smozoma Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I've been meaning to put together a ladder league forever. The intention is to integrate it into nhl94online.com, but that'll take some time, so I figure I might as well just start it up without the website, then having the data will encourage me to get started on the website. The system will use an Elo-like rating system that will take into account the quality of the teams used. However to make things simpler at the start I want to factor out the team differences and get straight to the player(coach) ratings. So... at first all games are same-teams! Here's what you need to do: Play a home-and-home with identical teams (same teams for both games, ie both players are say Montreal for both games) Classic ROM only! Weight bug fix will be introduced later. Make save-states of both games. Label them in a way that indicates who was the home team, so for example kingraph-MTL@MTL-icestor.gs0, icestorm-MTL@MTL-kingraph.gs1 Also indicate if it's genesis or SNES Zip both save states into one zip file. If you don't know how, please ask. Make a post on this thread and attach the zip file. Please also write the scores of both games and who won them (kingraph MTL 3 @ 2 MTL icestorm, icestorm MTL 5 @ 3 MTL kingraph) Then I'll periodically update the ratings on here while also working on the website. Initial ratings will probably be based on the latest IIHF style classic ratings, then results from this thread will be introduced and modify the ratings Here are the current ratings (the 'divisions' are just groups of powers of 2: 1/2/4/8/16...): Sega Rnk Elo Coach ---Champ-------------------- 1 2162 kingraph -> 2177->2162 ---Challengers-------------- 2 2052 Depch 3 1987 angryjay93 ---Elite-------------------- 4 1940 Uncle Seth 5 1902 swos 6 1871 FlamingPavelBure 7 1844 zeppelin55 -> 1844->1849 ---Good--------------------- 8 1819 ------ 9 1796 Icestorm NHL94 10 1776 Sicarius Fulgur 11 1756 Vocally Caged 12 1738 brutus 13 1721 TomKabs93 14 1704 jmj 15 1688 canadiensfan66 ----Improving---------------- 16 1673 TexasPachyderm 17 1658 hokkeefan2 18 1644 Begley15 19 1630 Lupz27 -> 1630->1626 20 1616 Gretzkyonacold 21 1602 CBK26 22 1589 Evan 23 1576 Fitzo 24 1563 AtomicRaven 25 1525 smozoma -> 1525->1536->1532->1547->1551 26 1550 RoBro 27 1538 JackVandal 28 1513 minpind 29 1500 skeletor 30 1487 skip 31 1475 Darko ---Potential----------------- 32 1462 clockwise 33 1450 jer_33 34 1437 wwojo75 35 1424 aqualizard 36 1411 scribe99 37 1398 monkeyjuice1702 38 1384 kgman01 39 1370 LABS_66 40 1356 eggink444 41 1342 Pearate 42 1327 lasyoen 43 1312 maverick_z 44 1296 Northway Native 45 1279 McMarkis 46 1262 chefstar88 47 1244 millertime2325 48 1224 CoachMac 49 1204 jackandjose 50 1181 Wittgenstein 51 1156 mikey_mac94 52 1129 SoCalKing 53 1098 jagr68 54 1060 Culls17 55 1013 donnybrook 56 948 orangeblack92 57 823 jvc621 SNES Rnk Elo Coach ---Champ-------------------- 1 2127 Oilers442 ---Challengers-------------- 2 1994 BobKudelski26 3 1922 annatar ---Elite-------------------- 4 1870 angryjay93 5 1828 McMarkis 6 1792 c4outlaws 7 1760 BlackDevil19 ---Good--------------------- 8 1731 stheds2000 9 1705 kingraph 10 1680 jbalicki10 11 1656 Grayto 12 1634 BoKnowsNHL94 13 1612 Joe Baker 14 1591 matticefire 15 1570 pondhcky1 ---Potential---------------- 16 1550 tylerdeanhill 17 1530 rmac111 18 1510 Hazmat13 19 1490 fenty62 20 1470 NorthwayNative 21 1450 Shaftman 22 1430 The90Jacket 23 1409 etevans101 24 1388 crash46 25 1366 chaos 26 1344 heymelo27 27 1320 Jackandjose 28 1295 kupuck19 29 1269 the1jasontaylor 30 1240 schwartz 31 1208 Brutus 32 1172 Omega-Red 33 1130 tommy1978 34 1078 Fank009 35 1006 singelmamma 36 873 marchawg 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 example post: Quote Genesis smozoma TOR 3 @ 7 TOR kingraph kingraph TOR 5 (OT) @ 4 TOR smozoma (smozoma-kingraph-TOR.zip attached) Note: overtime is important to the results the team/player listed after the @ is the home team. so it's <away player, team, score> @ <home player, team score> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Starting rankings are classic league iihf ratings, minus 400 points. 1500 is considered average (1900 iihf). based on classic league IIHF ratings, mapped to a normal distribution around an average rating of 1500. If you don't have a classic league rating, you start at 1500 in the ladder league ratings. http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/14399-classic-iihf-style-rankings-updated/& (Can the iihf ratings be updated based on recent classic leagues to give an accurate starting point for the ladder league?) Feel free to start playing, we don't need the iihf ratings to get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 46 minutes ago, smozoma said: Starting rankings are classic league iihf ratings, minus 400 points. 1500 is considered average (1900 iihf). http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/14399-classic-iihf-style-rankings-updated/& (Can the iihf ratings be updated based on recent classic leagues to give an accurate starting point for the ladder league?) Yes sir, I can update that late tonight probably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 I updated the Genesis classic standings to Fall'16. I didn't do SNES yet, I don't think those guys even play exis, so not a particular rush. I hope this works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Starting ratings have been added the first post! These are approximations based on an average rating of 1500 and standard deviation of 285, and ranking based on the IIHF classic rankings. Generally you should only challenge people in either the same group as you or an adjacent group, but it's not a strict rule. In theory if you have 400 more Elo points than someone, you should beat them 90% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer_33 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Cool stuff.. and look who's pulling up the #33 ranking! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Would there be more interest in this if I gave it a league-like flavour? Sign up below. The 'schedule' will be 4 games against everyone. Each pair of games must be the same teams. So you might play 2 games as DET and 2 as PIT... With 26 teams to choose from, I'm sure you can agree on some teams to play with without it being assigned, but I could come up with random assignments, or a method of determining mutually-agreeable teams, if necessary. So that more teams get used, let's say you can only use a team for up to 4 total games (because I also want to gather info about home/away strength of the teams) The standings for the league will be both your 'Elo' rating score, as well as your change in 'Elo' from when you started. So if you're low on the starting rankings, if you perform well you will be high on the 'change in Elo' scale. You can begin playing and submitting games immediately (submission rules in the firstpost)! As more guys join, the "schedule" automatically expands.. Season 2 will discard the same-teams rule (edit: as well as the home-and-home) Season 3 will introduce optional line changes, penalties, offsides... Game rules are the usual rules, until season 3. Signed up: --------------------- smozoma (Sega and SNES) jer_33 (Sega) CoachMac (just Sega?) You can do Sega, SNES, or both. Also, you don't really even need to sign up, you can just start playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer_33 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) I'll sign-up, and try to get some games (Sega only) like this done during Classic. Edited October 26, 2017 by jer_33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 My guess is at the start of Classic, and Coach's Retro league, this is not getting as much attention. I will remember if I play exis to suggest same teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachMac Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, kingraph said: My guess is at the start of Classic, and Coach's Retro league, this is not getting as much attention. I will remember if I play exis to suggest same teams. +1, but IN. Edited October 27, 2017 by CoachMac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqualizard Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, smozoma said: Would there be more interest in this if I gave it a league-like flavour? Sign up below. The 'schedule' will be 4 games against everyone. Each pair of games... Yes, I would be much more interested if it were a league. Also, if it was running during down time, like after Classic is complete (or at least when it is winding down). Just my $.02... Edited October 26, 2017 by aqualizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, aqualizard said: Yes, I would be much more interested if it were a league. Also, if it was running during down time, like after Classic is complete (or at least when it is winding down). Just my $.02... The intention is that it's basically a league for exis. So if you just want to play some games and can't find someone in whatever league you're in, you can always play some exis and submit them. In the meantime, you can join up if you want, and play whenever you can find guys, and not worry too much about incomplete games. You don't even need to play guys who are "in" the league -- any games against any guys can count. Also, eventually Classic league games will automatically be incorporated into your ladder ratings (it'll take your team's strength into account when adjusting your rating) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqualizard Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, smozoma said: The intention is that it's basically a league for exis. So if you just want to play some games and can't find someone in whatever league you're in, you can always play some exis and submit them. In the meantime, you can join up if you want, and play whenever you can find guys, and not worry too much about incomplete games. You don't even need to play guys who are "in" the league -- any games against any guys can count. Also, eventually Classic league games will automatically be incorporated into your ladder ratings (it'll take your team's strength into account when adjusting your rating) I dunno, I feel like if it was a league, or if games somehow seemed more "official", it would be better. I know I take "real" games a lot more seriously than exis. (Yes, I know you could say "Well play these as if they are real," but it seems different to me. Especially if I just do the odd one here and there, as opposed to during a dedicated "Ladder League Season".) I am probably just being nitpicky, but I thought I would share my OCD thoughts. On another note, I think you should should come up with a name for the person who asked to be removed from the list instead of "-------". I think "Mr.Contrarian" or "Doogie Howser" or something would be more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachMac Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 5 hours ago, kingraph said: My guess is at the start of Classic, and Coach's Retro league, this is not getting as much attention. I will remember if I play exis to suggest same teams. +1, but IN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 54 minutes ago, aqualizard said: I dunno, I feel like if it was a league, or if games somehow seemed more "official", it would be better. I know I take "real" games a lot more seriously than exis. (Yes, I know you could say "Well play these as if they are real," but it seems different to me. Especially if I just do the odd one here and there, as opposed to during a dedicated "Ladder League Season".) Totally understandable! It just fills a void of, minimal organization/coordination but still gives recognizable achievement. Definitely not for everyone, but it is more in line with modern ranked games like DOTA/LOL/HOTS, overwatch, where you play to get to gold or platinum or whatever ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer_33 Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 Well, then we need to give the ladder rankings! Superstar, All-Star, Beer-league plug, Pylon... Ladder league would certainly become a great resource for splitting A/B division leagues in the future.. MOAR DATA! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 First games! Genesis zeppelin55 QUE 3 @ 2 QUE smozoma smozoma QUE 1 @ 5 QUE zep ---- and the Elo rating changes... each 2-game series has 8 points up for grab for calculating Elo: win=4, OTW=3, T=2, OTL=1, L=0. Add those up, divide by 8 and you get the series score for calculation purposes. (Note: that doesn't mean our ratings will change by up to 8 points. The value is used as a parameter for the Elo calculation) starting: zeppelin55=1844, smozoma=1536, that says zepp is expected to get 6.88 points in this matchup (likelihood of winning is 86% according to (http://www.3dkingdoms.com/chess/elo.htm) and multiply that by 8) result: zepp won 2-0, no overtimes = (4+4)/8 = 100% change: Zeppelin55: +4.46, smozoma: -4.46 ending: Zeppelin55: 1849, smozoma: 1532 zep-2-smoz-0-QUE.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Games from a couple days ago. I hit up aqua for games, forgetting he said he wasn't too interested on here... offered to leave the games off, but he said to go ahead and include them. Previous series vs zepp's score adjustment reworked to reflect my Elo change from this series. Genesis smozoma BUF 3 @ 2 BUF aqualizard aqualizard BUF 1 @ 3 BUF smozoma smoz-8-aqua-0.zip ---- Start Odds Result Change Final smozoma 1525 64% W + W = 8 +11.48 1536 aqualizard 1424 36% L + L = 0 -11.48 1413 League standings: Record(Series) Record(Pts) Pts% Change Current Zeppelin55 1-0-0 8-0 1.000 +4.66 1849 smozoma 1-1-0 8-8 0.500 +6.82 1532 aqualizard 0-1-0 0-8 0.000 -11.48 1413 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 An upset! If a tied series can be an upset... KingRaph DAL 3 @ 2 DAL smozoma smozoma DAL 4 @ 3 DAL KingRaph KingRaph-4-smozoma-4-DAL.zip ------ Start Odds Result Change Final KingRaph 2177 98% W + L = 4 -15.24 2162 smozoma 1532 2% L + W = 4 +15.24 1547 Note that even though the series was tied, points are transferred from the higher-rated player to the lower-rated player. Standings: Sega Record(Series) Record(Pts) Pts% Change Current KingRaph 0-0-1 4-4 0.500 -15.24 2162 Zeppelin55 1-0-0 8-0 1.000 +4.66 1849 smozoma 1-1-1 12-12 0.500 +22.06 1547 aqualizard 0-1-0 0-8 0.000 -11.48 1413 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smozoma Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Another split! lupz DET 1 @ 5 DET smozoma smozoma DET 5 @ 6 DET lupz smozoma-4-lupz-4-DET.zip ---- Start Odds Result Change Final Lupz27 1630 62% L + W = 4 -3.75 1626 smozoma 1547 38% W + L = 4 +3.75 1551 Standings Sega Record(Series) Record(Pts) Pts% Change Current KingRaph 0-0-1 4-4 0.500 -15.24 2162 Zeppelin55 1-0-0 8-0 1.000 +4.66 1849 Lupz27 0-0-1 4-4 0.500 -3.75 1626 smozoma 1-1-2 16-16 0.500 +25.81 1551 aqualizard 0-1-0 0-8 0.000 -11.48 1413 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfMANhalfDONUT Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) This was the whole idea I had behind nhl94hockey.com but no one wanted it because "I don't have time for exhibition games." I had about 40 or so people signed up at any given time, but it ended up being largely me and my buddy Kero5hin doing all the gaming. Admittedly, my playtime has dropped in the last couple years, but I still update the site with minor bug fixes and stuff. Actually doing a couple bugfixes at the moment! Hopefully it works out for you where it didn't for me. I honestly think the largest problem I had was no instant name recognition in this community. It's very insular and cliquey. EDIT: btw my name on https://nhl94hockey.com is halfMANhalfDONUT and Kero5hin is HeatRash (in case any of you want to play us at any point) Edited January 16, 2018 by marchawg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqualizard Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hey Marchawg, I love your site! It looks awesome! Super clean and polished. Atomic and I "borrowed" heavily from it for our own exi tracking site, nhl94rocks. (Doesn't do ELO ratings or anything fancy, just saves stats from 3, 5, or 7 game "exi" series.) Yeah, it is tough to get people to try something new. Our own site is mostly used by me and Atomic, but we are ok with that, because we just built it to track our own exis against each other. Cheers! And here is hoping your site takes off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfMANhalfDONUT Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Haha, that's exactly how I feel about nhl94hockey -- I'm fine with only tracking me vs kero5hin/heatrash. I've archived a bunch of our games, but we have over 4000 games between us over the past 5 years of that site's existence. Btw, I did have an old open source version of my site, but it's well out of date now (sorry, I haven't been a good open sourcer ). I have been thinking of replatforming it and re-releasing it with all the new stuff. If I do that, I'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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