it looks like we got ourselves a competition! Awesome! I got $20 on Coach. (He is a coach, after all!)

:exciting: I had already been thinking we need to play ball hockey up in NWT for Mikey's event this summer. I think that anything would be great. I would love to do Green Bay or NYC but my real-life coaching will prevent me from any Fall events m oving forward.

I am looking at Saskatoon this winter!

Plus Brutus has an open invite to come out to my place and ski by day and 94 by night.

Edited by CoachMac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    45

I disagree. As there are so many draft league champions who won with average teams, I don't like this argument. How often do you see a lesser player win because he was a better GM? And it's not like Depch and Zalex use TERRIBLE teams while everyone else uses luxury in draft leagues.

Also, there is still the case of Flasox, who would have an elite GDL team but get bounced in round 1 or 2.

And the main problem to me is the fact that they aren't superior players at the original game. They get outplayed but manage to WIN. It's a handicap. It's like being set back 50m in the 100m race but losing despite running at a faster pace.

I do understand your point, and I have conceded that within a video game, its quite possible for the scenario you are portraying to be accurate. I also understand that WHO is making the argument can affect the sentiment of the crowd, and you've been one to scream "me me me" from the roof tops as long as you've been winning.

So, to take an honest look at if Classic is skewed to favor a "lesser" opponent would require more than a few titles by guys hardly "average".

Just having played Depch in Classic & in GDL/Blitz, I noticed a difference. He was MUCH better in Classic, where he knew all the teams, knew their tendencies and also knew his team's own strengths/weaknesses. As for Zalex, I found he always play the "trapon" style, which perhaps works better in a ROM that highlights home/away momentum swings, because it is hard to get momentum going vs him, as he limits your chances. In other words, at least 2 of the 3 guys you've chose to highlight as proof I don't find the "proof" so obvious.

Another angle is a lot of coaches guys DO NOT spend that much time studying their opponent's team, even in the playoffs. I've been in the playoffs and had coaches pause the game to re-check who I even have if I was winning the game. So, it's MORE plausible to have a coach in the playoffs of GDL/Blitz not KNOW the in's and out's of their opponents team as much as in Classic.

One could even make the same irrational statements that guys who win in draft leagues do so because they study the different chemistries more & also draft better.

Again, I see that having momentum for home/away and the team selection process could lead to a more "evening" factor, but still, within the game.

SOMEHOW, every time someone PLAYS AJ he finds a way to win. He studies the game a lot and I don't hear him complaining about guys beating him in draft leagues or in classic. I just see him playing and winning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    45

:exciting: I had already been thinking we need to play ball hockey up in NWT for Mikey's event this summer. I think that anything would be great. I would love to do Green Bay or NYC but my real-life coaching will prevent me from any Fall events m oving forward.

I am looking at Saskatoon this winter!

Plus Brutus has an open invite to come out to my place and ski by day and 94 by night.

Mrs. Brutus was very upset with me when I did not take Coach up on this trip too. Work can be a mo-fo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree. As there are so many draft league champions who won with average teams, I don't like this argument. How often do you see a lesser player win because he was a better GM? And it's not like Depch and Zalex use TERRIBLE teams while everyone else uses luxury in draft leagues.

Also, there is still the case of Flasox, who would have an elite GDL team but get bounced in round 1 or 2.

And the main problem to me is the fact that they aren't superior players at the original game. They get outplayed but manage to WIN. It's a handicap. It's like being set back 50m in the 100m race but losing despite running at a faster pace.

Their teams are pretty s**t/niche usually

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HABS    6

<p>Sounding pretty darn corny... </p>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kgman    12

it's funny how platex condoms (the worst condoms in history) is complaining about advantages when he obviously uses a keyboard which many view as an advantage at all the times u can't have your cake and eat it too! isnt it ironic don't u think ............any modification to original playing design or machine is illegal ......billy mitchell...../thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kgman    12

fact check playtex doesn't make condoms lol .......I meant to say durex! I hope the designer of durex condoms burns in a liquid fueled semen death

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Freydey    0

it's funny how platex condoms (the worst condoms in history) is complaining about advantages when he obviously uses a keyboard which many view as an advantage at all the times u can't have your cake and eat it too! isnt it ironic don't u think ............any modification to original playing design or machine is illegal ......billy mitchell...../thread

your mom uses keyboard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kgman    12

so does yours except she's watching kgvision* (patent pending) where I slapped around frenchies all over quebec! ......last week I jerseyed a guy that scammed me in Quebec City ...kg never forgets! don't be next gayday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Premium    18

:rolleyes: Keyboards and controllers share the same controls

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this