Uncle Seth Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I respect the opinion, I do not respect the ultimatum. Like I stated that I'm fine with any way it goes, but this is a thing that should be open up for discussion. I also drafted like ~#22 last season. I'm looking to be around 10-15 this year with not much DNP:s and many newcomers coming in most likely and would get that proper 5 speeder I'm looking for. What I'm bringing up is making my position worse after paying my dues too. Evening out the playing field with a new draft system sure I'd be willing to sacrifice and even pick last every season, but only if there is a change. If not I'll keep my earnings from last season for my draft position (it's a very good argument that you earn it). Current system is not bad, it's quite ok. I just think people need to be open for ideas and discussions and that's the only way for improvement. If talks don't go anywhere from there and there is no real improvement in peoples mind with any changes, then there is no need for a change. I respect the opinion, I do not respect the ultimatum. Like I stated that I'm fine with any way it goes, but this is a thing that should be open up for discussion. I also drafted like ~#22 last season. I'm looking to be around 10-15 this year with not much DNP:s and many newcomers coming in most likely and would get that proper 5 speeder I'm looking for. What I'm bringing up is making my position worse after paying my dues too. Evening out the playing field with a new draft system sure I'd be willing to sacrifice and even pick last every season, but only if there is a change. If not I'll keep my earnings from last season for my draft position (it's a very good argument that you earn it). Current system is not bad, it's quite ok. I just think people need to be open for ideas and discussions and that's the only way for improvement. If talks don't go anywhere from there and there is no real improvement in peoples mind with any changes, then there is no need for a change. I'm not trying to use it as an ultimatum to affect any decision. It's just my position and I'm being open about it. Surely GDL will go on without a hitch if I don't play just as countless others have stopped playing in various leagues over the years. Actually snake or no snake is not my issue, I should clarify. It's draft position, which is earned by everyone who has played in GDL before. That's what I am against any change in, any other changes are fine by me. If we're speaking of changes, is it finally time to turn penalties off? Yes that lessens the B-check effectiveness somewhat, but with C/B available and C, it's something to think about. It will remove a lot LUCK from the game. Edited November 16, 2014 by Uncle Seth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Will not turn of penalties in GDL. Could pose it to other leagues but the game is boring without PP's. You neutralize the 'luck' by playing good D and killing the penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 One issue is replacements -- teams on a non-snaking draft are more stacked, so a top coach replacing a weaker player with a stacked team will throw a monkey wrench into this system. . This wouldn't be an issue. I replace people with coaches of similar skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depch Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I'm not trying to use it as an ultimatum to affect any decision. It's just my position and I'm being open about it. Surely GDL will go on without a hitch if I don't play just as countless others have stopped playing in various leagues over the years. Actually snake or no snake is not my issue, I should clarify. It's draft position, which is earned by everyone who has played in GDL before. That's what I am against any change in, any other changes are fine by me. If we're speaking of changes, is it finally time to turn penalties off? Yes that lessens the B-check effectiveness somewhat, but with C/B available and C, it's something to think about. It will remove a lot LUCK from the game. I can respect this, but as you know only last season really matters, other than that it's very slim what history has to do with it. But this is a respectable opinion and a very strong one for the benefits of not changing a thing. A system giving credit to being active is very good, hard to argue against. It's just that all these things maybe could still be credited to pick positioning, just that the draft is not snake, but it would take a bit of the original reasons for not having a snake draft. I also kinda would disagree to change it for the upcoming season, maybe introduce any possible changes a season earlier that would be this huge. I think the vote would have to have a 2/3 majority as well to introduce such a big changes. I would resist turning penalties off too. I experienced the jump from full rules & linechanges play already a big enough step for a more arcade style of play here in NA games, and turning penalties off would maybe make it too arcade for me even though I've become to like the setup here too. The idea of negating b-checks with it sounds interesting though, but that would work hard against me as well as I use b-check so much (would be interesting in blitz with wbug fix, c/b-fix and this penalties change to b-checks integrated somehow, could be too crazy), but would not vote against it for selfish reasons. Edited November 16, 2014 by Depch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKabs93 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 People actually find playing with penalties off fun? Nerfing the b check makes D impossible and makes players worthless :$. I would go as far to say that if b check didn't exist then this game wouldn't be alive in competitive the competitive fashion it is today. Try playing 2on2 and feel how fun it is to play D lol The idea of a non snaking draft is great, but I agree that replacements kind of wreck it all. Every season has multiple people who drop out, but it's sort of okay because all the teams are balanced. IMO I'd way way rather have an early pick in a snaking draft than a later pick because in this game C means everything. Having to have your best player as robitaille is punishment enough even if you have a solid second forward with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Replacements won't be an issue. I replace guys with coaches with similar calibre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 People actually find playing with penalties off fun? Nerfing the b check makes D impossible and makes players worthless :$. I would go as far to say that if b check didn't exist then this game wouldn't be alive in competitive the competitive fashion it is today. Try playing 2on2 and feel how fun it is to play D lol The idea of a non snaking draft is great, but I agree that replacements kind of wreck it all. Every season has multiple people who drop out, but it's sort of okay because all the teams are balanced. IMO I'd way way rather have an early pick in a snaking draft than a later pick because in this game C means everything. Having to have your best player as robitaille is punishment enough even if you have a solid second forward with him I knew TK would come flying in when removing b-check was mentioned, lol. Checking doesn't work in 2v2 because everyone is the same weight, so it's not a good comparison. I'd WOULD like to see a Blitz-type league without penalties, or hacked to nullify b-check. It wouldn't mean defense is impossible, but the value of heavier players would increase. There is no right or wrong, it'd just be a different kind of league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 nah that's not true Raph, the weight has nothing to do with why B doesn't work in 2v2. We've played it with pims on before and there's a HUGE difference in B chk effectiveness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I was thinking of something similar to what Smo recommended but something like this round 1: 1-24 round 2: 1-24 round 3: 24-1 and continue snaking. This would give the lower tiered guys a head start building their top 2 players, then evens things out players 3-7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 nah that's not true Raph, the weight has nothing to do with why B doesn't work in 2v2. We've played it with pims on before and there's a HUGE difference in B chk effectiveness I meant weight is why you can't C check in 2v2. Saying getting rid of b-check is like playing defense in 2v2 is incorrect...you'd be able to C check guys if they were different weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I was thinking of something similar to what Smo recommended but something like this round 1: 1-24 round 2: 1-24 round 3: 24-1 and continue snaking. This would give the lower tiered guys a head start building their top 2 players, then evens things out players 3-7 Careful here though...personally I feel top half of 2nd round is a dead man zone. TO ME, picking a late 1st, late 2nd, and early 3rd is actually BETTER than late 1st, early 2nd, late 3rd. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackandjose Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Penalties could be set to 1 minute to lessen the impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Careful here though...personally I feel top half of 2nd round is a dead man zone. TO ME, picking a late 1st, late 2nd, and early 3rd is actually BETTER than late 1st, early 2nd, late 3rd. But that's just me. wait so 23 46 51 is better than 23 26 71 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 J&J I like the 1min penalty reduction We use it in the 21 min TDL league and it's fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingraph Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 wait so 23 46 51 is better than 23 26 71 ? For GDL, to me, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStorm70 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Might be in the minority there, depends on the value you put on your 2/3 F's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackandjose Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 J&J I like the 1min penalty reduction We use it in the 21 min TDL league and it's fine Yeah, I thought it worked well in TDL too! Proportionally, it fits the game better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKabs93 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Ok ok raph you can have your point. That was an exaggeration I guess. You're also right that there's no right and wrong of course. But have you personally played many games with penalties off? You personally think it's more fun to make d tougher (not impossible like you said, but you can't really argue that it doesn't make d tougher) in a game where scores are already quite high? I know I'm a little biased because I love the b check. Also take everything I say with a grain of salt, since I haven't played in ages and have been an irrelevant figure in the community for a long time lol. I just like to post cuz I love the 94 community and like to help out by chipping in a little bit of activity here and there. Make whatever leagues you want! Edited November 17, 2014 by TomKabs93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutus Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I personally think that having a #1 seed & then waiting all those picks leaves you with a similar team as if you picked at then end. Personally, use snake & random selection. Why should mogs & jr always go to the worst players? If you want fair, take top 5 teams & give them 1st 5 picks of each round & snake the rest of the draft. Also, since you are handicapping top 5 teams, they aren't allowed to trade either. And top 5 picks is by commish rankings, not by previous season. This way if you need a brand new replacement, he's not on the bottom. But I'd be for random draft order w/ the snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutus Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Also, as a test, some top coaches using adp, could put together teams based off of if you started 3rd or 23rd & edit those teams into a rom & play some exis I think you'd find the teams comparible Edited November 17, 2014 by Brutus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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