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aqualizard

WBF Team Rankings

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aqualizard    42

Raph has a terrific thread ranking teams in the Classic ROM here:

NHL94 Team Rankings

The top 10, in order, are CHI, DET, BUF, MTL, CGY, VAN, BOS, DAL, WPG, TOR...

What would happen to rank using a WBF Classic ROM?  I am sure there would be a big change?  I have some ideas, but I would love to hear other people speculate what a WBF Team Ranking would be?  Pretty sure CHI would drop from #1... PIT and BOS gotta go up...

What do you think?


 

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jer_33    15

A lot of what Raph did in his rankings was looking at ADP and stats from GDL and Classic. Can we not do the same from Blitz and any recent WBF leagues?

http://www.blitz94.com/playerstats.asp?season=0&team=&coach=&position=Scoring&league=101&playoffs=false&orderby=PTSpG

Edited by jer_33

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aqualizard    42

Thanks for the heads up and link, Jer_33.  Related to your advice, you can also look at AJ's updated lineup thread, and see his notes with CB checking.

Although I am not well versed in rosters, I will give a stab to start things off.

These teams will get a big bump up:
NYR (with heavyweights Messier and Tikkanen (and Lightweight Gartner))
PIT (with heavyweights 66, Jagr, Francis and Tocchet, plus solid D in Murphy and Ulf)
BOS (with heavyweight Neely and Ruzicka, plus #1 heavyweight D-man Bourque)
TOR (all of a sudden there is a place for hard shooting Andreychuk and Clark)

I will say a new order, from best to worse, as:

CHI
BOS
MTL
PIT
DET
NYR
BUF
TOR
....still thinking
 

 

 

Edited by aqualizard

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kylewat    3
On 4/18/2017 at 8:52 AM, aqualizard said:

Thanks for the heads up and link, Jer_33.  Related to your advice, you can also look at AJ's updated lineup thread, and see his notes with CB checking.

Although I am not well versed in rosters, I will give a stab to start things off.

These teams will get a big bump up:
NYR (with heavyweights Messier and Tikkanen (and Lightweight Gartner))
PIT (with heavyweights 66, Jagr, Francis and Tocchet, plus solid D in Murphy and Ulf)
BOS (with heavyweight Neely and Ruzicka, plus #1 heavyweight D-man Bourque)
TOR (all of a sudden there is a place for hard shooting Andreychuk and Clark)

I will say a new order, from best to worse, as:

CHI
BOS
MTL
PIT
DET
NYR
BUF
TOR
....still thinking
 

 

 

So speed still kills, and NYR are still flawed. What is wrong with NYR? A chronic lack of accuracy. They become better, but still having the best shooting forward with 3 SHA is just hard to be elite. For the same reason, Detroit remains nasty. Buffalo belongs ahead of NYR IMO for that reason. Also the beezer isn't very good.

I think you are leaving out LA which gets a huge bump up with Robitaille, Blake, McSorely, and most importantly Sandstrom goes from pretty good, to unbelievably good. 

Pittsburgh and Boston obviously get huge legs up. and Pittsburgh probably becomes the best team.

I think Chicago goes down, down. Roenick suddenly has sidekicks, but being able to routinely take him down makes the combo less impressive than some of the others IMO.

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Brutus    45

For Chicago, I've not played w/ them WBF, only their players in a WBF league with a draft in place.

 

However, Eddy & Steve Smith are a real, real strong start to a defense.  The second option is a middle weight, 6 defensive awareness Chelios.  That's still one of the top defenses when you include goalie.

I think Chicago's non-JR forwards are still not at par even in WBF, as the weight isn't high enough to put them above the standard with their average speed and even less exciting shooting skills.

 

BUT, JR can still dance, and shoots with a 5/5.  With a STRONG home/away setting, if the advantages are no set to zero, I'd consider Chicago a top team in WBF.

 

No longer the top team though for sure.

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Brutus    45

However, imo, guys play WBF draft leagues, and play Classic, where the ROM is NOT WBF.

 

So, re-ranking the WBF of TEAM's, instead of players, does hold a lot of value to most guys I see asking for exi's or that play with me.

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TomKabs93    7

I agree about chicago brutus, and trudat zeppelin LA gets way better. Still hrudey in net tho, I could never win with that team lol

In my books detroit is still the best team in wbf. Yzer Cicc and Feds can still dance and snipe on anyone. Sure they do take a bit of a hit in the wbf world, but their skating and shooting stats remain stronger than the competition

 

Edited by TomKabs93

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Premium    18

I now believe the idea that DET is the best in the game is false. They have the best players, but the advantages I think take away from it. They are hampered by weak advantages. Nobody can win with Detroit (but me) in GENS A, how could that be? I do not think it is a coincidence.

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aqualizard    42

Good discussion guys, but what about providing your own WBF Team Rankings?  If nothing else, then a Top 3, even?  DET, BOS, PIT?

 

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Depch    22
15 hours ago, Premium said:

I now believe the idea that DET is the best in the game is false. They have the best players, but the advantages I think take away from it. They are hampered by weak advantages. Nobody can win with Detroit (but me) in GENS A, how could that be? I do not think it is a coincidence.

I think this is a troll attempt, but in case it is not it needs a clarification at least for not so familiar players with the game.

-Dallas has won Gens A as well and has the same home/away as Detroit. Your claim still stands that no one else could win with Detroit, but it is not because of advantages as Dallas proves that point wrong.
-In ETB home/away was changed to minimum effect and more teams ended up having better road record than home record than ever before, so it looks like advantages do play a part even in static rom. Their effect is probably closer to what Smoz already proved in his thread earlier. (I'm still guessing it affects the crowd, just a hunch)
-Having 0 disadvantage at away is better than having 1 (average) disadvantage. So Detroit & Dallas are better away teams than Montreal & Boston.
 

To the WBF teams.

Basically the teams with heavy skilled offence increaes value and the low weight offence loses a bit value. For defence light defence loses value but heavy skilled defence is as effective due to CB in Classic and I evaluate mainly the defensive skills there (just few d-men that become a bit more valuable).

-Nyr was a monster with Raph even in Classic, just steamrolled everyone, it is a top 10 team in Classic. And it will become even better in WBF.
-Boston is iffy. It loses out in Sweeney, so I think Boston becomes worse defensively. Sweeney-Bourque is gold in classic, but not so good in WBF. Wesley or G.Murphy does not compensate that with their check rating. Bourque is as effective defensively in Classic & WBF due to CB in Classic. I would probably not use Ruzicka & Neely both, would be too heavy for my taste. I would however use Neely this time in offence, so it becomes more skilled than in Classic for me.
-Pens become a monster team with Lemieux & Jagr on offence.
-Tor I think they're still quite the same, perhaps a notch better. Clark is still not good as he's only weight 8, but Andreychuk is good. I like him in Classic as well, that fatty onetimer is juicy.
-Vancouver loses out, but speed is still top 10 good.

Edited by Depch

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Premium    18

There has to be a reason people can't win with Detroit. It definitely is not a coincidence. If guys like flasox can win classic with Chicago, then surely Detroit should have more than one victory.

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Brutus    45

The sum of the parts do not always equal the whole.

To me, how a team's offense interacts with its defense can effect the team's ability to adjust their strategy, so while Detroit can usually outscore an opponent, they struggle to win on defense.

I'd have to go back and look at it, but I would wager that 3 things go into Detroit's lack of titles.

#1 The best coach playing at the time each classic season runs rarely seems interested in having the best team/greatest advantage.  Most don't want to be disadvantaged, but doesn't seem like the best guy has wanted/gotten Detroit.  I.e., I'd say Raph is best player playing right now & he's not taking Detroit even if offered more times than not.  A strong coach has used & lost with Detriot, but I don't recall the best losing.  Certainly not recently.

#2  the home/away advantages are set to a disadvantage for Detroit & in a short series, if the wrong players are cold, Detroit could easily be the less skilled team for at least half of the games in a 7 game series.  Add in issue #1, and it's a loss for Detroit.  

#3 Both Dino & Fedorov to me are average players if cold.  They lose their toddle ability from puck control and now skate too slow to do much.  Dino loses blue line range on his Slapper.  Most guys when you play with Detroit acknowledge that like Buffalo, the team chemistry is weak, especially between offense & defense.  They rarely seem to flow together.  So, you will score a TON of goals during the season, but come playoff time, it's very hard to adjust when the inevitable cold team hits the ice.

 

i think of you turned off hot/cold, you would see Detroit extremely tough to beat.  Good goalie, strong defensive players & 3 elite forwards with one top 3 & the other top 10!

 

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Brutus    45

Also, plabax and Coffey are masterful together do it is no surprise he won a title with them despite the hot/cold advantages.  Giving plabax both Cofffey & Yzerman plus a Z smart winger like Fedorov & it is lights out.

i know that's why he graced us with his troll presence on the Detroit comments, so I figured I'd get that glory accolades over so we would have to hear about it more.

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Premium    18

Some of the high-level coaches have played with Detroit: Freydey, Zalex, Raph, Seth, Flasox. They all lost with Detroit.

I also didn't use Coffey or Fedorov when I won with Detroit. Would it have helped? Sure. But, at the time I was still a noob and had almost zero knowledge of the players. I didn't know Coffey was fast, and I didn't know what Fedorov's stats were.

 

 

 

Edited by Premium

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Lupz27    3

I'd vote Boston as top WBF team, Ray Ray, Neely, Oates, and pick your preference of Wesley, or G Murphy to pair with Ray, and Moog has a long list of fans.

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