aqualizard

Pass Shots and CB Checking: The Truth

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I agree with Depch and view CB as an evolution in the game.  Just like pass shots and B checks.  It's cool that we're able to discover something new in the game.  CB isn't going anywhere and it doesn't take rocket science to get the hang of it.  Sure it may change the way we draft but that's only natural.  Previous GDL drafts were getting stale and boring as the same players would always be drafted around the same spots.  Now we have some crazy variance and fluctuations in ADP, and people can actually find hidden gem type of players.    Sure Raph is dominating right now but he's had a huge head start of everybody with CB and knows exactly how to draft his guys.  As we get more drafts you'll see those advantages slowly go back to the norm (where Raph is still ripping it).

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38 minutes ago, HABS said:

As we get more drafts you'll see those advantages slowly go back to the norm (where Raph is still ripping it).

Yes, I see Tik & Messier raising their draft stock for example. I traded Tik for Lebeau (Tik was picked ahead of Leb in plablegs, in GDL it's been vice verse) in Plablegs and came to regret it. I think this will become the norm more, Tik is more valuable than Lebeau and will propably be picked in the top 40 from now on, there are some situations that might not be the case though. I have really picked upon Coffey as well in plablegs and he has become a huge favourite of mine, I could see him raise stock as well to the level of Housley or even above due to CB to skilled 7 weighters and below aka better defence than Housley who is probhited from checking 7 & 5 weights with CB or C so high stickhandlers are a problem for him and they exist in those weights.

I think as CB brough wbfixed physics available to classic rom the ideal drafting will be somewhere in between how GDL has been drafted the past few seasons and between Blitz drafts. Blitz drafts have had perhaps a bit too heavy emphasis on heavy weights where as in GDL there was heavy emphasis on lightweights by B players over skill due to their checking preferance. Weight is still more important in Blitz, but things will shape out to be closer to that eventually and especially as CB picks up more ground. It is not hard to do, I had problems with the timing at first trying to do it too fast resulting in poor execution.

See the burst get started and switch off. Don't press burst and immediately switch off, that was my initial problem and sometimes failing the burst then. After doing it slow at start you can start to hone it to your preferance later and do it faster as well. It's just timing. But everyone will find their own way.

Edited by Depch

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Well there was def. some drafts where it swung too far in favor of fatties. Allowed me to get a really decent team despite having no 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th round picks. 

Was at the point people would pick fatties over slim dudes with better skills 

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Also I think Plabax is correct. If you don't have a hard shot or elite skating and you're playing a C/B team you cannot win. Or at least its super f**king hard

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I don't buy the argument that superstars were unstoppable with A+. 

Since I started playing, we've had for top scorers:
GDL 10 - Klima (Carse)
GDL 11 - Klima (FPB)
GDL 12 - Dino (Raph)
GDL 13 - Klima (Raph)
GDL 14 - Mogilny (Icestorm)
GDL 15 - Roenick (FPB)
GDL 16 - Klima (Freydey)

We've also seen FPB w/ Mogilny, BoKnowsNHL94 w/ Bure, HABS w/ Roenick, me w/ Roenick, and guess what: NONE of those "unstoppable" superstars did anything with the exception of GDL15, and I wasn't playing.

I took out Carse w/ Klima/Gretzky, FPB w/ Klima, FPB w/ Yzerman, Raph w/Klima, Zalex w/ Roenick, Seth w/ Klima, Ice w/Mogilny, and Freydey w/Klima. All dominant victories on my part. 

I find it odd that the ONLY times I have truly struggled are against the CB check when I don't have a certain set of players. 

If these superstars are so good and unstoppable, and I can dismantle all of them and win close to 100% of the time, why can't I defeat Raph without speed or heavy players unless the CB check is not in play? I can destroy anybody and anyone until the CB check is thrown in. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Raph is so good with the CB check to the point where it has become impossible to win unless you can somehow avoid being checked down by either countering via. weight, or using a fast player. That's why I kept Russ in my Plabax League. He's the only player that I have that can be effective against him. However, in Blitz you can't get that same kind of advantage, and that's why I believe I have a much easier time dealing with Raph in Blitz, even with a weaker team. Despite this, Raph is still a very good player, and that's why he performs extremely well in Blitz. Raph plays me tough in Blitz, but it's NOWHERE near the level of toughness I face with the CB check. I have won more titles than everyone else COMBINED since my first GDL one, so to me it makes sense that I should be winning and never getting crushed by players who get crushed by subpar ones, which is the case when the CB check is out of the equation.

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33 minutes ago, The Russian Rocket said:

Also I think Plabax is correct. If you don't have a hard shot or elite skating and you're playing a C/B team you cannot win. Or at least its super f**king hard

Well said. I'm leaning on it being impossible. It's like trying to win with a team full of 25OVR players. It doesn't matter how good you are, you just won't be able to win.

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36 minutes ago, Premium said:

I don't buy the argument that superstars were unstoppable with A+.

I did not mean it word to word. It was an exaggerration that meant that defensively it becomes really hard to play against them. You cannot use C-check and B-check would work only occasionally, perhaps holding would work better as it's being used nowadays and also the knowledge of high defensive awareness being able to strip pucks off from high stickhandlers too, but 5+ def awa guys are not many. Lack of CB on default eases up offensive game a lot. Easier to skate around, bumping in to other players, more crease cuts, more slap dekes etc. I would feel it would be downgrading to current play defensively, while I understand good skaters love that.

The default game has changed and I have embraced the change after first struggling with it. I have made an argument related to the live tournaments that are creating the standard for play if the money is there. They use the original version and I cannot see how it could be stripped off from the online leagues without shooting yourself on the leg considering practising for the live tournaments. I cannot participate, but I have played other competitive games where I am modeling this from and it just makes sense.

I'm looking forward to upcoming Brutus league as well with wbfix nocb. CB checkers should have a easy time adapting now, for them the only difference is that light players cannot check there and stickhandling on heavy players is the king where as it's overall level in default is reduced now. And the latter I propably don't like as it's almost the case reversed from my first paragraph, but there are at least players able to counter them from the heavy end of players (not the case vice verse, Roenick, Gretzky etc), you just need to draft the heavy checkers if A+ gets any of the heavy stickhandlers.

Edited by Depch

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1 hour ago, The Russian Rocket said:

Also I think Plabax is correct. If you don't have a hard shot or elite skating and you're playing a C/B team you cannot win. Or at least its super f**king hard

Plabax is correct in that sense. It's not the case against ANY CB team, but against the very good players. There is a skill level to it, as you well know. I think you have to pay attention what your opponents are drafting and be able to react, I've been a poor drafter most of the time but taking lessons all the time. If contender X is using only one draft strategy that allows him to win, it will eventually be countered in drafts making for better team matchups.

I see no problem here.

Edited by Depch

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I misread your comment. It's the case against the very good players, I agree. Raph is super skilled with it and there is a point that I think has passed where no level of pure-skill offence can defeat it.

Edited by Premium

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35 minutes ago, Depch said:

I'm looking forward to upcoming Brutus league as well with wbfix nocb. CB checkers should have a easy time adapting now, for them the only difference is that light players cannot check there and stickhandling on heavy players is the king where as it's overall level in default is reduced now. And the latter I propably don't like as it's almost the case reversed from my first paragraph, but there are at least players able to counter them from the heavy end of players (not the case vice verse, Roenick, Gretzky etc), you just need to draft the heavy checkers if A+ gets any of the heavy stickhandlers.

One of the main reasons I went with the Blitz ROM instead of Classic was because a certain amount of guys were "tired" of the C/B, not "DONE" with it completely.  I was also hearing rumbling(s) about having penalties back in some form.

So, I assume when we go back to Plablegs Season 2, it will be same rules, C/B still enabled, penalties off, etc.  I think to keep the monotony of the same old drafts & all that, it'd good to change to a different league here, different league there, etc.

 

I actually LIKE Classic WITH C/B more than Blitz as a personal preference.

 

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For the life of me, I just don't understand why someone would be against CB. Nor do I understand how it makes things unfair, or uneven.

CB checks are a "fix" that makes heavy guys check the way they were meant to.  There is nothing cheap about it.  If there were no weight bug in the game, a CB would just be a C, like it is for light guys.  If anything, CB enables players to perform as intended, and not be handicapped by a stupid glitch. 

Furthermore, they simply are part of the game.  For everyone.  You can choose to be proficient at them, or not, but they are a technique available to all.  As well, we do drafts that are designed in such a way as to let everyone pick a team as they see fit.  You can draft good CB checkers, or focus on speed or shooting -- whatever -- it is up to each coach.  Again, no inherent advantage to anyone.  It's an equal playing field; draft whom you see fit. It's equal.

Bottom line: I really tried to understand what was cheap, or wrong about CB Checks, and see those arguments for what they are: nonsense.

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2 hours ago, aqualizard said:

If there were no weight bug in the game, a CB would just be a C, like it is for light guys.  

This is not true because the computer controlled players are much more efficient C checkers.  They can take you down while barely touching you, and rarely if ever do not complete the check if the make if the slightest contact.  

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19 minutes ago, jackandjose said:

This is not true because the computer controlled players are much more efficient C checkers.  They can take you down while barely touching you, and rarely if ever do not complete the check if the make if the slightest contact.  

Ha, maybe I am missing something cuz I don't follow you, JJ.  Specifically, the computer isn't C checking or CB checking? There are no buttons involved, the AI just "checks"? Can you expand on what you are saying?

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8 hours ago, jackandjose said:

This is not true because the computer controlled players are much more efficient C checkers.  They can take you down while barely touching you, and rarely if ever do not complete the check if the make if the slightest contact.  

If you are indicating that where as C check would not always get it done, but a CB does due to this AI behaviour then you are propably right. I have noticed someone like Kasparaitis throw a hit to Oates and Oates falls down, this happened in some GDL vs Seth. That should not happen because they are both the same weight, so perhaps checking plays some part in computer checks, not all players are capable of that. Perhaps speed plays some part of that as well, Coffey can be a very effective CB-checker.

Anyways.

I took a time out of my interest to go through the players a bit from the oldschool classic view, era pre CB and thus continue my "little promoting crusade" for CB in classic.

3 Kovalenko & Fleury - Natural resistance to all manual checks by D-men, only can be brought down by B-check
4 Roenick & Gretzky - Natural resistance to all manual checks by D-men, natural resistance to B-checks as well due stick 5+
4 Gilmour, Bradley, Broten, Emerson & etc - Natural resistance to all manual checks by D-men, only can be brought down by B-check
5 Bure, Lafontaine, Ciccarelli, Savard - Natural resistance to all manual checks by D-men, natural resistance to B-checks as well due stick 5+
5 Ronning, Eklund, Lebeau, Juneau & etc - Natural resistance to all manual checks by D-men, only can be brought down by B-check
6 Yzerman, Hawerchuk, Damphousse, Makarov, Housley, Leetch - Manual checks from D by Sweeney, Pederson, Hynes, natural resistance to B-checks as well due stick 5+
6 Selanne, Sakic, Recchi, Reichel & etc - Manual checks D by Sweeney, Pederson, Hynes - vulnerable to b-checks
7 Mogilny, Klima, Oates, Robitaille, Gartner, Fedorov, Modano, Zhamnov - Manual checks D by Sweeney, Pederson, Hynes, Zhitnik, Lidstrom, Svoboda, Brisebois, Russel, Giles, Thompson, natural resistance to B-checks as well due stick 5+
7 Larmer, Hogue, G.Courtnall, Roberts & etc - Manual checks D by Sweeney, Pederson, Hynes, Zhitnik, Lidstrom, Svoboda, Brisebois, Russel, Giles, Thompson - vulnerable to b-checks

Basically if you don't know how to do B-check effectively you are screwed and it will still be hard vs the stickhandlers. If you're lucky you get one of the 4 weight D-men and you can then play effectively against the 6+ weights, but there are still plenty of threats below that weight. You also know it's gonna be real hard to throw a B-check to any of the lower weight guys on middle coming for a ontimer if you're not in a position to intercept the pass. There are so many offensive threats and so few good defencemen to stop them. It's essentially a skating festival and team matchup plays a great deal of importance as well. I think CB does a great favour to balance the Classic game out.

I now understand that in addition of reducing the value of stickhandling this also negates the need to be effective user on B-checks and if you were skilled on that, it might feel as reducing the overall level of skill required. You do lose a clear advantage with that as not many are adept with B. Now it's a weapon of choice - B-check or CB in addition to C and as seen CB is more effective and perhaps even easier to time out in online play than proper B when you figure it out. If you rely only on C in Classic you're severely handicapped, but that is on you, the handicap already existed with B-checkers being able to do more than you and it's not a "cheese". It's a stick check that existed when the game was already played in the 90's.

Edited by Depch

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4 hours ago, Depch said:

If you are indicating that where as C check would not always get it done, but a CB does due to this AI behaviour then you are propably right. I have noticed someone like Kasparaitis throw a hit to Oates and Oates falls down, this happened in some GDL vs Seth. That should not happen because they are both the same weight, so perhaps checking plays some part in computer checks, not all players are capable of that. Perhaps speed plays some part of that as well, Coffey can be a very effective CB-checker.

Depch, are you saying that AI checks can occur that are better than human initiated C checks? (As in a human C checking using Ksparitis on Oates will not knock him down, whereas the AI doing it, does or can knock him down?)

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46 minutes ago, aqualizard said:

Depch, are you saying that AI checks can occur that are better than human initiated C checks? (As in a human C checking using Ksparitis on Oates will not knock him down, whereas the AI doing it, does or can knock him down?)

Yes, the latter is proven to happen, it happened in GDL and I was astonished what was going on at first, it happened a few times. Not all AI players are better with it, but it might be something to do with chk or one thing I've speculated with agr is that it's how "dirty" the player gets when performing contact as it is also the likelyhood for penalty. Higher agr tends to result in dirtier penalties by referees. It could be speed/timing for the AI check as well. Now I think it is a great feature if it has something to do with the chk attribute.

Btw. Also Otto & Fetisov take Messier down with ease with CB this is experienced in plablegs and they are only +1 in weight, if it was a 100% reverse to C, it would had to be +2. So chk definately might have something to do with AI checking.

Edited by Depch

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I see.  Yeah, that must be what JJ meant.

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On 1/28/2017 at 7:43 PM, aqualizard said:

For the life of me, I just don't understand why someone would be against CB. Nor do I understand how it makes things unfair, or uneven.

CB checks are a "fix" that makes heavy guys check the way they were meant to.  There is nothing cheap about it.  If there were no weight bug in the game, a CB would just be a C, like it is for light guys.  If anything, CB enables players to perform as intended, and not be handicapped by a stupid glitch. 

Furthermore, they simply are part of the game.  For everyone.  You can choose to be proficient at them, or not, but they are a technique available to all.  As well, we do drafts that are designed in such a way as to let everyone pick a team as they see fit.  You can draft good CB checkers, or focus on speed or shooting -- whatever -- it is up to each coach.  Again, no inherent advantage to anyone.  It's an equal playing field; draft whom you see fit. It's equal.

Bottom line: I really tried to understand what was cheap, or wrong about CB Checks, and see those arguments for what they are: nonsense.

+ 10000000000000

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On 1/29/2017 at 4:39 AM, Depch said:


Basically if you don't know how to do B-check effectively you are screwed and it will still be hard vs the stickhandlers. If you're lucky you get one of the 4 weight D-men and you can then play effectively against the 6+ weights, but there are still plenty of threats below that weight. You also know it's gonna be real hard to throw a B-check to any of the lower weight guys on middle coming for a ontimer if you're not in a position to intercept the pass. There are so many offensive threats and so few good defencemen to stop them. It's essentially a skating festival and team matchup plays a great deal of importance as well. I think CB does a great favour to balance the Classic game out.

 

Depch gets it.  

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On 1/29/2017 at 9:08 AM, Depch said:

Yes, the latter is proven to happen, it happened in GDL and I was astonished what was going on at first, it happened a few times. Not all AI players are better with it, but it might be something to do with chk or one thing I've speculated with agr is that it's how "dirty" the player gets when performing contact as it is also the likelyhood for penalty. Higher agr tends to result in dirtier penalties by referees. It could be speed/timing for the AI check as well. Now I think it is a great feature if it has something to do with the chk attribute.

Btw. Also Otto & Fetisov take Messier down with ease with CB this is experienced in plablegs and they are only +1 in weight, if it was a 100% reverse to C, it would had to be +2. So chk definately might have something to do with AI checking.


Yes CPU checks takes in account the checking rating. Also why Coffey is actually an awful C-B checker

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I think actual skill in defending is more important than the players when it comes to stopping superstars. Guys who struggle against superstars do so consistently no matter who they have.

For example, Icestorm and I are not going to struggle to stop JR with two random guys such as Sandis Ozolinsh and Jeff Brown on D. And for others such as Freydey and KingRaph, they will likely struggle against a superstar player no matter who they have on defense.

It's not about the superstars being too good, it's about knowing how to stop it. On the other hand, I just don't think there is a way to beat the CB check through true skill and not player abusing. In other words, you can't just "know" how to beat the CB check or be good at beating it.

People know it's a great advantage too. That's why all the popularity for Blitz went away. Once people noticed how strong the CB check was, Blitz was no longer desired, because they felt that it was a "better" version of the weight fix in which they could actually get some good body checking teams.

Edited by Premium

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4 hours ago, Premium said:

I think actual skill in defending is more important than the players when it comes to stopping superstars. Guys who struggle against superstars do so consistently no matter who they have.

For example, Icestorm and I are not going to struggle to stop JR with two random guys such as Sandis Ozolinsh and Jeff Brown on D. And for others such as Freydey and KingRaph, they will likely struggle against a superstar player no matter who they have on defense.

It's not about the superstars being too good, it's about knowing how to stop it. On the other hand, I just don't think there is a way to beat the CB check through true skill and not player abusing. In other words, you can't just "know" how to beat the CB check or be good at beating it.

People know it's a great advantage too. That's why all the popularity for Blitz went away. Once people noticed how strong the CB check was, Blitz was no longer desired, because they felt that it was a "better" version of the weight fix in which they could actually get some good body checking teams.

FTR Jr wasn't stopped lol

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Take a look at the "GDL Records" thread, and look at the best GAA. Before the CB check, the top 5 were ALL from season 1 and season 2. Kind of odd, right? The next best is from Carse's GDL09 team. Carse's GDL09 team doesn't even come close to the #5 rated team from GDL 1 and 2. Carse gave up 0.15 more goals a game. However, when you compare Carse's team to the next best teams, you see that they only gave up 0.02 to 0.04 more goals a game. I am pretty sure this includes at least 11 seasons of sample size (GDL 06-16). If not, then it includes at least 8 (GDL 09-16), which is still a lot.

Now take the two mega CB checking teams, Raph's GDL14 team and AJ's GDL16 team (drafted by Raph). They gave up 0.6 and 0.33 less goals a game than Carse. That crushes the old record of 0.15 that only five teams had done before, ALL from season 1 and 2. How does this make sense considering that for the 11 seasons (GDL 06-16) or 8 seasons (GDL 09-16), nobody could come close? Is it a coincidence that the only two ultra CB checking teams with two different coaches gave up 0.33 to 0.60 less goals a game compared to the best otherwise (outside of season 1-2)? 

Not only that, but GAA is heavily correlated with manual goalie skill or Roy/Belfour. In the 8 or 11 seasons of sample size outside of GDL 1 and 2, the best seasons belong to Carse (Belfour), Icestorm (strong manual goalie) and Freydey (strong manual goalie). With the CB check included, the top two belong to Raph (Belfour) and AJ (Roy). In Plablegs, Raph doesn't have either but he still has an absurdly low GAA. 

The three best defensive teams ever by a long shot are all mega CB checking teams, and they don't need Roy/Belfour or strong manual goalie like all of the other top defensive teams. Even in Blitz, where Raph was the top body checker, he never posted amazing GAA numbers. Also, I don't see how TWO different coaches (the only two to use the strategy) could demolish the defensive records like that 100% of the time. It's not a coincidence. 

With the CB check, it doesn't become a game of skill, it becomes a game of who can outcheap the opponent. Raph made 4 of the last 5 Blitz finals and is clearly a great player, so why do his results fluctuate when the CB is involved? Simple. The playstyle in the games he plays (both him and his opponent) relies around gimmicks and cheese. That's why almost none of his GDL series are close, and a good number of his Blitz ones are. In Blitz, you see him go to 7 with Zalex, TK, 6 with me, etc. because it comes down to real skill. But in GDL, it's always a landslide because it's just one party abusing a trick that the other can't counter and it's over in 4 or 5 games.

 

Edited by Premium

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I see this becoming only sentimental case for trolling. So this will also be my last pro CB post in this thread.

Before CB era, there were 0 defencemen that could manual check the guys below. Yes, zero defencemen that can manual check the guys below. I repeat one more time, 0 guys that could manually c-check the guys below.

Kovalenko, Fleury, Carter, Belanger, Hynes, Pederson, Kennedy, McInnis, Acton, Bassen, Borsato, Millen, Donato, Drake, Broten, Emerson, Sweeney, Bradley, Gretzky, Roenick, Gilmour, Thompson, Giles, T.Sweeney, Smail, DiMaio, Straka, Russel, Barnes, Petrovicky, Rucinsky, Erickson, Kozlov, Kasper, Brisebois, Nylander, Lapointe, Audette, Kron, Nedved, Todd, Leeman, Keane, Svoboda, Lidstrom, Zhitnik, Juneau, Lebeeau, Eklund, Savard, Ronning, Ciccarelli, Bure, Lafontaine

There are 3 defencemen in Sweeney, Pederson & Hynes that can manual check (aka use C) the following guys.

Lipuma, Roberge, Woolley, Watters, Shuchuk, Loewen, C.Luongo, Bozon, Butsayev, McKay, Stapleton, Bergevin, Haller, Konowalchuk, Romaniuk, Sullivan, Needham, Evans, Evason, Krygier, Hannan, Brunet, Foote, Pearson, Lafreniere, Tippett, Cunnyworth, Freer, Leach, Burr, Pellerin, Wilson, Lazaro, Hughes, C.J Young, Andersson, Brown, Boschman, Pantaleyev, Presley, Beranek, Garpenlov, Gilchrist, Gill, Gaudreau, Lamb, Sjodin, Gallant, Konstantov, Bautin, Lowe, Leach, Sheppard, B.Mullen, Racine, Heinze, Daigneault, Volek, Driver, Cote, Elynuik, Maciver, Nicholls, Gusarov, Craig, Carbonneau, Ferraro, Kisio, Errey, Davydov, Amonte, Sutter, Craven, Donnelly, Weight, Yake, Zelepukin, Graves, Kvartalnov, Turcotte, Borschevsky, Sutter, Thomas, Nemchinov, Makarov, Courtnall, Reichel, J.Mullen, Sanderson, Semak, Damphousse, Hawerchuk, Granato, Gagner, Letch, Bondra, Recchi, Sakic, Housley, Selanne, Yzerman

The key question is how does that make the non B-checkers _FEEL_. CB is easier to execute yes than time a proper B in online play. CB requires some skill as well, it doesn't take it away, does it make harder to execute skating techniques, yes. Does it remove the necessity to be effective on B, yes, but it doesn't remove the skill from the game. This becomes a sentimental question of preference. CB check exists in the classic rom and unless the official live tournaments are changed to be used custom roms in Gens then I see no way there being a change to key online leagues either or it would be detrimental to live play strip that away. For that reason true Classic league should always exist as it emulates that play even though how much I like the static no penalties with b-check.

Edited by Depch

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In my opinion, the reason you see a difference between my old Blitz and current GDL is the following:

* I've improved as a player.

* Competition in GDL is weaker than Blitz.

* CB check is new, not everyone can execute the check (vs. Blitz, where C is C), so advantage to those who can.   

* Focus on spending draft picks on top d-men and goalies vs. forwards.

That's pretty much the reasons you would see a difference in my game.  You give me Iafrate/Stevens/Zalapski instead of Glen Featherstone/Kasatonov/McSorley, against competition that isn't as good as Blitz, that's the result.  I won't spend much more time questioning or unwinding Plabax's theories, but wanted to throw in my 2 cents in there.  You all have to remember, Plabax wins 100% of the time unless there is something in the game that prevents him from doing so.  Don't even argue it.

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hmm one thing depch, i dont think it makes sense to call people 'non b check players.' B check is an essential tool required to be good at 94 (at least in the pre cb days). To me thats like playing rock paper scissors and saying youre a non paper player, never playing paper lol.

 

The b check was put in the game for a reason, so you have a way of defending a player that you are unable to check with the guy youre controlling. Cuz this game was designed with a weight fixed world in mind, without the b check this game would have had no balance.

 

You all have lots of great points in this thread, im just here to say that i dont think it makes sense for players to consider themselves non b checkers

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4 minutes ago, TomKabs93 said:

hmm one thing depch, i dont think it makes sense to call people 'non b check players.' B check is an essential tool required to be good at 94 (at least in the pre cb days). To me thats like playing rock paper scissors and saying youre a non paper player, never playing paper lol.

 

The b check was put in the game for a reason, so you have a way of defending a player that you are unable to check with the guy youre controlling. Cuz this game was designed with a weight fixed world in mind, without the b check this game would have had no balance.

 

You all have lots of great points in this thread, im just here to say that i dont think it makes sense for players to consider themselves non b checkers

If one is unable to do it, but tries to do so then you are correct. I can say that I was a non C-checker in the time of Finnish leagues, just B. But this is just word play, at least I hope everyone understood what I meant. Let's hope this clarified things more to people. ;)

ps. I'm getting way too defensive in this so I will take some distance to the whole thing and just focus on playing.

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Even if all that is true, AJ still got the same results in GDL16 using the same blueprint.

I just don't see how the massive difference in play comes down to anything else but the CB check. It's the only thing there is to factor out. Seriously, there is a 0.6 gap between GDL14 Raph and GDL09 Carse. Then with GDL16 AJ and GDL09 Carse it's 0.33.That's huge. That's the equivalent of averaging 9.5 and 8.8 goals a game without a top player. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, kingraph said:

Plabax wins 100% of the time unless there is something in the game that prevents him from doing so.  Don't even argue it.

:secret_smile:

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We all know I can't be stopped in Blitz.. let's not act like it's close :D

Plabax is perfect when the cheese is removed and has never even seen a game 7 despite having the most titles ever. Nobody has ever even beat me in consecutive games in the playoffs!

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