MindDefect

Kega Fusion netplay testing

43 posts in this topic

I want some of us fellow gens players to give Kega Fusion a test run.

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Here are the advantages and disadvantages of using Kega Fusion over Gens/kaillera netplay

Advantages:

- Pure p2p (like Zsnes) built in the emu, unlike gens kaillera p2p which is basically just a hack, and not made specific for the given emulator

- The p2p netplay, runs the game, lag and framerate wise, just about exactly the same on both the host and client side. None of that "well the game ran smooth for me, don't know why it was choppy for you.." kinda stuff that we get with Gens kaillera, even with kaillera p2p!

- IF the game does ever lag, it slows the game down for both players, rather than skip massive amounts of frames to keep the speed up. If it slows down often, this means the host should set a higher latency setting, or use the Medium Bandwith setting rather than High.

- Like I said before, it NEVER seems to skip frames, thank god!

- if it ever does desync, it lets you know RIGHT AWAY. No mystery crap, of when it did, and what the score was

*EDIT:(thought this was true at the time, but might not be after all...my mistake if so)

- WILL desync much less, or maybe never, if using the medium bandwith setting, and a latency setting, set by the host at a number just under the ping of the client (could maybe go lower even). Great that these settings exist, as it helps ppl who have slightly unstable connections. WILL want to test this out with vocal, that will be the real test since he is having out of synch issues with Gens kaillera P2P

- MUCH better sound emulation than Gens

- Better, smoother looking video (enable Brighten, and use 2xSaI under render plugin), even with Vsync disabled

get 2xSaI from this render pack Here

Or this other pack with more filters

*these are optional of course

- Kega save states are the same format as gens after all, and they work for uploading in leagues already

- It seems if the two players DO NOT have the exact same version of the rom, even if it has the same name, it will say "non-matching rom" or something like that. This could fix some desync issues some people have.

- So many of us already have hamachi, and no one has had issues with it. Not hard at all to get new players to install and use it.

http://www.hamachi.cc

Disadvantages

- need to use hamachi if you can't open UDP port 5394

- no built in input/video game recorder

- Saving states for stats works fine by using the file menu, but the hotkey (f5) for saving is disabled during netplay, but this could possibly be changed through a hex edit? But the hotkey isn't absolutely needed anyways.

I would love it if some of you give this a shot and try some exhibitions with me or any others especially. And report back with your experience in this topic. Have used this for 94 before signing up for leagues on this site, playing my brother in California over a year ago. We probably got in 100 games or more, with very minimal lag issues and absolutely no desyncs.

When you test it with your opponent, make sure in the emulator, Vsync is off (cause it seems to make the fps not stay EXACTLY at 60), and that the host sets the latency high enough so you don't have slowdown lag. But setting the latency too high can make button response time too slow. Set it at a number as the same as, or 10-25ms under the ping of the client as i said before. You can fool around with the medium and high bandwith setting, but medium for sure should go without any problems.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: To host or connect to a game, you must load the genesis rom first, then go on file, netplay.

*Can also load the rom by dragging the actual rom file to Fusion.exe or to the emulator window tv fuzz/snow

And I completely forgot about this.... In-game chat with the Tab key!

EDIT2: Did a bit more testing..

Optional Settings that could help:

- Disable Auto Detect under Country, and make sure USA has a check by it

(having Auto Detect disabled, helps with issues where the game is out of synch from the get go, but you don't really notice it till gameplay starts.)

-Try not to mess with Sound options, but you can disable sound if you want.

-Video options can be configured to your liking, EXCEPT LEAVE VSync DISABLED, please don't have VSync enabled cause when you window the game, the fps goes above 60

-If you have a gray border that annoys you, you can make it black by disabling the border in the set config options.

-If any other issues abound, both players should close and restart Fusion.exe

Edited by MindDefect

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- Saving states for stats works fine by using the file menu, but the hotkey (f5) for saving is disabled during netplay, but this could possibly be changed through a hex edit? But the hotkey isn't absolutely needed anyways.

I'll see some time if i can track down the source code.. the kega site doesn't have it. I think it's closed-source, though, so I wouldnt' be able to hack that in.

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I seem to remember enjoying kega more...right before I started in GENS. Minddefect was the one that sent it to me.

Of course, if you want to use it in Capitalism or Classic, I have no problem as the commissioner.

EDIT: Since the site is down, here is KEGA:

Fusion351.zip

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I would play in those leagues if it was mandatory

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Let's Kegafy NHL94!

I SUPPORT THIS MOVEMENT.

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Minddefect and I played a series of games on the Kega Fusion. It was amazing, no lag, much more stable and smooth as ice. Its much more user-friendly, i would like to see it be mandatory in most leagues, as its advantages in my opinion, greatly out weigh its disadvantages....

KEGA FUSION IS THE BOMB!

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Minddefect and I played a series of games on the Kega Fusion. It was amazing, no lag, much more stable and smooth as ice. Its much more user-friendly, i would like to see it be mandatory in most leagues, as its advantages in my opinion, greatly out weigh its disadvantages....

KEGA FUSION IS THE BOMB!

There's still lag, which can also be called latency, which is the same with Gens. You never get the choppyness that can happen with Gens though, which is its biggest asset.

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If there is a version that can be made that includes video recording, I can help make it become better accepted.

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i can't even maximize the window on this damn kega

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If there is a version that can be made that includes video recording, I can help make it become better accepted.

The one problem with Kega is that it's not open source. What this means is that only one person can edit it, the guy who wrote the whole thing, Steve Snake (apparently his real name!). The reason it's closed-source, I gather, is that he made some sort of deal with SEGA to improve the emulator.. I think they gave him some code to improve the emulator, and he promised to keep it closed-source, or something like that.

The great thing about Gens is that anyone can edit it and make their own versions. This led to video recording, debug mode (which is used for pretty much all game code hacks), and so on.

BTW, I got in contact with the Kega author, and he says he'll enable saving via the F5 key and changing save slots via F6/F7 in the next version of Kega.

I'm not sure when the next version is coming, but I think it's relatively soon (months, i guess.. last release was early 2006)

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Kega does need a stretch option like gens had... then it would be really great

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Kega does need a stretch option like gens had... then it would be really great

Just do Full Screen, then it will take up the entire screen. Theres a quick key too to go back and fourth for messaging back to AIM.

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I really liked Kega when I tried it out. I think the control is much more precise and console like than Gens is.

One of the major reasons I haven't been playing online lately is that I just became fed up with the gens emulator as it stands. Even playing offline, I feel like there's something not right about the control. Of course that becomes even worse when you play online.

I've tested out some of the newer Gens32 emulators and the control is much smoother and responsive than the gens that everyone uses here. I would probably come back and play online if people moved on to either Kega or one of the Gens32 emulators.

You just have to try them out and you'll notice the difference in control right away.

Edited by Scribe99

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I just played beefjerkeyrules6 in a couple test games and I was hosting. Our first game didnt go so well for him because I had the latency set too low and it was causing him not to hear the sound right and lag too much. After adjusting the latency up one more notch, the game played fine on both sides and we had no problems.

So any future guys that are hosting, you should set the latency about 3/4 of your opponents ping average and there shouldnt be any problems.

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Looks like things are really shaping up to get things going for kega. It will also be instrumental in having alot of quality vets return to competition. This will in turn improve the integrity of the competition in any league which integrates the Kega Fusion.

I sincerely hope that most commish's will seriously consider this amazing tool for their respective leagues.

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I'll play a test game or two to check this out if anyone wants to do more testing.

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After doing some more testing today Im pleased to say that we wont need to change the databases in GDL and Blitz to use this Emulator. It works the same way Gens does.

Also, if you dont like the Default blurry screen, you can make it look more like Gens by changing Video setting 'Filtered' off.

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Also, if you dont like the Default blurry screen, you can make it look more like Gens by changing Video setting 'Filtered' off.

ty !

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Cup Chase GENS will Kegafy.

Capitalism League is KEGA-approved, as is Classic if you wish. They are also GENS-approved (I don't care which one you use just I agree right now - KEGA is better). There are still issues to be hammered out regarding community unity (o lol a rhyme), but f**k if I care whether you use GENS or KEGA.

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Also, if you dont like the Default blurry screen, you can make it look more like Gens by changing Video setting 'Filtered' off.

Man I thought you were joking at first that you actually prefer that look...bleh! B). Whatever makes you happy I guess :D

But if you prefer smoothed out over grainy, like me, downlaod 2xSaI from this render pack http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=47 and unzip the files to your Kega directory which allows you to select the 2xSaI renderer.

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I played MIndDefect and HABS last niht on KEGA and it was flat out DAWESOME! Highly recomend it to everyone. The key test for me will be trying it with west coasters.

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Just played hokkee and it was smooth. Key is setting the latency correctly.

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it was very smooth but i found the game slower

Edited by hokkeefan

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expected i guess because Hokkee and Gr8199 are both in western canada.

How do you know what latency to set it at? Me and MindDefect played at 100 when i hosted and 66 when he hosted. No noticeable difference. The settings are for bandwidth and latency. We had bandwidth at Med and Latency at both the 100 and 66.

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expected i guess because Hokkee and Gr8199 are both in western canada.

How do you know what latency to set it at? Me and MindDefect played at 100 when i hosted and 66 when he hosted. No noticeable difference. The settings are for bandwidth and latency. We had bandwidth at Med and Latency at both the 100 and 66.

Ok, I will try to explain exactly what the latency settting is. Latency basically is like ping time. Try starting a network game by yourself, setting the latency really high like 300. You will notice a big delay in button response time from when you press a direction/button and when it registers on screen. Setting it at 0 is exactly the same as playing a rom offline.

The number you put this, will be the EXACT timing from when either player inputs a button, to when it will register to both players onscreen. Setting it higher is more passive, lower is more aggressive. The issue if setting it too low, is that if the ping (number in parenthesis before the netplay session starts, pay attention to the number by the client, not the host since that's always 0) , which is the ping in milliseconds between the 2 players, ends up much higher than the latency setting, it can't catch up to the timing of the network game, and both players will experience the fps dropping below 60 and/or experience stutters.

Now sometimes a little bit of stuttering can be unavoidable even with a very high latency setting, in that case it's because one or both the players don't have the cleanest connection between each other (because of packet loss, etc.). But Kega still handles these unstable network issues better than kaillera imo. Really no point in setting the latency 2 or more notches higher than the ping. To maybe ensure a 100% non-stutter game, setting it 1 notch higher than the ping would be a very passive setting. A setting to make the most of the the players ping with each other, so you have a very low button response/delay time, and most likely will still be smooth as well, is probably right at or just a notch below the ping of the connection between the 2 players (number in parenthesis).

If you find the ping fluctuates up and down a bit, a latency setting of the average ping would probably be good. If the ping is going completely bonkers, like from 70 to 500, one of you is probably having isp issues, or has left their p0rn download running..

It isn't till you set the latency over 100, when the button delay time starts to get a lot more noticeable from my experience.

The bandwidth setting (low,med,high) is kinda like the keyframe setting when you play on a kaillera server (good20,excellent30,lan60). I will take a guess than medium is like the excellent setting from the feel of it, maybe better, dunno. It's kinda like how many frames per second the network game is checking for button input, but of course setting it too high can cause instability. It's like an accuracy in how it detects your button presses.

Whatever you do, don't set it on low, because that feels like almost like 15 keyframe or lower to me. Low is probably made for slower than 56k connections. High probably would work for 95% of players that have good pings and clean broadband connections to each other. But medium doesn't feel much different, and is probably safest to just use it every time for when you play.

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Ok, I will try to explain exactly what the latency settting is. (...)

In short

1) set Bandwidth to High (we're not on 28.8k fax modems anymore!)

2) when you set up a game, watch the number beside your opponent's name (this is their ping/latency) and try to set the Latency slider to the lowest setting ABOVE the highest latency number you often see (so if you regularly see numbers up to 57, then try to set to slider to around 60... if you see a higher number once every 4-5 seconds, ignore it).

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In short

1) set Bandwidth to High (we're not on 28.8k fax modems anymore!)

DONT set the Bandwidth to High because it can cause dsynchs and less stability. Go with the safe bet, Medium.

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DONT set the Bandwidth to High because it can cause dsynchs and less stability. Go with the safe bet, Medium.

I think I totally matters on who you play. They key is having a stable connection, that doesn't spike.

There are certain players on here, you know who you are, who's connections are all over the map, and honestly, it sucks playing them because it's almost like your pc has to adapt to their timing, giving the worse connection the advantage. I also recommend not using a wireless connection unless you are positive it's not spiking. Wireless connections tend to spike up and down more imo.

To test your connection's "spiky-ness". go to windows start menu --> run --> type cmd in the box --> then type ping espn.com -t or whatever website you'd like.

You will see your ping time checked every second off of that website. If it's all over the place then you have a problem connection. And for the sanity of all of us, you should get that thing fixed before going online with it.

Edited by Scribe99

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I dissagree with you scribb, as alot of the 'spikyness' can depend on your location and ISP. Sometimes you cant change the connection with your ISP unless you spend more money monthy to fix it.

Just to be safe, go Medium Bandwith and there shouldnt be a problem.

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