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Hey !

Why don't we create a clone of NHL'94 ?

I know we don't have the source code, but we can try to create our own NHL'94 game.

With all the editors and tools of the modern Age, it won't be so difficult. 

Let's dream !  An improved IA who can beat top players. Arena for every team, commentary, etcetera 

Edited by Pearate
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OK, start it up

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OK, let's do a Mega Brainstorming.

Step by step, I presume we need to find an Engine for the development. I do know some (I need to refresh my memory, and post the suggestions later)

And then we see what code we need to use.

First questions, do we keep the Pixel Art ? 2D or 3D, or a mix ? Do we do a perfect clone or something similar to Old Time Hockey, with the NHL'94 gameplay ?

What do we want in this game ?

Suggestion :

  • A perfect Online play, with automatize result upload.
  • Editing possibility, for teams, players, leagues, Arenas...
  • Commentary
  • Gameplay improvement (Original gameplay +  addition from 95-98 versions)
  • Possibility to edit the strategy for teams
  • A better AI (specially for the goalies)

 

That's a good start, I'm waiting for your suggestions :P

 

 

 

Edited by Pearate

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I would love love love for this to exist, and would be willing to work on it long term, but it's no trivial task and I have no clue where to even begin.

While we're in fantasy land though:

-unlimited team number, easy to add. Probably you choose team, then roster year.

-jersey selection before games

-optional enhancements to 94 gameplay; pass speed, turning tightness, lane filling in O-zone for wingers to one-time from slot...etc

-HD graphics to see more ice surface (full side to side view)

-online play with stat tracking, league support

Sigh...

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On 9/9/2017 at 8:40 AM, Pearate said:

First questions, do we keep the Pixel Art ? 2D or 3D, or a mix ? Do we do a perfect clone or something similar to Old Time Hockey, with the NHL'94 gameplay ?

What do we want in this game ?

I would say:
Step 1: Make a near perfect clone.
Step 2: Make sure it is bug free, and plays like NHL94 was supposed to
Step 3: THEN add enhancements

I even think the pixel art angle is cool.  I vote for keeping it pixelated!

 

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The reason NHL '94 is good is because it is the way it is. Tinker too much with the game and you will end up with a NHL '95 type thing. For example, if you edit the goalies too much you may mess up the near-perfect manual goalie system.

The ROM hacks we have available are almost enough to make the optimal version of NHL '94. Some things are missing such as the ability to quit the game,  aim your one-timers manually or the ability to poke check at will on goalie control (not during a penalty shot). Besides that, the only problems are the minor bugs such as the penalty shot bug.

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21 hours ago, Premium said:

The reason NHL '94 is good is because it is the way it is. Tinker too much with the game and you will end up with a NHL '95 type thing. For example, if you edit the goalies too much you may mess up the near-perfect manual goalie system.

The ROM hacks we have available are almost enough to make the optimal version of NHL '94. Some things are missing such as the ability to quit the game,  aim your one-timers manually or the ability to poke check at will on goalie control (not during a penalty shot). Besides that, the only problems are the minor bugs such as the penalty shot bug.

The reason why NHL '95 sucks, is because they change the engine of the game, and the feeling of play was lost.

The idea here is to keep the alchemy of the original NHL '94 with some enchantment.

Edited by Pearate

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12 hours ago, naples39 said:

I would love love love for this to exist, and would be willing to work on it long term, but it's no trivial task and I have no clue where to even begin.

While we're in fantasy land though:

-unlimited team number, easy to add. Probably you choose team, then roster year.

-jersey selection before games

-optional enhancements to 94 gameplay; pass speed, turning tightness, lane filling in O-zone for wingers to one-time from slot...etc

-HD graphics to see more ice surface (full side to side view)

-online play with stat tracking, league support

Sigh...

 

 

11 hours ago, aqualizard said:

I would say:
Step 1: Make a near perfect clone.
Step 2: Make sure it is bug free, and plays like NHL94 was supposed to
Step 3: THEN add enhancements

I even think the pixel art angle is cool.  I vote for keeping it pixelated!

 

 

10 hours ago, smozoma said:

Python's pygame could be a good starting point

https://www.pygame.org/news

 

 

I love this :)

I think recreate a near perfect clone is a good start, in pixel art with the HD in mind.

+ support for online play. And then the enchantments.

Here some links :

How to start   (French)  Python seems to be a good choice for the language

A list of possible engine

Other tools :

For 2D 

For sound and music :

Physics :

Online :  

Engine :

Edited by Pearate

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16 hours ago, Premium said:

The reason NHL '94 is good is because it is the way it is. Tinker too much with the game and you will end up with a NHL '95 type thing. For example, if you edit the goalies too much you may mess up the near-perfect manual goalie system.

The ROM hacks we have available are almost enough to make the optimal version of NHL '94. Some things are missing such as the ability to quit the game,  aim your one-timers manually or the ability to poke check at will on goalie control (not during a penalty shot). Besides that, the only problems are the minor bugs such as the penalty shot bug.

I think premium is right. The only thing I would add is the ability to host the game in the cloud. So you play with a browser (not with an emulator). Then you get rid of lag and it would be easy to connect online, even play with your phone (if you wanted to).

NHL '94 game server that can host online tourneys and keep track of players stats automatically, just like any game that is made new today.

 

So then aqua is also right... build the exact clone (or use the normal code as much as possible) and make it work on a modern engine to run it on a server. The game is so small and straight forward compared to today's online games.

16 hours ago, aqualizard said:

I would say:
Step 1: Make a near perfect clone.
Step 2: Make sure it is bug free, and plays like NHL94 was supposed to
Step 3: THEN add enhancements

I even think the pixel art angle is cool.  I vote for keeping it pixelated!

 

 

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5 hours ago, McMikey said:

I think premium is right. The only thing I would add is the ability to host the game in the cloud. So you play with a browser (not with an emulator). Then you get rid of lag and it would be easy to connect online, even play with your phone (if you wanted to).

I just discovered this already exist :blink:

http://www.ssega.com/play/nhl-hockey-94/1181

You can play a multiplayer online, use a joypad, and download your saves too  

http://www.ssega.com/page/help

We need to contact an admin from this site

Edited by Pearate

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On 9/12/2017 at 8:28 PM, Pearate said:

I just discovered this already exist :blink:

http://www.ssega.com/play/nhl-hockey-94/1181

You can play a multiplayer online, use a joypad, and download your saves too  

http://www.ssega.com/page/help

We need to contact an admin from this site

This is just a browser-based emulator. It's not much different from what we already have.

I agree that the top priority is to faithfully re-create NHL 94 gameplay. However, if that is the only goal, then just use emulators as we're doing now, and end discussion.

If a bigger goal is to have a real open-source version of the game that can add gameplay and non-gameplay features, and be more easy to make user mods, this online emulator doesn't help at all.

Edited by naples39

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Looking at the last 6 months, it looks like 94 is dead.

Does anyone play anymore?

ETB League was the last fairly good league and it had had a forfeit for the Finals and 2 of 20 coaches quit.
VHL Season 4 had 1 coach finish his season and barely 50% of the games played and a playoff that is still dragging on as it enters its 6th month of play.
Surviving Summer had almost zero participation.
Mikey and Halifax organized an awesome Live Tournament in Las Vegas and barely got 50 people to show up.

No Plabax!
No Trudatman!

:amazing:
 

 

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18 hours ago, naples39 said:

This is just a browser-based emulator. It's not much different from what we already have.

I agree that the top priority is to faithfully re-create NHL 94 gameplay. However, if that is the only goal, then just use emulators as we're doing now, and end discussion.

If a bigger goal is to have a real open-source version of the game that can add gameplay and non-gameplay features, and be more easy to make user mods, this online emulator doesn't help at all.

This was just an answer to McMickey, who wishes an emulator in a browser.

Edited by Pearate

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I was going to work on a ladder thing for nhl94online.com but i just never find time for it.. i think a ladder could be something to get people playing again...

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6 hours ago, CoachMac said:

Looking at the last 6 months, it looks like 94 is dead.

Does anyone play anymore?

ETB League was the last fairly good league and it had had a forfeit for the Finals and 2 of 20 coaches quit.
VHL Season 4 had 1 coach finish his season and barely 50% of the games played and a playoff that is still dragging on as it enters its 6th month of play.
Surviving Summer had almost zero participation.
Mikey and Halifax organized an awesome Live Tournament in Las Vegas and barely got 50 people to show up.

No Plabax!
No Trudatman!

:amazing:
 

 

Yeah, our sweet beautiful game looks like its reached the end of its incredible competitive lifespan.

 

It could bounce back, but thats looking pretty unlikely at the moment as like you said, this has been 6 months with no pulse.

 

Theres a whole lot of conflicting opinion drama regarding WHAT exactly killed 94s momentum, but to me it looks like a few different things caused a snowball effect of death. Some people lost interest because of 1 thing, others for something else, and then people lose interest because others are losing interest, and we end up with this.

 

Its especially hard to motivate some of the more competitive people to play when the competition levels are at such a low level.

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The access to competitive NHL '94 has to involve or it will die out. Emulators and desktop/laptop are dying as well. 

I haven't played a single game of NHL '94 online. So I'm no expert on that process but until you can play NHL '94 on a tablet or phone (with a USB controller or keyboard) you will, of course, see a decline. I have tons of experience with network television and there biggest threat and what will kill them, in the end, is streaming services (NETFLIX). In a way, NHL94.com has the same problem. What worked for to play 94 five to ten years ago is becoming obsolete. 

There are thousands of people out there that want to play NHL '94 but the access is limited as you have to have computer knowledge to play. If this game was on the PlayStation network and playable though modern consoles, you would have almost unlimited competition and the talent of players would be insane.  So the answer might be as simple as to convince EA Sports to re-release the game online. A simple www.change.org might be all that it takes to get the puck rolling. This might sound stupid at first but at least this is a free option. 

32 minutes ago, TomKabs93 said:

Yeah, our sweet beautiful game looks like its reached the end of its incredible competitive lifespan.

It's not the game that's dying its the medium at which its played on. 

 

Resist,

M

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The medium is the message.

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Momentum stopped (possibly temporarily) because the leagues kept catering to the slackers. Even after the Plabax League, the community still came up with leagues primarily designed for slackers, and guys who would show dedication to the game were constantly brushed to the side.

The slacking here is at an extreme. Go anywhere else and you will see that people will find the time to do something if they really want to do it. Here, we constantly have to listen to excuses and wait 25-30 days to finish a season due to guys who claim they are "busy" and have no time to play NHL '94.  Despite the fact that these guys are so damn busy.. they keep signing up, and whenever you boot them / suggest they don't play, you are the bad guy!

It gets silly, especially when you look at another community with similar demographics such as the Tecmo Community and see that they have no issues there. No tolerance for bullshit, less coach turnover, quicker seasons, more seasons, more fun. They are still going strong, and they get 100% completion regularly. I've been around for six years, and I've never played in a league with 100% completion.

There is definitely still an interest in the game. The game is too fun for people to stop playing. What really drives the interest level (in my opinion) is the quality of the online experience, which is primarily measured through leagues.

I think the community could be active with the right league setup. I find the game fun, but I don't like waiting 30 days to play minpind, and I don't like waiting 25 days for AJ to play a playoff series.

 

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4 hours ago, Premium said:

Momentum stopped (possibly temporarily) because the leagues kept catering to the slackers. Even after the Plabax League, the community still came up with leagues primarily designed for slackers, and guys who would show dedication to the game were constantly brushed to the side.

The slacking here is at an extreme. Go anywhere else and you will see that people will find the time to do something if they really want to do it. Here, we constantly have to listen to excuses and wait 25-30 days to finish a season due to guys who claim they are "busy" and have no time to play NHL '94.  Despite the fact that these guys are so damn busy.. they keep signing up, and whenever you boot them / suggest they don't play, you are the bad guy!

It gets silly, especially when you look at another community with similar demographics such as the Tecmo Community and see that they have no issues there. No tolerance for bullshit, less coach turnover, quicker seasons, more seasons, more fun. They are still going strong, and they get 100% completion regularly. I've been around for six years, and I've never played in a league with 100% completion.

There is definitely still an interest in the game. The game is too fun for people to stop playing. What really drives the interest level (in my opinion) is the quality of the online experience, which is primarily measured through leagues.

I think the community could be active with the right league setup. I find the game fun, but I don't like waiting 30 days to play minpind, and I don't like waiting 25 days for AJ to play a playoff series.

 

:big_smile:

When the Premium Retro League expands we will be happy to have you!

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On 9/11/2017 at 10:17 PM, aqualizard said:

I would say:
Step 1: Make a near perfect clone.
Step 2: Make sure it is bug free, and plays like NHL94 was supposed to
Step 3: THEN add enhancements

I even think the pixel art angle is cool.  I vote for keeping it pixelated!

 

this is what Zelda Classic did.  by 1.90 they had added and tested so many features that it was at the level equivalent to our reasonable dreams.  this was like fifteen years ago, too.  based on NES, incorporating SNES-level concepts, it isn't a perfect parallel, but the advances in technology surely make up that gap in relevance.  only the most advanced NES Zelda players would know the replication wasn't the original.  minute precision was mimicked well.  it is doable.

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On 9/17/2017 at 6:20 AM, Premium said:

There is definitely still an interest in the game. The game is too fun for people to stop playing. What really drives the interest level (in my opinion) is the quality of the online experience, which is primarily measured through leagues.

I think the community could be active with the right league setup. I find the game fun, but I don't like waiting 30 days to play minpind, and I don't like waiting 25 days for AJ to play a playoff series.

Plabax, if you still find it fun, and you ran a successful league (following your own tight deadlines and no mercy) then why don't you keep running your league?  Everyone who participated (that didn't get booted, lol) thought it was a success, myself included?  Quit complaining about how other leagues are doing it wrong and lead by example. :)

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I stopped running Plablegs because I decided to stop playing. As for leading by example, it doesn't matter because there are too many people in the community who attempt to slander my character, take jabs at me and are more than happy to use my reputation against me. I don't think me being a "leader" is a realistic option.

It's up to the other figures with the power, but those guys are more concerned with earning "high fives" and keeping their reputation up rather than doing what's right for the community.

On 2/12/2017 at 1:32 PM, Uncle Seth said:

The design of Plablegs and management of the league has been a breath of fresh air.  It's been inspiring to see what can be done if expectations are established and enforced.  For some of us, it's like "hey, maybe we can change this place for the better".  Then Brutus makes his league that reverts back to the old ways, and I think Plabs feels like the progress has been undermined.  Sure, Brutus can make whatever league he wants and his intentions are good.  People will join and most likely have a lot of fun. Yet it doesn't change the fact that it seems like we're going backwards and the wind has been taken out of the sails.  The ones who have been demanding a change in culture are once again alienated.  At least that's how I feel. 

This site is dying and none of you can see it happening.  The community should have listened to hockey.  They still don't get it and it seems they never will.

I agree with what Seth said here. Seth and I are like a boat driver who started to steer the Titanic clear of the iceberg knowing what would happen if the ship were to hit the iceberg, but Et-Tu-Brute is another boat driver who deliberately put the Titanic back in the path of the iceberg (for a good reason) thinking nothing bad would happen.

Edited by Premium

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I still get a laugh that you log in & talk to yourself about yourself while making sure to apply some flawed logic to everything you go on & on about.

Easily one of the biggest doucheags of all time.

brutus killed Nhl 94.

 

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6 hours ago, Brutus said:

I still get a laugh that you log in & talk to yourself about yourself while making sure to apply some flawed logic to everything you go on & on about.

Easily one of the biggest doucheags of all time.

brutus killed Nhl 94.

 

I wasn't talking to myself. I was replying to aqualizard.

Uncle Seth made the original comment, not me. I agree with what he said because it appears to be true. You may not like it, but you can't point out anything wrong in the comment. 

"Brutus killed NHL '94" is definitely not the message I am trying to portray. Here is a better way of putting it: NHL '94 is a patient on life support. Plablegs is the medication, Et-Tu-Brute is a doctor who unplugged NHL '94 from life support but didn't use the medication (due to consent), thinking nothing bad would happen despite some of his colleagues telling him the patient would die. 

That situation wouldn't make the doctor a killer, but you could say whether or not the patient survived was 100% in the doctor's hands.

Edited by Premium

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Let's just say, in your analogy, most doctors agreed that trying chemotherapy on a patient too weak to survive it wouldn't work  and that trying an alternative medicine, while likely to fail as well, was chosen.

 

Highlighting only the points you want to see is a fools gold approach to anything.

Seth was quitting if he had to play in any format not exactly how he wanted it.  He had become the MOST difficult member to placate of late & his constant byatching I feel helped drive turn out down. You were quitting out of boredom, as numerous times stated by you.  Your constant negative post/comments certainly didn't help, IMO, but your total efforts as a whole I'm sure helped more than not for sure.

Several coaches in the league had privately messaged me that they enjoyed Plablegs ( no penalties & fast paced) occasionally but would not want to keep doing it multiple seasons consecutively.

In Plablegs, you had several owners not finish/cancel/forfeit/replace as well, similar to all previous leagues.  Given you were OUT of your own league, and I didn't see even the SAME number of available coaches willing to replay Plablegs 2, how is not running a 12 coach Plablegs what killed Nhl 94?

i mean if 3-4 years ago, not using your league format was the reason for the decline, I can read that argument & state, I might not 100% agree with it, but it's harder to argue against it, S there were 40-50 coaches at times, and 20 active at all times, so a no nonsense approach with replacements /forfeits would have room to keep moving.

But last year? When the site was under 20 TOTAL active coaches.  Lolololol

Thsts just using clown talk cause you miss your crying partner Seth.

 

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Hey how about we start GDL with target of 16 coaches, 2 8 team divisions and set the a start date of 11/15.

lets see the turnout, maybe add in Halifaxs email blast for classic that a draft league will also be starting.  

 

This is post mortem analysis is useless 

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3 hours ago, IceStorm70 said:

Hey how about we start GDL with target of 16 coaches, 2 8 team divisions and set the a start date of 11/15...

This is post mortem analysis is useless 

Agree 1000%. Don't waste your time arguing.  (That is more for Brutus than Plabs... I do not think Plabax has a functioning off switch.)

GDL idea sounds great, too.  

Edited by aqualizard

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4 hours ago, Brutus said:

Let's just say, in your analogy, most doctors agreed that trying chemotherapy on a patient too weak to survive it wouldn't work  and that trying an alternative medicine, while likely to fail as well, was chosen.

 

Highlighting only the points you want to see is a fools gold approach to anything.

Seth was quitting if he had to play in any format not exactly how he wanted it.  He had become the MOST difficult member to placate of late & his constant byatching I feel helped drive turn out down. You were quitting out of boredom, as numerous times stated by you.  Your constant negative post/comments certainly didn't help, IMO, but your total efforts as a whole I'm sure helped more than not for sure.

Several coaches in the league had privately messaged me that they enjoyed Plablegs ( no penalties & fast paced) occasionally but would not want to keep doing it multiple seasons consecutively.

In Plablegs, you had several owners not finish/cancel/forfeit/replace as well, similar to all previous leagues.  Given you were OUT of your own league, and I didn't see even the SAME number of available coaches willing to replay Plablegs 2, how is not running a 12 coach Plablegs what killed Nhl 94?

i mean if 3-4 years ago, not using your league format was the reason for the decline, I can read that argument & state, I might not 100% agree with it, but it's harder to argue against it, S there were 40-50 coaches at times, and 20 active at all times, so a no nonsense approach with replacements /forfeits would have room to keep moving.

But last year? When the site was under 20 TOTAL active coaches.  Lolololol

Thsts just using clown talk cause you miss your crying partner Seth.

 

This is the way I see it:

The main goal of Plabax League was to influence all other leagues to be like mine, and for the community to model itself after the Tecmo community. Things seemed to be going on the right track, but unfortunately my progress was undermined because Et-Tu-Brute reverted to the old league structure. Instead of the community as a whole moving forward, my rule-set became an "alternative" rather than the standard, and we ended up moving backwards. It was an indirect way of the community saying, "we are not changing our ways". That is why I think not running Plablegs didn't kill NHL '94. 

Another thing to note is that 99% of slackers are slackers only because the community doesn't want to crack down on it. You are not grasping it correctly. For example, you say there were 40-50 coaches at times, and 20 were active. Under my method, if 40-50 coaches are around, then they are all likely active. The goal is not to have strict deadlines to kick the slackers out, the goal is to have strict deadlines so slackers don't exist. The point is.... slacking only exists because it's allowed (and supported) here. If there was absolutely no tolerance for it, then almost every single coach would be active, and you would likely never need a replacement outside of special events such as vacation, childbirth, divorce, etc.

Lastly, there were more than 20 coaches last year. GDL 16 had at least 27 different coaches participate in it. 

 

 

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