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aqualizard

Keepers and Parity

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I have been thinking about the Keeper situation.  

Originally, I (and some others) thought that once you have a Keeper, you have him permanently.  Coach Mac mentioned that he doesn't want an all star team accumulated, like the Oilers were, and you don't get any permanent keepers.  Every year is a new year, with only 1 or 2 carried over from the year before.  And the finaists get zero.  Well, after pondering this, I have found (what I think is) a flaw in that scenario.

I will probably make the playoffs this year.  And there is an outside chance I could even make the finals.  For hypothetical reasons, to illustrate the flaw I see, let's say I make the finals with King Raph.

---> START OF HYPOTHETICAL (Though entirely possible!) SITUATION
For me to make the finals it took me assembling a Dream Team, with two keepers (66 and 88) and a high draft pick (starting with Roy) because I did so poor the year before.  For Raph to make the finals, it took... nothing but his insane talent;  no keepers and a low pick.  I got where I am because of medium skill and a lot of "welfare", Raph got there with no "welfare" and all skill!  This is great and makes sense.  For THIS year.

BUT!  As I understand it, the two finalists will then get a low pick, and no keepers next season!  Raph will do just fine.  But if a weaker player (me!) then loses all of his keepers, and gets no advantage the next season, I will absolutely be starting at the bottom again.  Even worse than expansion teams. (Because I will be picking even further down than they did.)  This is not good for anyone.  We want parity, right?
---> END OF HYPOTHETICAL (Though entirely possible!) SITUATION

Here is what I suggest.

We take into account how many keepers a person currently has, and factor that into the next season.  If someone makes the finals, that team is strong, and they should definitely not get an "extra" keeper.  But if they got to the finals because they have "some" keepers, to strip them all away is too drastic.  And even though Jer_33 had two keepers this season, he still didn't make playoffs, so I think he should get at least 2 keepers still.  After all, his advantage wasn't big enough to boost his team to the playoffs, so why take that advantage away?  What I think is fair is something like this:

Finish top 2: You are allowed a max of 1 keeper, but if you never had one you get +0
Finish 3-8: You are allowed a max of 2 keepers, but if you never had one you get +1
Finish 9-10: You are allowed a max of 2 keepers, but if you never had one you get +2

Yes, this is more complicated.  But it is not *that*complicated.  Basically you are never allowed more than 2 keepers.  But there is a "legacy" component that allows people that need them to keep 1 or 2.  In this scenario, it is possible Raph will never get a keeper.  (The dude doesn't appear to need them!)  And it is possible a weak player will always have 2 keepers.  But I think it would make things much more even, overall.  

What do you think?

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I think if you get a super team & get to keep super players for multiple seasons & then get into the finals, it's worth having to start over.

i like the idea of eventually losing your keeper team if it gets too strong to beat.

i understand your pints clearly.  They were well articulated with excellent analogies!

i just disagree.  

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Aqua, I absolutely love your thoughts and passion for this game, but if you make the Finals you will get no keepers.

Season 3 will be Norris Division and 1961.
Season 4 will be Smythe Division and 1966

Season 5 will be a surprise draft pool.

Season 6 I am not sure about yet.

I do appreciate your input.
You have done a great job assembling a Dream Team and you have a legit shot at winning the Bailey Bobble.

WIN NOW!

 

Edited by CoachMac

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I am a team player and fine with whatever decision.  :)

But I do hope people understand in the situation I outlined, I would not have a Dream Team.  I would retain only a single Keeper.  That is, my team would be reduced.

In the situation I outlined,  Jer_33 would keep 2 guys, and (likely) have a similar team to what he does already.

The bottom guys only would get a boost, and (essentially) A guys that make the finals would get nothing.

My suggestion creates parity -- more teams in the middle -- it does not foster Dream Teams.   For welfare teams that make finals, starting from scratch again seems strange (cruel and unsual), whereas "knocking them down a notch" back to the middle seems fair.

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For the record, I only had 1 keeper last season (Messier).

I do think that we should scale the retro guys back to 1/team, and/or limit the number of good retro players.  The A guys are still putting together really good teams, without having to worry that they cannot keep them. 

 

Edited by jer_33

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Basically what @Brutus said. 

You make the finals, that is your season to win!  The following season may be a rebuilding for you, but that means some other person has a chance to win the cup/bobble head!  Figuring out if this is your strong season also factors into the draft. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, jer_33 said:

 

I do think that we should scale the retro guys back to 1/team, and/or limit the number of good retro players.  The A guys are still putting together really good teams, without having to worry that they cannot keep them. 

 

I agree to an extent.

The main reason I made more Retro guys available is we went from 6 to 10 teams and I wanted more players than the 6 Adams teams, especially considering 1 of the teams was Ottawa.

I am not sure exactly what that will look like in Season 3, but need everyones input on that part.

Big question is How many teams we have in season 3?

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You can't have your cake, and eat it to man!  Enjoy the ride IF you get a chance at the Bailey Bobble give it all you got, and start the rebuild the following season.

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Agree.  Thats part of the fun of this, you have your championship window and go for it.  Love how Coach set this up and prefer it stays the same.  Sorry Aqua.

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Lol no problem, people!  I am not trying to rig the system here.  There is a very strong chance I will NOT be in the finals, and not have to do a 100% rebuild.

Just wanted to mention an idea, or get a dialogue going for other ideas... Coach seems very open to ideas that benefit the league as a whole. (I thought I had a good one, but I guess I came up with a stinker. :P) 

PS: Sorry I misrepresented your keeper situation, Jer_33.  Honest mistake.  :)

Edited by aqualizard
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20 minutes ago, corbettkb said:

Agree.  Thats part of the fun of this, you have your championship window and go for it.  Love how Coach set this up and prefer it stays the same.  Sorry Aqua.

Thanks.  I have relied heavily on all of you and especially KingRaph and Ice who are the ultimate sportsmen IMO.
It has been fun and created buzz.

I love that guys are thinking about draft classes, building a winner, Championship windows, etc...

14 minutes ago, aqualizard said:

Coach seems very open to ideas that benefit the league as a whole.


:big_smile:

For sure, and appreciate this thread.

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Please Read Carefully!

Season 4 is the ALL IN Season!
We will have been through all 24 NHL 94 Teams.
After Season 4 ALL rosters will reset.
No one will have the rights to any players.

The Draft Pool will consist of:
NHL 94 Smythe Division Teams (CGY, EDM, LA, SJ, VAN, WPG)
Teams from my 1966 Rom

All returning B coaches may keep 2 players from any of their previous seasons.
Chef, Flat, Jer, Aqua, and Coach
YES, Aqua can bring Mario back or Jer can reclaim Mogs.

All returning A coaches (except for those who have won a Bailey Bobble) may keep 1 player from any of their previous seasons.
Currently KingRaph would be the only one without a returning player.
Lupz, Tex, Ice, Brutus

Atomic will be an Expansion Team without any keepers.
Expansion is tough in the PRL.
But we will help him a little in the draft. (see below)

The Draft will have a twist to it.
In Round 1 only the order will be determined by LOTTERY!
From Round 2 on we will follow an order based on results from Season 1,2, and 3.
Atomic will get the first pick in round 2-9.

The PRL has been in negotiations with 1966 Bobby Hull.
He is one of the greatest pixelated hockey players of all time.
7 WT. 5/5 Shot, 5/5 Skate, 6 Stick and Awareness.
In order keep Bobby from jumping directly to the VHL, the PRL has made some concessions.
Bobby has made it clear he does not want to play for some yahoo "B" Coach or an "A" Coach who could only win 1 game last season.
He would really like to be in Chicago where he has some great memories and more importantly he could party with Brutus.
He would also be happy to play for talented coaches in New York and Detroit.
Montreal would be OK, if they kept his son Brett, though they don't get along that well and Bobby doesn't speak French.

Obviously, the PRL wants all teams to have the opportunity to land Bobby.

The agreement that the PRL has come to with Bobby is this:
1. There will be a Drunk Brutus Draft Lottery Video. (Pending Brutus Approval).
2. All 11 teams will be eligible for the first pick.
3. Teams will get 0-4 Balls in the basket.  Each Ball cost $5.
4. All proceeds raised by the Draft will go to @chaos for the awesome work he does setting up the stats for us.

 

 

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Ok, I don't 100% understand it all yet, so a re-read is in order, but!

1. I like how you keep mixing things up! (This league will never go stale!), and
2. I like that I get 2 keepers!!! Woohoo! 

Also, more than happy to throw $20 towards Chaos, in whatever fashion that works?

One question regarding the randomly determined first round.  That round is random for everyone, including Atomic, right?
Edit: On re-read I see the answer clearly indicated above: "2. All 11 teams will be eligible for the first pick."

 

Edited by aqualizard

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44 minutes ago, aqualizard said:

Ok, I don't 100% understand it all yet, so a re-read is in order, but!

1. I like how you keep mixing things up! (This league will never go stale!), and
2. I like that I get 2 keepers!!! Woohoo! 

Also, more than happy to throw $20 towards Chaos, in whatever fashion that works?

One question regarding the randomly determined first round.  That round is random for everyone, including Atomic, right?

 

The first round is Draft Lottery.

All teams are eligible, but it cost $$.

The more balls you have in the basket the better the chance you get the #1 pick.

$0 = 0 Balls (no chance to be #1, probably last or near the bottom with other tight wad teams)
$5 = 1 Ball
$10 = 2 balls
$15 = 3 balls
$20 = 4 balls

If everyone gave $20 we would all have an equal chance at the first pick.

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8 hours ago, CoachMac said:

The more balls you have in the basket the better the chance you get the #1 pick.

$0 = 0 Balls (no chance to be #1, probably last or near the bottom with other tight wad teams)

Love it!  

I certainly do not have a problem pitching in for Chaos.  How will it be done? We all live so far apart?

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23 hours ago, CoachMac said:

 

The agreement that the PRL has come to with Bobby is this:
1. There will be a Drunk Brutus Draft Lottery Video. (Pending Brutus Approval).
2. All 11 teams will be eligible for the first pick.
3. Teams will get 0-4 Balls in the basket.  Each Ball cost $5.
4. All proceeds raised by the Draft will go to @chaos for the awesome work he does setting up the stats for us.

 

 

 

Hahahaha, I appreciate it bud, but I don't mind doing this for free. Your seasons are fairly easy to set up.

 

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Singing telegram at work it is! (and I don't think Coach is hoping to thank you for just his leagues)

Edited by jer_33
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:amazing:

Edited by CoachMac

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We have currently raised $120 for @chaos and his incredible work on behalf of the PRL.
So, we have 6 coaches currently in the draft lottery for Season 4.

CoachMac
KingRaph
Jer33
Aqualizard
Corbettkb
Lupz27

Coaches not in the Lottery:

JackandJose
Chefstar88
Brutus
Flatcrusher
AtomicRaven

Draft Order for Rounds 2-9
Atomic 0-0-0   0/0 = 0
J&J 0-0-0         0/0 = 0
Chef 3-32-3     9/2 = 4.5
Coach 15-39-6  36/3 = 12
Aqua 19-26-13  51/3 = 17
Flat 17-20-1       35/2 = 17.5
Jer 25-27-6        56/3 = 19
Lupz 10-23-7     27/2 = 13.5
Tex 33-19-6       72/3 = 24
Brutus 22-12-4  48/2 = 24
KingRaph 43-3-10 96/3 = 32

 

Edited by CoachMac
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Brutus is talking about a Draft Video for season 4 that I asked him to do, So I thought I would get this posted.

See post above for season 4 info. 

Welcome Atomic Raven and Jack and Jose

I am not going to start the Draft until Mid-december when the Playoffs have wrapped up.

I also intend to take break during the Holidays and start Season 4 Mid-January.

Give @chaos plenty of time to get us set up

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I'll be sending my $20 as soon as I log into my paypal account.  Appreciate all of Chaos work big time!

I'll try to do something fun for tseason 4.  Always seems to get guys in the mood for a draft for sure.

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