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NHLPA 93: A hockey Fighters analysis

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The fighting score on a player in NHLPA 93 ranks as follows:

0: non-fighter

14: very rare fighter

28: rare fighter

42: scrapper

71: tough guy

85: heavyweight

100: super heavyweight

The aggressiveness score a player has is his ability to get into fights and take penalties. Fighting score is also the players willingness to fight and also how good he is in one. A 100 scored fighter can on average take about 3 punches more than an 85 scored fighter whn both are at full energy. I will list all the "tough guys" (unless otherwise noted) on a team including his overall ability (OA), aggressiveness (AG), and fighting ability (FA). On the notes section, I will list the mistakes NHLPA 93 made and what the stats should be. This is as accurate as you can get!!

BOSTON BRUINS

Enforcer: Lydon Byers: OA: 15 AG: 93 FA: 85

others:

Cam Neely: OA: 82 AG: 73 FA: 71

Glenn Wesley: OA: 71 AG: 33 FA: 71

Gordon Murphy: OA: 64 AG: 53 FA: 71

Jim Wiemer: OA: 37 AG: 73 FA: 71

Stephan Leach: OA: 64 AG: 73 FA: 71

Bob Sweeny: OA: 53 AG: 73 FA: 71

Notes:

Glenn Wesley should have a "0" fighting score because he never fights. Bob Sweeny should have had a "42" score because of the beatings he usually took.

BUFFALO SABERS

Enforcer: Rob Ray: OA: 33 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

Brad May: OA: 31 AG: 100 FA: 85

Gord Donnelly: OA: 18 AG: 100 FA: 85

Grant Ledyard: OA: 53 AG: 46 FA: 71

Randy Hillier: OA: 13 AG: 86 FA: 71

Notes:

A good solid team that looks perfect.

CALGARY FLAMES

Enforcer: Craig Berube: OA: 31 AG: 86 FA: 85

others:

Gary Roberts: OA: 78 AG: 86 FA: 71

Joel Otto: OA: 51 AG: 86 FA: 71

Neil Sheehy: OA: 17 AG: 86 FA: 71

Alexabder Godynyuk: OA: 28 AG: 86 FA: 71

Frank Musil: OA: 46 AG: 66 FA: 71

Michel Petit: OA: 48 AG: 86 FA: 71

Ronnie Stern: OA: 42 AG: 100 FA: 71

Notes:

A great solid team that looks about right and is without a doubt one of the best to play.

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS

Enforcer: Stu "The Grim Reaper" Grimson: OA: 24 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

Steve Smith: OA:77 AG: 100 FA: 71

Dirk Graham: OA: 68 AG: 66 FA: 71

Bryan Marchment: OA: 45 AG: 86 FA: 71

Keith Brown: OA: 68 AG: 66 FA: 71

Rod Buskas: OA: 26 AG: 86 FA: 71

Rob Brown: OA: 71 AG: 66 FA: 71

Greg Gilbert: OA: 51 AG:46 FA: 71

Notes:

Another solid team that looks perfect and is fun to play.

DETROIT RED WINGS

Enforcer: Bob Probert (NHL Heavyweight Champion): OA: 77 AG: 100 FA: 100

others:

Gerard Gallant: OA: 66 AG: 86 FA: 71

Steve Chassion: OA: 71 AG: 86 FA: 71

Vladimir Konstaintinov: OA: 70 AG: 86 FA: 71

Alan Kerr: OA: 48 AG: 86 FA: 71

Notes:

Enough cannot be said about the greatest hockey fighter of all time, Bob Probert. Without a doubt one of the most fun players to use in the entire game! He is the only player to boast a perfect 100 score in fighting, checking, aggressiveness, and shot accuracy!!! A sniper with the stick and a sledge hammer with the fist!! Ron Barr says it best, "Bob Probert is always around if the other team decides to get rough."

EDMONTON OILERS

Enforcer: Dave Manson: OA: 64 AG: 86 FA: 85

others:

Kelly Buchberger: OA: 48 AG: 86 FA: 85

Scott Mellanby: OA: 51 AG: 86 FA: 71

Notes:

In no way should Kelly Buchberger have a "85" fight rank!! It should only be a "71!!"

HARTFORD WHALERS

Enforcer: Ed Kastellic: OA: 19 AG: 73 FA: 85

others:

Paul Gillies: OA: 27 AG: 93 FA: 71

Jim McKenzie: OA: 31 AG: 53 FA: 28

Notes:

Jim McKenzie is a tough rugged fighter and only got a "28" fight score??? It should be an "85."

LONG ISLAND

Enforcer: Mick Vukota: OA: 20 AG: 93 FA: 85

others:

Richard Pilon: OA: 46 AG: 73 FA: 71

Notes:

Weak team, but looks about right.

LOS ANGELES KINGS

Enforcer: Marty McSorley: OA: 48 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

Jay Miller: OA: 40 AG: 86 FA: 85

Notes:

It's a travisty that Marty McSorley didn't get a perfect "100" fight score because he was one of the top 4 super heavyweights in the league at this time! Big mistake for NHLPA 93!!

MINNESOTA NORTHSTARS

Enforcer: Shane "Chainsaw" Churla: OA: 22 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

Mark Tinordi: OA: 44 AG: 86 FA: 28

Notes:

It's a shame that Mark Tinordi got only a "28" fight score when it should be a solid "71."

MONTREAL CANADIANS

Enforcer: Chris "Knuckles" Nilian: OA: 37 AG: 93 FA: 85

others:

Lyle Odelein: OA: 51 AG: 73 FA: 71

Todd Ewen: OA: 28 AG: 73 FA: 71

Shane Corson: OA: 83 AG: 73 FA: 42

Notes:

Todd Ewen was a legitimate "heavyweight" he should be a solid "85" score in fighting. And Shane Corson was also a deadly "tough guy" and should have a "71" fight score and not the weak "42" this game gave him.

NEW JERSEY DEVILS

Enforcer: Randy McKay: OA: 44 AG: 73 FA: 85

others:

Ken Daneyko: OA: 42 AG: 73 FA: 71

Notes:

I sometimes think Randy McKay should have a "71" fight score. But to his credit he did fight alot at this time so I can let it pass. Some people think Scott Stevens should've had a "71" fight score instead of the "42" he got in this game. I think it's pretty accurate because Steven was tough but he historically sucked at the scrap.

NEW YORK RANGERS

Enforcer: Tie Domi: OA: 20 AG: 100 FA: 100

others:

Joey Kocur: OA: 44 AG: 80 FA: 85

Kris King: OA: 66 AG: 80 FA: 71

Jeff Beukeboom: OA: 51 AG: 80 FA: 71

Notes:

A great tough and fun team to play, Domi loves to go. A classic when he is paired against Bob Probert! Jay Wells has a "28" fight score when it should've been a "42" score.

OTTAWA SENATORS

Enforcer: Mike Peluso: OA: 37 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

Brad Miller: OA: 26 AG: 100 FA: 85

Jim Tomson: OA: 26 AG: 86 FA: 71

Notes:

Jeff Lazaro should NO WAY have a "42" fighting!!!! This is one of the worst mistakes in the game!! It should be a solid "0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" What were the makers of this game thinking?????????????

PHILADELPHIA FLYERS

Enforcer: Dave Brown: OA: 13 AG: 60 FA: 85

others:

Terry Carkner: OA: 37 AG: 80 FA: 71

Notes:

How can Dave Brown NOT have a "100" fighting score??? He is probally the second best fighter of ALLTIME next to Bob Probert. This is simply a bad, bad, bad mistake the makers of this game made.

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS

Enforcer: Jay Caufield: OA: 17 AG: 80 FA: 85

others:

Rick Tocchet: OA: 66 AG: 80 FA: 71

Ulf Sammuelson: OA: 60 AG: 80 FA: 71

Troy Loney: OA: 44 AG: 80 FA: 71

Phil Bourque: OA: 51 AG: 60 FA: 71

Notes:

Ulf Sammuelson should have a fighting score of "42" and not a "71."

QUEBEC NORDIQUES

Enforcer: Tony "TnT" Twist: OA: 5 AG: 80 FA: 85

others:

Steven Finn: OA: 33 AG: 80 FA: 71

Notes:

Tony Twist is a defensemen in this game when he should be a winger.

SAN JOSE SHARKS

Enforcer: Link "The Missing Link" Gaetz: OA: 36 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

Jeff Odgers: OA: 28 AG: 80 FA: 71

Notes:

This team looks right.

ST. LOUIS BLUES

Enforcer: Darrin Kimble: OA: 15 AG: 80 FA: 71

others:

Kelly Chase: OA: 13 AG: 100 FA: 42

Bob Bassen: OA: 55 AG: 80 FA: 71

Brendan Shanahan: OA: 71 AG: 80 FA: 71

Garth Butcher: OA: 53 AG: 80 FA: 71

Stephan Quintal: OA: 35 AG: 60 FA: 42

Notes:

A team full of "tough guys!" And your eyes don't decieve you, Kelly Chase is the only guy in the game that has an aggressiveness score of "100" and a fighting score of "42." He is fun to play, get into a fight and watch him get beaten up. But in reality Chase was a pretty good fighter and should've had a "71" fight score. Stephan Quintal was also looked over in this game because he should've had a "71" fight score instead of his low "42" score he got.

TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING

Enforcer: Basil McRae: OA: 24 AG: 100 FA: 100

others:

Tim Hunter: OA: 20 AG: 100 FA: 85

Mike Hartman: OA: 35 AG: 80 FA: 85

Bob McGill: OA: 33 AG: 66 FA: 14

Notes:

Another one of the more fun teams to play if you like fights and contact!! This team has a bunch of "heavyweights" and they like to score low and fight hard! But this team is not without it's many mistakes too. Basil McRae should NOT have a "100" fight score. He is no where in the Bob Probert, Dave Brown, and Marty McSorley class. To Basil's credit he fought alot and had a ton of penalty minutes but he is a solid "85" fight score. Mike Hartman is also wrong! He fought "heavyweights" around the league and usually came up short. He is a "tough guy" and should only have a "71" fighting score and not the "85" this game gave him. And lastly, Bob McGill was given a "14" fight score when it should've been a "71." Sometimes I don't know what the makers of this game are thinking??

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

Enforcer: Ken "The Bomber" Baumgartner: OA: 2 AG: 93 FA: 85

others:

Wendal Clark: OA: 62 AG: 73 FA: 42

Notes:

Ken Baumgartner ranks as the worst player in the game with his 2 overall score, but who cares, he beats people up! And another horrid mistake comes on this team...Wendal Clark only gets a "42" fight score when it should've been a solid "71!!!!"

VANCOUVER CANUKS

Enforcer: Gino Odjick: OA: 31 AG: 100 FA: 100

others:

Gerald Diduck: OA: 63 AG: 86 FA: 71

Jim Sandlak: OA: 57 AG: 86 FA: 71

Notes:

Gino Odjick was a great fighter and amassed a ton of penalties but he is not the top four in the game. Gino should have an "85" fight score than the perfect "100" this game gave him.

WASHINGTON CAPITALS

Enforcer: Alan May: OA: 42 AG: 73 FA: 71

others:

Nick Kypreos: OA: 40 AG: 73 FA: 71

Al Iafrate: OA: 77 AG: 73 FA: 71

Dale Hunter: OA: 70 AG: 73 FA: 71

Notes:

One of the weaker teams when it comes to scraps. Dale Hunter should have a fighting score of "42" instead of his "71" score. And Kevin Hatcher should have a "42" fighting score instead of the "28" score the makers of this game gave him.

WINNIPEG JETS

Enforcer: Shawn Cronin "The Barbarian": OA: 11 AG: 100 FA: 85

others:

None.

Notes:

Other than Cronin, this team lacks punch!

So there you have it folks a complete analysis of this super game. Despite some of the flaws in stats and glitches in this game it ranks as the best hockey game EVER created!! The replay factor tells all because fans are still playing and raving about it.

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Nice work and I agree with your comments. I'm making an updated 93 ROM with current rosters but it sucks because players just don't fight as often as they used to and that has to be reflected in their ratings. Even worse, that means that when you play my ROM, fights rarely happen. I'd love to use your input on the fighters on todays teams to make them as accurate as possible.

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byatch, I'd be willing to help. Drop me an email at apbaahl@hotmail.com

Hulk, I see I'm not the only guy around here who was obsessed with getting the fighter ratings accurate. :) I made even more changes than you did to my rom, however. I'm surprised you didn't lower guys who sucked like Gord Murphy, Grant Ledyard, Alex Godynyuk to name a few, but then lowered a guy like Dale Hunter who fought all the time (though as you noted, usually lost.)

Would you or any others be interested in the rom I did if I made it available for download?

One special note about it, I created some fighters who were left out of 93 (actually someone from here helped me create them). I also edited each team's lineup so that the 2nd line was the 'fighting line'.

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I would love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please do what you can and contact me to let me know!!!!

As for the guys you mentioned, yes they sucked! But some I felt would still fight despite how bad they were. Who did you include as the other fighters that were left out???

For me, the biggest mistakes were not giving Brown and McSorley 100 fight scores and giving them to McRae and Odjick!!! If your ROM clears this up, I WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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byatch, I'd be willing to help. Drop me an email at apbaahl@hotmail.com

Hulk, I see I'm not the only guy around here who was obsessed with getting the fighter ratings accurate. ;) I made even more changes than you did to my rom, however. I'm surprised you didn't lower guys who sucked like Gord Murphy, Grant Ledyard, Alex Godynyuk to name a few, but then lowered a guy like Dale Hunter who fought all the time (though as you noted, usually lost.)

Would you or any others be interested in the rom I did if I made it available for download?

One special note about it, I created some fighters who were left out of 93 (actually someone from here helped me create them). I also edited each team's lineup so that the 2nd line was the 'fighting line'.

Sweet. Could you post a team analysis like you did with 93 but with the current year and see what discussion it generates?

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I'll upload my rom later tonight. I didn't make McSorely and Brown 100's, but I don't disagree with you on either of those calls, both guys were borderline. I did give 100's to Probert, Domi, Kocur, Twist, Crowder. I can't tell you exactly who was created extra, but I'll throw out a few names: John Kordic, Kruse, Simard, Kyte, Crowder, Vial, DeBrusk, Leroux, Ciccone, Janssens, Roberge, McLelland, Antoski, Poeschek. There might have been a few more. Also Dan Kordic, Jim McKenzie, and others got the higher fight ratings that they deserved.

Byatch, I can tell you who I think from today should be 100, 85, and 71. Below that, it really doesn't matter as they pretty much won't fight.

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alrighty, here you go:

http://www.geocities.com/bradutterstrom/1stline.bin

I switched Brown and McSorely to 100's per request. Each team has their best fighter on the first line. But of course you can use NOSE or GENEAHE to fix the lines (and ratings) the way you want them.

Also, you fight fans might appreciate this...it's a hockey fight simulator (text based game):

http://www.hockey-fights.com/files/fightsim.exe

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I'll upload my rom later tonight. I didn't make McSorely and Brown 100's, but I don't disagree with you on either of those calls, both guys were borderline. I did give 100's to Probert, Domi, Kocur, Twist, Crowder. I can't tell you exactly who was created extra, but I'll throw out a few names: John Kordic, Kruse, Simard, Kyte, Crowder, Vial, DeBrusk, Leroux, Ciccone, Janssens, Roberge, McLelland, Antoski, Poeschek. There might have been a few more. Also Dan Kordic, Jim McKenzie, and others got the higher fight ratings that they deserved.

Byatch, I can tell you who I think from today should be 100, 85, and 71. Below that, it really doesn't matter as they pretty much won't fight.

That would be awesome and I'll use your ratings in my ROM if I agree with them. I'm sure I will since I agree with your previous ratings. Thanks

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ok here goes:

Ana:

Parros 85

Obrien, Thornton, O'Donnell, Moen 71

Atl:

Boulton 85

Devries, Exelby, Coburn, Hnidy, Mellanby, Sutton 71

Bos:

Brookbank 85

Alberts 71

Buf:

Peters 85

Mair, Gaustad 71

Cal:

Godard 85

McCarty, Prust, B.Ference, Ro.Regehr, Phaneuf 71

Car:

C.Adams, Commodore 71

Chi:

Low, Vandermeer 85

Lapointe, Wisneiwski, Richmond 71

Colorado:

Laperriere, McCormick, Love, May 71

Columbus:

Shelley 85

Tollefson, Verot, Goertzen 71

Dal:

Barnaby, Ott, Morrow, Lindros 71

Det:

Norton, Bootland 71

Edm:

Winchester, Greene, Torres, J.Smith 71

Fla:

Montador, Gratton, Roberts, Allen 71

Lak:

Ivanans 85

Cowan, Avery, Kostopoulos 71

Min:

Boogaard 100

Mon:

Downey, Murray, Souray 71

Nas:

Hordichuk 85

Tootoo, Weber, Nichol, Hartnell, Yonkman, Henry 71

Njd:

Janssen 85

Rupp, Lacouture, White, Perrott, Marshall 71

Nyi:

Simon 85

Asham, Witt 71

Nyr:

Orr 85

Hollweg 71

Ott:

McGratton, Neil 85

Bois 71

Phi:

Fedoruk 85

Eager, Richards, Hatcher, Grant, Kane 71

Pho:

Laraque 100

Gratton, Nolan, Morris, Boynton, Scatchard 71

Pit:

Cairns 85

Thorburn, Carkner 71

San:

Parker 85

Clowe, Bell, Davison, M.Smith 71

Stl:

Walker 85

Mayers, Jackman, King, Tkachuk, Guerin, Hinote 71

Tam:

Tarnasky, Craig, Pratt, Roy 71

Tor:

Belak 85

Tucker, Ondrus, B.Brown 71

Van:

McIver, Bieksa, Rypien, Bouck, Cooke 71

Was:

Brashear 100

Erskine 85

Clark, Bradley, Sutherby 71

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man, there really needs to be 1 more rating in there. I know I can go down to 57, 42, 28, 14 but once you get below 71 the guys simply won't fight. Every fight I've EVER had or seen in NHLPA at least one of the guys is a 71, so for all intents and purpuses, anything below 71 is irrelevant.

Some of the guys are borderline. Here's a few I almost gave an 85: McCarty, May, Downey, Roy, Barnaby, Perrott, J.Gratton.

And a couple others I listed as 71 but they fight so seldom that even if they're decent fighters, I'm not sure they deserved a 71. Guys like Lindros, Sutton, White, Devries, etc.

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I agree with all that completely, except for what do you give Chara? He can rumble with the best but he really doesnt fight a ton but he needs to be mentioned. I think that I'll keep the questionable 71's at 71 because there really arent many fights with the way I have the game now and with league toughness way down since 93, it needs all the fighters it can get.

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I'd give Chara a 71. 85 and he starts fighting way too much. I'm sure I missed some other guys, I was going by a list of fighting majors so anyone who hasn't fought yet this year (I bet Chara hasn't) I would have overlooked...

I agree with all that completely, except for what do you give Chara? He can rumble with the best but he really doesnt fight a ton but he needs to be mentioned. I think that I'll keep the questionable 71's at 71 because there really arent many fights with the way I have the game now and with league toughness way down since 93, it needs all the fighters it can get.

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I like the rankings though I wouldn't give Twist a 100 because he wasn't that good at this time. He got beaten a lot and didn't get great until he started doing steroids a few years later. As for the new fighter scores, those look great. It's funny how today's heavyweights don't even come close to the late 80's and early 90's heavyweights. Laraque, Boogaard, Brasher, and a host of others would get killed Probert, Brown, McSorley, Kocur, Domi, Geatz, etc. in their primes. I would put these guys down as the the greatest enforcers ever in hockey history. Man, was I glad to be a fan of hockey at this time!! I could care less about the sport today.

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I agree that Twist hadn't hit his prime yet. I just didn't really care to be honest, I always liked Twist so I guess I cheated for him :)

I actually disagree with your assessment of today's fighters vs the 80's/90's guys. I understand what you're saying, nobody today DOMINATES the way Probie did, or fights with the same fire as those guys. But I bet you if Brashear, Laraque, Boogaard went head to head with those guys they'd dominate them. Today's fighters are a lot bigger, stronger, and a lot more technically refined. Guys like Brashear and Laraque are masters at tying up their opponents and making sure they don't get hit clean. Boogaard isn't that great, but he's just downright scary with how big he is and how hard he hits. If you look at his record from last year and this year, he knocks guys down in like 1/3 of his fights. It's pretty crazy. So while I agree that today's heavyweights aren't as exciting as those of yesteryear, I really think they'd dominate them head to head.

I like the rankings though I wouldn't give Twist a 100 because he wasn't that good at this time. He got beaten a lot and didn't get great until he started doing steroids a few years later. As for the new fighter scores, those look great. It's funny how today's heavyweights don't even come close to the late 80's and early 90's heavyweights. Laraque, Boogaard, Brasher, and a host of others would get killed Probert, Brown, McSorley, Kocur, Domi, Geatz, etc. in their primes. I would put these guys down as the the greatest enforcers ever in hockey history. Man, was I glad to be a fan of hockey at this time!! I could care less about the sport today.

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I usually like what you have to say bradu, but this post is totally wrong. Today's enforcers are no where near that level. Probert's dominance over the NHL can never be matched, he was THAT good. For me, the difference today is that there is not many top level fighters. The talent pool is very, very low so the upper level fighters tend to shine more. Is Brasher really considered a "great" fighter or fantastic hugger??? I have seen EVERY one of his fightes and though he is strong, he his an insult to fighters everywhere. Brasher vs Pete Worell are some of the worst ever!! I'll hug you and you hug me and we'll punch each other in the back of the head. Watch every fight and you'll see this. There is a reason Brasher get's no respect. Boogaard?? Please, your judging his fights on today's losers. Who has he KO'ed that has any self worth? Kip Brennan? Gillies? Derek?? Vandemer?? Simply put, these guys are just low rank contenders. Boogaard has lost decisively every time against Laraque and even to Brasher? He's big and has some skill but If you think he could last with a "prime" McSorley your wrong. He needs to improve on his balance. And your telling me that Brown's left wouldn't mess him up?? And as for Laraque? I'll bet if you even asked him he would tell you that Probert was his mentor. They've fought twice during Probie's "fall from grace" day's and they were both draws (slight edge to Laraque in one of those fights). Do you really think this would've happened if it was the other way around?? Laraque is the best today and that cannot be disputed but you CANNOT tell me he even put's half the fear in people like Probie and Kocur did (especially Probert). Probert was an animal during his prime. Even past champs like Twist, Grimson, Kocur, Fotiu, Clark Gillies and Brown never had that type of presence and fear AND for sooooo long. Laraque is more of a smart fighter (like you say and I agree) but he lacks the animal instict and pure viciousness other's of the past lacked (think Geatz, O'Riley, Nilian, Miller, Berube). This is also because hockey is much different sport today than it was. And that's too bad.

I'm sure you know your stuff very well. Please look into the facts and you can see the answers as plain as day.

P.S.

In all my years as a hockey fighter historian (15 years) you are the only person who has ever said that today's fighters are better. And you even said that they would....gulp...dominate. :)

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It's ok, we can agree to disagree, I have no problem with that. I agree that Brashear has, at times, been an insult to fighters. I'm not a fan of the guy by any means. But I also don't let that get in the way of assessing him...the guy dominated for years and is still doing it today. He does hug too much, but when he does let loose, he is good. And his hugging, while boring, keeps him from getting hit.

What you're forgetting about Boogaard is that he did all of that in ONE season! Brennan, Vandermeer, Fedoruk...not all time greats, but tough guys. Who did Kocur KO? Jim Kyte was damn good, but most of the other guys he really crushed weren't top competition either.

Laraque doesn't put fear into people the way that a Probert, Kocur, or Twist did. BUT, he would still beat those guys more often than not in a head to head fight.

I agree with you that I liked the past guys better, that they fought with more ferocity and instinct, that they were more exciting. But I think if today's best fighters went head to head against the fighters from the past, the new guys would win.

Anyway, it's been a fun little debate...if you enjoy this stuff, I'd really love to get your input on fighters from every era for the hockey fight simulator!-Bradu

I usually like what you have to say bradu, but this post is totally wrong. Today's enforcers are no where near that level. Probert's dominance over the NHL can never be matched, he was THAT good. For me, the difference today is that there is not many top level fighters. The talent pool is very, very low so the upper level fighters tend to shine more. Is Brasher really considered a "great" fighter or fantastic hugger??? I have seen EVERY one of his fightes and though he is strong, he his an insult to fighters everywhere. Brasher vs Pete Worell are some of the worst ever!! I'll hug you and you hug me and we'll punch each other in the back of the head. Watch every fight and you'll see this. There is a reason Brasher get's no respect. Boogaard?? Please, your judging his fights on today's losers. Who has he KO'ed that has any self worth? Kip Brennan? Gillies? Derek?? Vandemer?? Simply put, these guys are just low rank contenders. Boogaard has lost decisively every time against Laraque and even to Brasher? He's big and has some skill but If you think he could last with a "prime" McSorley your wrong. He needs to improve on his balance. And your telling me that Brown's left wouldn't mess him up?? And as for Laraque? I'll bet if you even asked him he would tell you that Probert was his mentor. They've fought twice during Probie's "fall from grace" day's and they were both draws (slight edge to Laraque in one of those fights). Do you really think this would've happened if it was the other way around?? Laraque is the best today and that cannot be disputed but you CANNOT tell me he even put's half the fear in people like Probie and Kocur did (especially Probert). Probert was an animal during his prime. Even past champs like Twist, Grimson, Kocur, Fotiu, Clark Gillies and Brown never had that type of presence and fear AND for sooooo long. Laraque is more of a smart fighter (like you say and I agree) but he lacks the animal instict and pure viciousness other's of the past lacked (think Geatz, O'Riley, Nilian, Miller, Berube). This is also because hockey is much different sport today than it was. And that's too bad.

I'm sure you know your stuff very well. Please look into the facts and you can see the answers as plain as day.

P.S.

In all my years as a hockey fighter historian (15 years) you are the only person who has ever said that today's fighters are better. And you even said that they would....gulp...dominate. :P

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I have to say that I can see where both of you guys are coming from. The game has change and so has the role of fighters. The class of 93 is far more plentiful, exciting and competitive while today, a lot of teams dont even have a heavy weight. However, the players today are bigger and stronger but their role and usefulness in todays game is usually limited. Even though he fights with the passion of a gold fish, Laraque could match up with Probert.

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You have to remember that Boogaard is about 5 feet taller and 50 pounds heavier than Kocur was and his reach must be a good 8 inches longer. Now that's leverage!! Kocur wasn't that big by any means but I'll bet you his punch was alot harder than Boogaards EVER was. Maybe some of Kocur's KO's weren't as plentiful as Boogaard's (who had the reach/size over opponents) but look at his opponents after the scrap. The majority of them were bleeding and messed up. Boogaard has never caused damage Kocur did. And Kocur did it with a smaller body. Simply put, Boogaard's skill doesn't match his sheer size. Plus Dave Brown with his long lanky arms and body, skill and balance would also wreck Boogaard. He's not as strong as Boogaard by any means but his long body and pure skill would be too much for the "Boogie Man."

Laraque could never beat a PRIME Probert, it just wouldn't happen. There two fights prove this. An aged Probie gave Laraque all he could handle in those scraps and Probie never even came close to losing (even though I would give a slight edge to Laraque in one fight). Watch the fights and you'll see that probie threw the majority of the punches in both fights and was much more aggressive. Maybe Laraque was a little nervous and thats understandable considering Probie's reputation but still. So if a 45% percent Probert could do this to Laraque how would a 100% PRIMED Probert do??? It's all in the facts...Probert is the GOD of Hockey fighters because he was really that good. Laraque has promise to be a top ten fighter ever but he will never crack the top 5.

Bob Probert = The best there is, the best there was, the best there EVER will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's ok, we can agree to disagree, I have no problem with that. I agree that Brashear has, at times, been an insult to fighters. I'm not a fan of the guy by any means. But I also don't let that get in the way of assessing him...the guy dominated for years and is still doing it today. He does hug too much, but when he does let loose, he is good. And his hugging, while boring, keeps him from getting hit.

What you're forgetting about Boogaard is that he did all of that in ONE season! Brennan, Vandermeer, Fedoruk...not all time greats, but tough guys. Who did Kocur KO? Jim Kyte was damn good, but most of the other guys he really crushed weren't top competition either.

Laraque doesn't put fear into people the way that a Probert, Kocur, or Twist did. BUT, he would still beat those guys more often than not in a head to head fight.

I agree with you that I liked the past guys better, that they fought with more ferocity and instinct, that they were more exciting. But I think if today's best fighters went head to head against the fighters from the past, the new guys would win.

Anyway, it's been a fun little debate...if you enjoy this stuff, I'd really love to get your input on fighters from every era for the hockey fight simulator!-Bradu

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This was a really helpful article, and yes bob probert is the best fighter in this game.

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interesting stuff, but I'm pretty sure I don't trust the work of somebody who seemingly managed to spell the majority of Bruins players' names wrong (we're not talking about Europeans and Russians, here) and makes approximately one grammar/spelling mistake per phrase. the dude is clearly passionate about the brawling, but I do agree that today's players have a dominating size advantage. Probert was great and he'd still wreck kids, but he would never even reach Chara; if you can't connect, you won't win many fights. how about (fight-) winning percentages? Lucic has one or two losses in his NHL career. he'd be a good match for Probert, but I'd want him to be ANGRY before the gloves slipped away.

Edited by trudatman

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You have to remember that Boogaard is about 5 feet taller and 50 pounds heavier than Kocur was and his reach must be a good 8 inches longer. Now that's leverage!! Kocur wasn't that big by any means but I'll bet you his punch was alot harder than Boogaards EVER was. Maybe some of Kocur's KO's weren't as plentiful as Boogaard's (who had the reach/size over opponents) but look at his opponents after the scrap. The majority of them were bleeding and messed up. Boogaard has never caused damage Kocur did. And Kocur did it with a smaller body. Simply put, Boogaard's skill doesn't match his sheer size. Plus Dave Brown with his long lanky arms and body, skill and balance would also wreck Boogaard. He's not as strong as Boogaard by any means but his long body and pure skill would be too much for the "Boogie Man."

Laraque could never beat a PRIME Probert, it just wouldn't happen. There two fights prove this. An aged Probie gave Laraque all he could handle in those scraps and Probie never even came close to losing (even though I would give a slight edge to Laraque in one fight). Watch the fights and you'll see that probie threw the majority of the punches in both fights and was much more aggressive. Maybe Laraque was a little nervous and thats understandable considering Probie's reputation but still. So if a 45% percent Probert could do this to Laraque how would a 100% PRIMED Probert do??? It's all in the facts...Probert is the GOD of Hockey fighters because he was really that good. Laraque has promise to be a top ten fighter ever but he will never crack the top 5.

Bob Probert = The best there is, the best there was, the best there EVER will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRUE THAT! i totally agree! :)

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alrighty, here you go:

http://www.geocities.com/bradutterstrom/1stline.bin

I switched Brown and McSorely to 100's per request. Each team has their best fighter on the first line. But of course you can use NOSE or GENEAHE to fix the lines (and ratings) the way you want them.

Also, you fight fans might appreciate this...it's a hockey fight simulator (text based game):

http://www.hockey-fights.com/files/fightsim.exe

Can i download this anymore?

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"dave brown even jumped your mother"...

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I love the Original post and use this info often, BUT

Glen Wesley did fight certainly not much and 71 is wrong, but he did have a few scraps. Same with Jeff Lazaro not a 42 but also not 0.

Adam Burt for Hartford should be a solid 71.

Adam Graves for the Rangers also should have a 71.

Dale Hunter and Ulf deserve their 71.

Dirk and Murzyn for Vancouver should be 71.

Scott Stevens should be a 71.

Dave Lowry and Owen Nolan should be 71.

Claude Boivin should be a 71.

Messier should be more than a 14 maybe 28. and Paul Coffey was not a 0. He had 4 scraps in 91.

Joe Cirella should be a 71 and so should Sylvain Lefebve.

Derian Hatcher should be a 71.

Greg Gilbert and Grant Ledyard should be 42.

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