bradu
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Posts posted by bradu
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posted this in the 93 forum last night when I discovered it, but it's relevant to this question. I found that with line changes turned OFF, the game does not have the limit of several minutes BETWEEN fights. Still seems to take at least 3-4 minutes for the first fight of the game, but after that I've seen them happen as quickly as next faceoff. Again, this is all using demo mode.
First, has anyone made any roms for different seasons other than the 1983 and the current ones? In particular, I'm looking for 60's and 70's. I know a guy made all the 70's and 80's seasons for 94, but can't seem to find any for 93.Second, has anyone figured out how to edit the actual mechanics of the game? I've done tons of tests on demo mode (which I've detailed fairly extensively in the 93 forum), and there's a bunch of things kinda screwy about the fighting. Takes at least 5 minutes for the first fight of the game, at least 5 minutes in between fights, like there's some sort of hidden tension meter that starts over after every fight. It'd be nice if this were removed so it wasn't so predictable when a fight would happen.
Also it's impossible for a fight to happen without at least one of the fighters being at least a 71 in fighting. It'd be nice to see that changed as well.
Still sorta surprised no one has figured out how to add fighting into 94.
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I accidentally used 'roughness' and 'aggressiveness' synonymously above, didn't mean to. I'm pretty sure that aggressiveness has to do with how likely a guy is to take a penalty. Not positive, but that was my understanding. Not sure if it has any effect if penalties are turned off.
Roughness, on the other hand, I really don't know about.
aggressiveness probably has more to do with how well they chase the puck (and guys with the puck). roughness, i'm not sure about.. maybe something to do with fighting (i play 94, so I don' tknow!) -
I've been doing some fairly extensive testing as I'm trying to create this 1960 rom. All of my tests are done in demo mode. I've run into frustration in the past because in demo mode, I've found that it's nearly impossible for a first period fight (10 minute periods), and if a fight DOES happen, it will be late in the period.
The other thing is that, once a fight happens, that 'timer', resets...ie, the next fight won't happen until at least 5 minutes on the game clock has passed. (might be slightly lower, but I do not recall ever seeing two fights in the same 5 minute chunk on demo mode.)
Then, by accident, I found something very bizarre...If you turn line changes OFF, these limits do NOT seem to be in effect. Well, it still takes at least 3 and a half minutes for the FIRST fight, but after that, all bets are off, fights can happen at will.
I did this test with an 'enforcer's edition' that someone here made (77?) I pitted the two fighting teams against each other, and in 10 minute periods with line changes ON, I had 5 fights in the first game. Then I tried line changes OFF, and the game had 13 fights! After more tests, I've found a second fight happen as soon as FOUR SECONDS later when line changes are off, compared to roughly 5 minutes with line changes on. Keep in mind that using these 2 teams, virtually everyone on all lines has a 100 fight rating (a few 85s).
Can anyone explain this? Do the players each have some sort of 'intensity meter' that resets every time they get to the bench? That would make sense however I have seen a fight happen in the first few seconds of a period, as long as there was not a fight towards the end of the previous period.
I'm stumped.
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anyone know what the 'roughness' rating is? How does it affect gameplay? I'm also curious if anyone knows more about the aggression rating...I know it has to do with how often a player takes penalties, but do you think 2 fighters with the same fight rating, if one of them has a higher aggression is he more likely to be the one to fight?
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First, has anyone made any roms for different seasons other than the 1983 and the current ones? In particular, I'm looking for 60's and 70's. I know a guy made all the 70's and 80's seasons for 94, but can't seem to find any for 93.
Second, has anyone figured out how to edit the actual mechanics of the game? I've done tons of tests on demo mode (which I've detailed fairly extensively in the 93 forum), and there's a bunch of things kinda screwy about the fighting. Takes at least 5 minutes for the first fight of the game, at least 5 minutes in between fights, like there's some sort of hidden tension meter that starts over after every fight. It'd be nice if this were removed so it wasn't so predictable when a fight would happen.
Also it's impossible for a fight to happen without at least one of the fighters being at least a 71 in fighting. It'd be nice to see that changed as well.
Still sorta surprised no one has figured out how to add fighting into 94.
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I got a wild hair last night, and started creating an 'original 6' 1960 version of NHLPA 93. I've been studying the 50's and 60's of late for a fantasy hockey replay league that I'm in, and I suddenly remembered I had this old NHLPA 93 rom that I haven't used in years. Thought it would be fun to do this, and if people are interested and I have fun with it, I might do a version every 5 NHL years or so (ie, 60, 65, 70, 75).
Is this something anyone is interested in?
PS speaking of fantasy hockey I've got 3 different leagues, 2 of which have openings. If you are interested in fantasy replay hockey (think demo mode or 'simulate' all games with an EA sports game, but you manage a team, make trades, lines, draft, etc). It's totally free. If interested in either a 7374 or current league, please contact me at apbaahl[at]hotmail.com
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It's ok, we can agree to disagree, I have no problem with that. I agree that Brashear has, at times, been an insult to fighters. I'm not a fan of the guy by any means. But I also don't let that get in the way of assessing him...the guy dominated for years and is still doing it today. He does hug too much, but when he does let loose, he is good. And his hugging, while boring, keeps him from getting hit.
What you're forgetting about Boogaard is that he did all of that in ONE season! Brennan, Vandermeer, Fedoruk...not all time greats, but tough guys. Who did Kocur KO? Jim Kyte was damn good, but most of the other guys he really crushed weren't top competition either.
Laraque doesn't put fear into people the way that a Probert, Kocur, or Twist did. BUT, he would still beat those guys more often than not in a head to head fight.
I agree with you that I liked the past guys better, that they fought with more ferocity and instinct, that they were more exciting. But I think if today's best fighters went head to head against the fighters from the past, the new guys would win.
Anyway, it's been a fun little debate...if you enjoy this stuff, I'd really love to get your input on fighters from every era for the hockey fight simulator!-Bradu
I usually like what you have to say bradu, but this post is totally wrong. Today's enforcers are no where near that level. Probert's dominance over the NHL can never be matched, he was THAT good. For me, the difference today is that there is not many top level fighters. The talent pool is very, very low so the upper level fighters tend to shine more. Is Brasher really considered a "great" fighter or fantastic hugger??? I have seen EVERY one of his fightes and though he is strong, he his an insult to fighters everywhere. Brasher vs Pete Worell are some of the worst ever!! I'll hug you and you hug me and we'll punch each other in the back of the head. Watch every fight and you'll see this. There is a reason Brasher get's no respect. Boogaard?? Please, your judging his fights on today's losers. Who has he KO'ed that has any self worth? Kip Brennan? Gillies? Derek?? Vandemer?? Simply put, these guys are just low rank contenders. Boogaard has lost decisively every time against Laraque and even to Brasher? He's big and has some skill but If you think he could last with a "prime" McSorley your wrong. He needs to improve on his balance. And your telling me that Brown's left wouldn't mess him up?? And as for Laraque? I'll bet if you even asked him he would tell you that Probert was his mentor. They've fought twice during Probie's "fall from grace" day's and they were both draws (slight edge to Laraque in one of those fights). Do you really think this would've happened if it was the other way around?? Laraque is the best today and that cannot be disputed but you CANNOT tell me he even put's half the fear in people like Probie and Kocur did (especially Probert). Probert was an animal during his prime. Even past champs like Twist, Grimson, Kocur, Fotiu, Clark Gillies and Brown never had that type of presence and fear AND for sooooo long. Laraque is more of a smart fighter (like you say and I agree) but he lacks the animal instict and pure viciousness other's of the past lacked (think Geatz, O'Riley, Nilian, Miller, Berube). This is also because hockey is much different sport today than it was. And that's too bad.I'm sure you know your stuff very well. Please look into the facts and you can see the answers as plain as day.
P.S.
In all my years as a hockey fighter historian (15 years) you are the only person who has ever said that today's fighters are better. And you even said that they would....gulp...dominate.
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I agree that Twist hadn't hit his prime yet. I just didn't really care to be honest, I always liked Twist so I guess I cheated for him
I actually disagree with your assessment of today's fighters vs the 80's/90's guys. I understand what you're saying, nobody today DOMINATES the way Probie did, or fights with the same fire as those guys. But I bet you if Brashear, Laraque, Boogaard went head to head with those guys they'd dominate them. Today's fighters are a lot bigger, stronger, and a lot more technically refined. Guys like Brashear and Laraque are masters at tying up their opponents and making sure they don't get hit clean. Boogaard isn't that great, but he's just downright scary with how big he is and how hard he hits. If you look at his record from last year and this year, he knocks guys down in like 1/3 of his fights. It's pretty crazy. So while I agree that today's heavyweights aren't as exciting as those of yesteryear, I really think they'd dominate them head to head.
I like the rankings though I wouldn't give Twist a 100 because he wasn't that good at this time. He got beaten a lot and didn't get great until he started doing steroids a few years later. As for the new fighter scores, those look great. It's funny how today's heavyweights don't even come close to the late 80's and early 90's heavyweights. Laraque, Boogaard, Brasher, and a host of others would get killed Probert, Brown, McSorley, Kocur, Domi, Geatz, etc. in their primes. I would put these guys down as the the greatest enforcers ever in hockey history. Man, was I glad to be a fan of hockey at this time!! I could care less about the sport today. -
I'd give Chara a 71. 85 and he starts fighting way too much. I'm sure I missed some other guys, I was going by a list of fighting majors so anyone who hasn't fought yet this year (I bet Chara hasn't) I would have overlooked...
I agree with all that completely, except for what do you give Chara? He can rumble with the best but he really doesnt fight a ton but he needs to be mentioned. I think that I'll keep the questionable 71's at 71 because there really arent many fights with the way I have the game now and with league toughness way down since 93, it needs all the fighters it can get. -
man, there really needs to be 1 more rating in there. I know I can go down to 57, 42, 28, 14 but once you get below 71 the guys simply won't fight. Every fight I've EVER had or seen in NHLPA at least one of the guys is a 71, so for all intents and purpuses, anything below 71 is irrelevant.
Some of the guys are borderline. Here's a few I almost gave an 85: McCarty, May, Downey, Roy, Barnaby, Perrott, J.Gratton.
And a couple others I listed as 71 but they fight so seldom that even if they're decent fighters, I'm not sure they deserved a 71. Guys like Lindros, Sutton, White, Devries, etc.
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ok here goes:
Ana:
Parros 85
Obrien, Thornton, O'Donnell, Moen 71
Atl:
Boulton 85
Devries, Exelby, Coburn, Hnidy, Mellanby, Sutton 71
Bos:
Brookbank 85
Alberts 71
Buf:
Peters 85
Mair, Gaustad 71
Cal:
Godard 85
McCarty, Prust, B.Ference, Ro.Regehr, Phaneuf 71
Car:
C.Adams, Commodore 71
Chi:
Low, Vandermeer 85
Lapointe, Wisneiwski, Richmond 71
Colorado:
Laperriere, McCormick, Love, May 71
Columbus:
Shelley 85
Tollefson, Verot, Goertzen 71
Dal:
Barnaby, Ott, Morrow, Lindros 71
Det:
Norton, Bootland 71
Edm:
Winchester, Greene, Torres, J.Smith 71
Fla:
Montador, Gratton, Roberts, Allen 71
Lak:
Ivanans 85
Cowan, Avery, Kostopoulos 71
Min:
Boogaard 100
Mon:
Downey, Murray, Souray 71
Nas:
Hordichuk 85
Tootoo, Weber, Nichol, Hartnell, Yonkman, Henry 71
Njd:
Janssen 85
Rupp, Lacouture, White, Perrott, Marshall 71
Nyi:
Simon 85
Asham, Witt 71
Nyr:
Orr 85
Hollweg 71
Ott:
McGratton, Neil 85
Bois 71
Phi:
Fedoruk 85
Eager, Richards, Hatcher, Grant, Kane 71
Pho:
Laraque 100
Gratton, Nolan, Morris, Boynton, Scatchard 71
Pit:
Cairns 85
Thorburn, Carkner 71
San:
Parker 85
Clowe, Bell, Davison, M.Smith 71
Stl:
Walker 85
Mayers, Jackman, King, Tkachuk, Guerin, Hinote 71
Tam:
Tarnasky, Craig, Pratt, Roy 71
Tor:
Belak 85
Tucker, Ondrus, B.Brown 71
Van:
McIver, Bieksa, Rypien, Bouck, Cooke 71
Was:
Brashear 100
Erskine 85
Clark, Bradley, Sutherby 71
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alrighty, here you go:
http://www.geocities.com/bradutterstrom/1stline.bin
I switched Brown and McSorely to 100's per request. Each team has their best fighter on the first line. But of course you can use NOSE or GENEAHE to fix the lines (and ratings) the way you want them.
Also, you fight fans might appreciate this...it's a hockey fight simulator (text based game):
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I'll upload my rom later tonight. I didn't make McSorely and Brown 100's, but I don't disagree with you on either of those calls, both guys were borderline. I did give 100's to Probert, Domi, Kocur, Twist, Crowder. I can't tell you exactly who was created extra, but I'll throw out a few names: John Kordic, Kruse, Simard, Kyte, Crowder, Vial, DeBrusk, Leroux, Ciccone, Janssens, Roberge, McLelland, Antoski, Poeschek. There might have been a few more. Also Dan Kordic, Jim McKenzie, and others got the higher fight ratings that they deserved.
Byatch, I can tell you who I think from today should be 100, 85, and 71. Below that, it really doesn't matter as they pretty much won't fight.
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I did a season of demo games in fast forward on NHLPA 93 and thought some of you might enjoy seeing a few results.
I have periods set to 8.5 minutes. Each team played 11 games, 1 against each team in their conference.
I put each team's top fighter on the 1st line, and lots of the fighters on 2nd line to try to increase the fighting. There were only a couple games the entire season without a fight, and a couple with 3 fights (but only if it went to OT.) About 90% of games had exactly one fight.
I'll just list some of the highlights: goals-assists-points, (fight record in parenthises)
BOS
Oates 10-3-13
Neely 6-2-8, (1-7)
Byers (2-3)
BUF
Lafontaine 8-5-13
Mogilny 10-3-13
Ray (5-5 1 ko)
May (2-1)
Donnelly (2-1)
CAL
Fleury 15-6-21
Roberts 7-8-15 (2-2, 1KO)
Berube 6-5-11 (5-4, 3KO)
Suter 1-7-8 (great stats for a dman)
CHI
Larmer 12-3-15
Roenick 8-4-12
Grimson (7-4)
S.Smith (2-1)
DET
Yzerman 8-4-12
Fedorov 8-2-10
Probert (11-2, 4KO)
EDM
Damphousse 12-2-14
Nicholls 6-7-13
J.Murphy 7-3-10
Debrusk (5-1-1, 1ko)
Manson (1-3)
HAR
Cullen 4-6-10
McKenzie (4-4-1, 1ko)
NYI
Turgeon 11-5-16
Thomas 11-5-16
Vukota (2-2, 1ko)
LAK
Robitaille 11-3-14
J.Miller (9-1, 2ko)
McSorely (3-4, 1ko)
MIN
Modano 7-3-10
Churla (5-0, 1ko)
Tinordi (0-5)
MON
Savard 4-6-10
Nilan 7-3-10 (7-4)
Corson 9-0-9 (2-2)
Odelein (0-3)
NJD
Stastny 9-8-17
Richer 13-4-17
McKay 8-2-10 (4-3)
Kasatonov 1-7-8
S.Stevens 2-3-5 (5-2)
NYR
Messier 7-5-12
Graves 10-2-12
Domi (11-1, 2ko)
OTT
Peluso 7-1-8 (3-3)
PHI
Brindamour 7-5-12
Recchi 11-1-12
Da.Brown (2-4)
PIT
K.Stevens 10-5-15
Mario 9-5-14
Jagr 8-5-13
Ulfie (1-6, 1ko)
QUE
Nolan 12-1-13 (2-2)
Sakic 5-6-11
Sundin 7-4-11
Twist (7-1-1)
SAN
Falloon 10-4-14
Gaetz (2-6-1)
Odgers (2-2)
STL
Hull 10-8-18
Janney 7-7-14
Shanahan 6-7-13 (0-3)
Bassen 7-4-11 (from 2nd line!)
Quintal (2-0)
TAM
Semenov 8-5-13
McRae (4-2)
T.Hunter (3-2)
TOR
Clark 8-3-11 (1-2)
Gilmour 5-5-10
Baumgartner (5-4)
VAN
Bure 14-3-17
Linden 6-7-13
Odjick (2-2)
Lumme 3-5-8
Diduck (0-6)
WAS
Ciccarelli 11-2-13
D.Hunter 3-8-11
A.May 5-3-8 (9-3)
WIN
Steen 8-4-12
Elyniuk 3-7-10
Poeschek (4-1)
Cronin (4-3)
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byatch, I'd be willing to help. Drop me an email at apbaahl@hotmail.com
Hulk, I see I'm not the only guy around here who was obsessed with getting the fighter ratings accurate.
I made even more changes than you did to my rom, however. I'm surprised you didn't lower guys who sucked like Gord Murphy, Grant Ledyard, Alex Godynyuk to name a few, but then lowered a guy like Dale Hunter who fought all the time (though as you noted, usually lost.)Would you or any others be interested in the rom I did if I made it available for download?
One special note about it, I created some fighters who were left out of 93 (actually someone from here helped me create them). I also edited each team's lineup so that the 2nd line was the 'fighting line'.
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I'm playing the SNES version but I'm used to the genesis version. I am shocked that there is no way to view any player stats, scoring summary, or penalty summary! Is there any way to change this? I was going to give the SNES a try, but it's kinda pointless if there aren't even any stats. I'm using the ZSNES emulator.
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Interesting note, in that clip they have the discussion about how it sucks that the fighting has been taken out (which would suggest that it was actually NHL 94 that they were playing.) But in truth it IS NHLPA 93, fighting and all. Proof? Watch the video clip and while Roenick scored and they're showing the instant replay of it, you can see that Steve Smith and Rob Blake are still in the box serving their fighting majors.
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I've done some pretty extensive research and testing on the fighting, and I'm still trying to find ways to make it more realistic/accurate. This is basically just going to be a list of my observations. Basically, I have 'simulated' hundreds of demo games in fast forward, and then taken notice of how many fights there are, when they occur, etc.
Here's how I have these games set up: I have modified the fighter ratings and the lines. Most any guy who fought 5 times or more in 9192 has a 71 or higher for fighting, with about 5 guys rated a 100. Each team has their best fighter on the first line somewhere. So there's almost always 2 fighters on the ice at the same time. Almost every team has at least one fighter rated 85 or 100 (I think I have STL as the lone exception, with a few 71's)
*every fight MUST have at least one participant with a 71 or higher fight rating. I have NEVER seen a fight with two players rated 57 or lower.
*I don't know that crowd meter has any effect on fighting, but it does seem that
*fights DO NOT HAPPEN in the first 5 minutes or so of the game. Even on 10 minute periods, a first period fight is extremely rare, and will almost always occur towards the end of the period. I've actually been doing 8:30 periods, and so far in over 100 demo games I have seen ONE first period fight.
*there always seems to be several minutes between fights. It seems that what's happening is that there is some sort of hidden tension meter that takes several minutes to build into a fight (which would explain why there are no fights early in the game), and this meter seems to reset itself after each fight. So, my guess is that the MINIMUM amount of time for the meter to build up is around 7 or 8 minutes before a fight can occur. This then resets, so the next fight won't be for another minimum of 7 or 8 minutes.
(an exception would be if there were an abundance of fighters rated 100)
*the fighter on the ice with the highest fight rating is almost certain to be the one to fight if there is a fight. For instance, let's say I set it so that each team had a 71 on each line, but no one rated higher. Every time there is a fight, it's quite likely to be the two 71's going at it. Now let's say I move an 85 on to the line, the 71 on his line will see a major decrease in the # of fights he gets, because now if he's on the ice he's only the second most likely to fight. If each team has a 100 on their line, even if the rest of the line is all 85's, there will very rarely be a fight between 2 of the 85s. For instance, I've been testing a bunch of 20 min period games between the two all-star teams, but I put a 100 on each team's first line. In about 5 games between the two, I have yet to see a fight that did not feature one of the 100's. I'm getting 5 fights just about every game, with very few exceptions (I just had a 4, but haven't seen a 6 yet.) The first fight occurs in the middle of the 1st period. The next one seems to occur early in the 2nd, then another mid-late 2nd, then another early 3rd and another mid-late 3rd. If the first fight doesn't occur until late 1st, then the 2nd fight won't occur until mid 2nd, and so on.
In my demo games of 8:30 periods, in about 100 games I have yet to see a game with 3 fights UNLESS it went into OT. I have only seen ONE game with ZERO fights, so it's about 99% certain that there will be at least one fight, but about 99% certain that there will be no more than 2.
One thing that makes this inaccurate is that it means that no matter how many 'fighters' each team has, all teams will end up with roughly the same # of fights over a season. Because the # of fights that can occur is still limited by the time in between fights. So, take for instance my Penguins, who have Ulfie as their first line 71, but really nobody else. However, the Pens still have a fight every game, and since the 1st line gets 80% of the ice time, 80% of the time it's been Ulfie to fight. I think Grant Jennings got a fight at 71 from 2nd line. On the other hand, I've got Detroit who is loaded with fighters. Probert 100 and Konstantinov 71 on the first line. Crowder 100, Chiasson, Gallant, Primeau all 71's on the 2nd line. However, Probert and Crowder are the only one's who've fought! All the others don't have a chance to fight since there's someone rated higher on their line. Also, Pittsburgh and Detroit have almost the same # of fights (Det probably gets 10% more).
Anyway, I'll stop there, I'm really rambling at this point and I doubt many people even care. But I'm hoping that someone who knows a thing or two about programming can find some way to fix any of this...maybe find a way to make it possible for fights to occur early in the game, or within a short amount of time between them. Or for there to be a chance for two 42's to have a fight, or for 2 71's to fight even if there's a 100 and an 85 on the same lines. Or for two teams who are stacked with fighters to have 4 or 5 fights in 10 min periods, while two soft teams like Pit and Min are not likely to have a single fight.
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anyone know where else I can find info on 93? Discussions, downloads, hacks, whatever. I know I've found some sites in the past but I'm having trouble locating them.
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I just got this rom and didn't know it existed. Within seconds, I had a fight! (in 93 I beleive it's impossible to get a fight in the first 5 minutes of a game).
Does anyone know where I can find the rosters? At least for Canada, US, Sweden, Soviet Union, etc some of the players had to be guys I'd know of.
how to delete goalies?
in NHLPA '93
Posted
I'm working on an Original 6 1950 roster set. I'm pretty much done, but each team used just one or 2 goalies back then for the whole season, and in NHLPA 93 some teams have as many as 4. How do I delete the other goalies? I've got 2 different programs and neither seems able to do it (NOSE and GENEAHE)
Any help would be appreciated.