Depch

Plablegs 1: Depch playoffs r1 & r2 krec

Recommended Posts

Depch    22

I'm posting the .krec here for those who want to view these playoff games in Gens. These are done with the new kaillera and you need the plugin to record or use the player in kaillera netplay to view the games. I'll add the links to those if anyone outside of the current community should ever want to check out the games. Just unzip the recorder plugin to your Gens/kaillera folder to be able to use the player from Gens netplay.

Bin required: plablegsiFINAL.bin
Kaillera: http://p2p.kaillera.ru/wip/kailleraclient.dll
Recorder/Player plugin: http://p2p.kaillera.ru/wip/okai_recorder.7z

Round 1 vs Zep:
g1&2: 58a73bd40102.krec
g3&4: 58a7403f0202.krec
g5: 58a7464e0102.krec
g6: 58a748780202.krec
g7: 58a74adb0102.krec

Round 2 vs Plabax:
g1&2: 58abd7b90102.krec
g3&4: 58abdc0f0202.krec
g5: 58abe0720102.krec
g6: 58abe2b40202.krec

ps. It would be so much better if the match page on nhl94online.com would be updated so the .krec files could be uploaded to there instead.

Edited by Depch
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kingraph    87

I took a stab at finally doing some video commentary on game 5.  I decided on game 5 because the series was 2-2 at that point and I figured both players were engrossed in the series, and this would be as good as any game.  There's no pre-planned thoughts or edits, it's just me watching and commenting on some things that I see that I thought might be helpful for the "closing the B player gap" thread.  I hope it's somewhat useful for folks...it could also be a complete waste of 30 minutes, lol.  But it was a fun first attempt.  Thanks to Depch for posting the krecs.   If anyone watches, let me know what you liked/didn't like, etc...so if I do this again I can tweak it.

One thing worth noting -- this is specific to this game.  Meaning, this is Plabax vs Depch in a Plablegs playff game, and it's one game.  Both of these guys may play different vs. different opponents, with different teams, or even in this series (I didn't watch any other game).  Adaptability is key with A-level players.

Boxscore reference: http://nhl94online.com/html/pl_box_score.php?gameid=6996

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depch    22

That was actually nice to watch.

Gilmour had a real bad game offensively there.

Cutting some things down and I now understand why I felt so frustrated after the game.

-I had one wonky goal vs Plabax 2 wonky goals
-Me 3 "surefire goals", that resulted in missing the net and two of those resulted in counter offensive where Plabax scored vs 1 poor angle open net onetimer missed by Plabs
-2 Posts vs none
-Plabax run out of time in first period for a clear goal

I did not like the way my AI handled the D either, was just rushing and no consistency on a low sitting D. On another time the score would've been very different and perhaps lead to a different result in the series as well.

Next game was a blowout, I guess I just lost it mentally after this frustrating loss.

Plabax GC & mental approach is top notch. And a good mental approach results in good opportunities.

My "home crowd" theory does not apply here as it's clearly working against me in the latter part of the game, but the crowd theory in general still applies the misses dominantly happen in high 90+ db crowd for the other team.

Thanks for doing this, was fun.

Edited by Depch
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pearate    6

I love this video, very interesting. Nice work Raph.

Depch was not lucky on this one :)

What is exactly the "Home crowd" theory ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    44

Nice work Raph.  Thought the break down was "on the fly" but very accurate.

F- Dougie Gilmour.  If he shoots accurately, that's a 6-4 Depch lead.

 

Enjoyed & look forward to more of these.  Would DEFINITELY be interested in a Raph coverage of one of his own games, to get a little more of "inside" intel.

 

Perhaps even on an exi/just league game, with a chance for counter commentary or duel cast commentary.


Either way.  Enjoyed. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depch    22
1 hour ago, Pearate said:

What is exactly the "Home crowd" theory ?

I have to break down it to a few things first. There have been a few speculations going on how the home / away advantages go.

Plabax has said that they'd be related to hot/cold aka the variation of player attributes according to the code in the game. And it's backed up by that you almost never see a player with 4 stickhandler toddle to b-checks at away, but it happens at home quite a few times for Muller for example at Montreal. Static rom cancels this out so there is no necessity to change home/away advantages in those roms if this is purely the case.

Regarding the crowd. I've been taking a notice that whenever you have those open net misses or a several in a row the crowd is always at 90db or plus. I've also taken notice that it's usually the visiting team that has those misses going on for them, so I started to speculate that maybe the home/away advantages could be related to crowd as well. Like how easily the team can get that crowd bonus. According to the manual home teams are always at an advantage and the visiting team is always marked to have a "disadvantage". So "home crowd" theory was that crowd always is working for the benefit of the home team. This is not true though as is evident in the game Raph did go through and what I've seen from a small sample size of games in Brutus league as well, where the home/away are set to minimal (still does not necessarily make a difference, just probably been more observant there now).

Crowd theory still seems to apply that the frequent misses happen at 90db+ but it can happen for either team at a time in a sequence within the game, not usually for both. So either team can wield the power of the crowd for gaining the "momentum". Fact is there are fluctuations within the games that are not explained by variance in user skill or changes in player attributes according to the roms. I would also think that I have enough observations of this to not make it out for it just being part of the randomness. Regarding the theory it's that perhaps home team can amass crowd bonus easier than the away team, but away team can still take control of it as well. Periods start at 65db and the normal play is carried around usually at 80db-89db where nothing out of the ordinary takes place. Stuff like that starts to happen when the crowd is at 90db+ db for either team. Regarding the science in the crowd I know for certain that visiting team checks & stickchecks constitute for a +1db to the crowd even during off play, but home team does not have the exact same result there to it. I've been too lazy to research it out. There could be some real science behind amassing the crowd and it could give you a hint do you need to change your style how you approach the game in some areas.

Would it have any real meaning or results for gaming? I doubt that it would change anything much, but I know that at least you would not need to wonder about it in the games if it was 100% known and we'd have uncovered another "secret" that NHL94 still holds after all these years.

Ps. Players say that momentum plays a much bigger role in SNES, that it's much more evident there. I'm fairly sure it's not nonexistant in Gens.

Edited by Depch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kingraph    87
5 hours ago, Brutus said:

Nice work Raph.  Thought the break down was "on the fly" but very accurate.

F- Dougie Gilmour.  If he shoots accurately, that's a 6-4 Depch lead.

 

Enjoyed & look forward to more of these.  Would DEFINITELY be interested in a Raph coverage of one of his own games, to get a little more of "inside" intel.

 

Perhaps even on an exi/just league game, with a chance for counter commentary or duel cast commentary.


Either way.  Enjoyed. 

 

 

Definitely Gilmour was hungover from partying the night before in that game, but scoring would have changed the dynamic of the game.  Meaning, if Depch had a lead late, you may have seen some other, more aggressive play from Plabax. 

The "on the fly" was easiest, but perhaps somewhat erratic.  Ideally I'd watch the game once, or even twice, and THEN do a more structured breakdown video.  That would be more effort, but maybe I'll try that another time.

Originally I wanted to have a duel cast commentary with AJ to breakdown game 01 of the Plabax/Freydey GDL final.  We synced up, but It proved too difficult to do a commentary because there is a lag when watching streaming video.  It'd be great to have another view on the game.

Doing my own game would be interesting because I can tell you exactly what I was thinking during the match and what I saw.  Noted, I'll see if I can do one for one of the Et Tu, Brute? games. 

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions (to all).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aqualizard    38

Holy sh-t! This is the best thing ever! It is like a Masterclass on how to move from B to A.

I am heading to work, so only got 2 minutes in, but the very first point about Plabax taking control of the goalie, steering him to the right spot and then controlling a defenseman BEFORE THE SLAPSHOT is a subtle but amazing thing I never would have noticed. And I have watched many replays against the A guys where I am sure it happened, and never noticed this crafty technique.  I even remember Raph telling me to sometimes "take goalie control, get him set, then activate someone else" and I still didn't get it until now.

I can't wait to watch the rest of this, looking for more gems like this.

Awesome stuff, Raph!  That post above with the video deserves a million likes!

Edited by aqualizard
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depch    22

I will add my own commentary after watching this to provide better information for the insights that happened from my side as well.

I just have to comment on the Coffey rush'n stop #2 @ ~5:00. I didn't try to do a slapper, I tried to pass it to Lebeau for onetimer, but Gilmour rushed in and took the puck so there was no onetimer and instead Gilmour skated it to the goalie then.
 
Things to look from the defensive aspect of Washington. Looking at goals scored by Plabax.
 
0-1
 
I did make mistakes resulting on this goal. The first fail was on AI though, AI was skating forward with Coffey and carrying on the momentum to go for the puck, so I had to commit with Coffey for that and he just did not pick up the puck. We all have had these lapses happen to us. The mistake #1 was when I failed to CB-check Gagner with Fetisov. That is a situation that I translate to a succesfull check most of the time, but it did not happen there at all. The goalie play is just either aggression or try to guess it right and I failed on that one.

- One AI mistake and 2 my own mistakes resulting for the goal. Easy goal for Plabax.

2-2
 
@ 17:00 I saw Rusty getting the breakaway pass so I was ready to take the goalie control, but when I saw him make a backhander I just switched it off. The AI goalie (Joseph) failed to make the save and there's a juicy rebound there. I sometimes try to do a rebounds from that position and it's possible Plabax tried that as well, if it was a failed onetimer attempt, then it was a lucky break for him. I don't see Plabax go for rebounds much usually so I'm guessing the latter one. It's a very opportunistic goal for Plabax, but good players find ways to get opportunistic.

- Nothing I could change here, AI failed to make the save. A very opportunistic goal for Plabax.

2-3

The one thing that annoys me in NHL94 sometimes is that D sitting on place rarely happens for BOTH teams at the same time for a longer sequences within the game. When the other team has the AI D-men sitting down low, the other team has the D-men running around, usually. There are many things that could result to this and perhaps momentum is one as I'm guessing as you see later on. That is also one of the reasons I would like to find a way to eliminate momentum from the game or reduce it to a minimum effect at least or at least find the strict science behind it.

@ 18:10, just look at those D-men lining up down low as AI straight from the faceoff. I know Plabax intercepts those passes effectively so I tried to not push my head to the wall with keeping to go for the diagonal pass from the corner so I skated back upwards to find some room to make a play, kinda like with Coffey earlier. I had an option for onetimer or snap it in with Lebeau. I just got real unlucky that Gilmour didn't pot that goal in and if that's not enough, getting double unlucky to give a bounce on a clear after making manual save with Joseph and trible unlucky that Coffey missed the puck, blocked the goalie and could not block the shot with the stickcheck like they sometimes are able to. Just everything going against me here, a terrible sequence in the game. Looks like momentum for Plabax in this situation for sure. It could be verified from the krecs and checking the crowd.

- There is not much I could do differently here. I would make that onetimer 9/10 instead of the snap and I would also make that manual save with a goalie but the bounce is weird. I guess it's because of the sliding movement of the goalie that he makes that animation, just overall bad goal to give in. A couple AI failures as well.

3-4
 
@ 21:40 In my mind this is another goal that should not have happened. My AI D-men start to fall back, but when Plabax starts to rush the puck deep with L.Murphy, Coffey turns on his AI aggression all of the sudden and blocks Gilmour. Even after that negative turn of events Gilmour manages to hit L.Murphy even though it's not a 100% direct hit, but that's usually a hit that takes the player down near the boards. Here Gilmour just pushes Larry forward. Double misfortune here, first Coffey blocking Gilmour and then Gilmour failing the check to the boards, you can see the check making a contact with Larry especially when the focus is on Fetisov in the replay, see how Murphy gains lateral movement from Gilmour hitting him.

- AI failed me here big time and there was the freak dodge of the check on Murphy as well. There is not much anything I could have done differently here but try to make a succesfull manual save with the goalie.

3-5

Good lateral pass by Plabax to get Jagr going from the wing. I try to block the route to make a move with Jagr and I get Jags down as well with my goalie but the puck slides in to the goal before getting shot.

- I should have played that better with my manual goalie, I did the correct play with my goalie, but left the angle too wide for short side so the puck slipped in carrying on the diagonal movement from Jags.

I felt like Plabs did not have to work much for the goals but could just stay opportunistic and look for counter offensive most of the game and the zone statistics tell the same 6:26 vs 3:49. Nevertheless a good game that broke my back in the series. I feel strong about going onwards with my game in top competition this year.

Edited by Depch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aqualizard    38

I have watched more.  Still excellent and loving it.  Something happens to the audio at 8:40 to 9:30 or so that makes it largely inaudible, for me, anyway.  Gonna try it with headphones in a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kingraph    87
47 minutes ago, aqualizard said:

I have watched more.  Still excellent and loving it.  Something happens to the audio at 8:40 to 9:30 or so that makes it largely inaudible, for me, anyway.  Gonna try it with headphones in a bit.

Yeah, I noticed that -- seems to happen when switch to replay GENS, the audio slowly deteriorates...so if I had a long replay, it became pretty bad at the end.  Not sure why that happened though...I'll goof with the setting a few times next time.

Love the self-insight Depch, helpful when we hear from the person what they were thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kylewat    3

thank you. I think it is extremely hard to do. alot of the game comes from knowing how to put yourself in position. Depch gets extremely snake bit with both the goalie falling over especially the second time (the other was a good hard play.) Then Gilmour plays like he is cold as ice!

One of the easiest pointers I see is at like 27:40; the puck is firmly inside the blue line which will pull the d men into the offensive zone, and then the loose puck headed towards the boards. Did Depch make a mistake coming across? Not sure. I personally would have skated backwards but I'm in the minority with that one. Plabax clearly jumps on the opportunity to create a pretty much insta break. Similarly the last Gilmour one timer at 28:06 is setup by the pass before the one timer.

Anyway, I love watching these. Thanks

Edited by kylewat
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kingraph    87
25 minutes ago, kylewat said:

One of the easiest pointers I see is at like 27:40; the puck is firmly inside the blue line which will pull the d men into the offensive zone, and then the loose puck headed towards the boards. Did Depch make a mistake coming across? Not sure. I personally would have skated backwards but I'm in the minority with that one. Plabax clearly jumps on the opportunity to create a pretty much insta break.

Not sure I follow the question "did Depch make a mistake coming across?". 

Hawerchuk gets a pass to get into the offensive zone, and he's ahead of the play.  Depch starts to skate with him to the left boards to try and set up a scoring opportunity (I assume), and while doing so the puck gets tipped away from the AI defender.  Depch then immediately tries to gain control with Coffey, but gets clobbered by Davydov (#11), which subsequently leads to the breakaway.

Are you saying Depch made a mistake coming across the blue line?  Also not sure about what you mean skating backwards?  He was down by 2 goals with under 2 minutes to go, so I think he was doing the correct thing.

Untitled.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depch    22
36 minutes ago, kylewat said:

One of the easiest pointers I see is at like 27:40; the puck is firmly inside the blue line which will pull the d men into the offensive zone, and then the loose puck headed towards the boards. Did Depch make a mistake coming across? Not sure

There was nothing to be done there. I switched to the D-man there, but Coffey was skating forward and the momentum just carried over, impossible not to commit. That was a good strip by Plabax before the situation and a prime example why I say it's defence that creates opportunities for offence. Some people just see the good offence or the possible result from that, but miss the play that leads to it, defence is super important. Overall I also was down 2 goals, I could not just be able to sit around late in the third. I'm sure there are mistakes out there from both sides to point out, even that did Plabax make a mistake in the aggressive play that lead to the open room for Gilmour at that onetimer, especially if you consider a passive passive D approach.
 

Edited by Depch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kylewat    3
26 minutes ago, kingraph said:

Not sure I follow the question "did Depch make a mistake coming across?". 

Hawerchuk gets a pass to get into the offensive zone, and he's ahead of the play.  Depch starts to skate with him to the left boards to try and set up a scoring opportunity (I assume), and while doing so the puck gets tipped away from the AI defender.  Depch then immediately tries to gain control with Coffey, but gets clobbered by Davydov (#11), which subsequently leads to the breakaway.

Are you saying Depch made a mistake coming across the blue line?  Also not sure about what you mean skating backwards?  He was down by 2 goals with under 2 minutes to go, so I think he was doing the correct thing.

 

So I said I wasn't sure if he made a mistake; I said I would do it differently. He's in a bad position IMO that is unlikely to get much better. With all of his forwards on the same side of the goal, and the defense well positioned, skating across the ice inside the blue line isn't going to open up any passing lanes. It is simply an attempt to try to maintain control and get into a better position. The play that I really am pointing out is an aggressive (and obvious to a good player) play at the boards to create the break. My point in talking about skating across was to ask, "Is this just bad luck or is it preventable?" or even, "is it a something that creates an advantage? "

So that is the situation that I retreat over the blue line and exit my own zone because when you are in that position, not much good happens. I'm really the only one who does this, so I understand that it isn't a mainstream viewpoint. It can also end the same way that it did as well, giving up a break.

Edited by kylewat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kingraph    87
1 hour ago, kylewat said:

So I said I wasn't sure if he made a mistake; I said I would do it differently. He's in a bad position IMO that is unlikely to get much better. With all of his forwards on the same side of the goal, and the defense well positioned, skating across the ice inside the blue line isn't going to open up any passing lanes. It is simply an attempt to try to maintain control and get into a better position. The play that I really am pointing out is an aggressive (and obvious to a good player) play at the boards to create the break. My point in talking about skating across was to ask, "Is this just bad luck or is it preventable?" or even, "is it a something that creates an advantage? "

So that is the situation that I retreat over the blue line and exit my own zone because when you are in that position, not much good happens. I'm really the only one who does this, so I understand that it isn't a mainstream viewpoint. It can also end the same way that it did as well, giving up a break.

I think I understand  now -- instead of trying to create something after seeing the mess of F all on your left side, you'd skate back with Hawerchuck out of the offensive zone, and try to "reset" your offense for another rush with them in better position.  That's definitely one option, I know sometimes when I feel my guys are in the wrong spot, getting in my way, etc. I just stop and wait for everyone to reset.  It's definitely better than trying to force a play when guys are in a bad position.  I don't think it was a mistake by Depch per se, but it is cool to hear about an alternative approach that another player may have taken at that moment.  Pretty cool, thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depch    22
24 minutes ago, kingraph said:

instead of trying to create something after seeing the mess of F all on your left side, you'd skate back with Hawerchuck out of the offensive zone, and try to "reset" your offense for another rush with them in better position.

That would be a smart option, but I would feel "cheap" doing that for some reason. Perhaps I could use that against players who would use that move themselves, similar to 5 hole passes.

I thought Zep meant with Coffey, but that was impossible to stop.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TomKabs93    6

Turning back into your own end when youre down late in a game isnt cheap. If you had the lead late then that could be arguable, but pushing forward for the sake of pushing forward aint usually the best strategy

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    44
4 hours ago, Depch said:

That would be a smart option, but I would feel "cheap" doing that for some reason. Perhaps I could use that against players who would use that move themselves, similar to 5 hole passes.

I thought Zep meant with Coffey, but that was impossible to stop.

Having played so many exi's vs JV and his 5 hole pass, Zep w/ his rebound goal, Ice & Raph with their B shots, Seth with his Dump & Chase, Plabax with his lag switch :) and hearing guys byatch about my Blue Line 5 hole bombers, I've come to terms with it's an anything goes type site.

 

I try not to be a guy people don't want to play against, but no longer think, "OH, don't score like that."  There are too many guys doing extremely well at such a variety of cheap ways, that it's hard to consider not using them all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kylewat    3
12 hours ago, Brutus said:

my Blue Line 5 hole bombers, I've come to terms with it's an anything goes type site.

 

Obviously. The 5 hole slapper is so lame. Does it give you joy watching that weak dribble through the goalies legs?

 

19 hours ago, Depch said:

There was nothing to be done there. I switched to the D-man there, but Coffey was skating forward and the momentum just carried over, impossible not to commit. That wasa good strip by Plabax before the situation and a prime example why I say it's defence that creates opportunities for offence. Some people just see the good offence or the possible result from that, but miss the play that leads to it, defence is super important. 
 

 

Agree 1000%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brutus    44
3 hours ago, kylewat said:

Obviously. The 5 hole slapper is so lame. Does it give you joy watching that weak dribble through the goalies legs?

 

 

 

You see!!  I consider the dump tactics of Seth the most lame, the rebound goal easily the most "OMG, did you really get that desperate??" in my mind for goals/tactics.

 

I think since the blue line only works with guys hitting 5 shot power or higher, and needs to be timed right, and it exposes you to getting KO'd easy, to have risk/rewards tied into the goal AND always thought of it more as manly, like the blast through the goalie style shot.  Hull & Ray Ray are the only 2 I consistently ever score this with.

 

It's just another example that we ALL seem to have our own opinion on what is & is not cheap.  Therefore, I've moved into my mind of everything goes as the best way to play online.  Forget what is cheap or not cheap.

 

In fact, I've taken to enjoying it if I know it bothers you now :)  Quite a change from when I used to consider myself more like Depch, in trying to be fair, etc, but when fair is so subjective, what's the f-n point of it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now