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hnfoo

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Posts posted by hnfoo

  1. 4 hours ago, BillC52865 said:

    hnfoo's chill pill prescription must've ran out. That said, Naples ROM is pretty well done. It just takes a little getting used to it and feeling the rhythm of gameplay. Sometimes you DON'T have to flatten your opponent to steal the puck from him, for example. BTW hnfool, our opinions do NOT need your approval.

    I didn't mention you by name, but you responded as if I did.  So is it then safe to assume that you are aware you sometimes come across as a bit of a dick?  Maybe you're the greatest guy in the world.  I have no idea.  But when you, without a polite preamble, or appreciation or gratitude, proceed to point out all the things you don't like about something that took a considerable amount of time and effort by someone who is under zero obligation to freely share their creation with you...it makes you look like a dick.  Do you not see that? 

    • Like 2
  2. Thanks Naples!!

    Your work is greatly appreciated.

    It really bugs me that people can freely download this, and then proceed to b***h about it, or just jump into the middle of a critique without bothering to even express any gratitude beforehand.  I think such people should be insta-perma-banned without warning or mercy.

     

     

  3. When you load the genesis rom into IDA Pro, one of the things you see is:

    seg000:0100 0000008F C SEGA GENESIS ©T-50 1993.JULNHL Hockey '94

    July 93? Is that what this is saying? If yes, that's when the game was maybe finalized and sent off to be manufactured?

    You're involved in the hacking side of things, Tru, yes? Can you shed light?

    By chance, I came across this...

    http://www.zophar.net/fileuploads/2/10614uauyw/Genesis_ROM_Format.txt

    Which talks about the info on a Genesis rom. For instance, in the "©T-50" from above, "50" is the company code for EA.

    As far as I can tell, a strict definition of the the date part, is that it is the date of the copyright.

  4. An interesting reddit thread in the ELI5 (explain like I'm five) subreddit, about AI in sports video games.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1mjqeq/eli5_how_does_ai_in_sports_videogames_work/

    From the top rated post:

    "Good sports AI needs to fool you. The goal is to convince the human player that what the AI opponent did is what would plausibly happen in the real world. You want the human player to say "geez, that was good" and even "I hate this game (because it's legitimately hard)"... but not "that was stupid" or "bullshit, I hate this game because that would never happen."

    If your goal is realism, I suppose that is true.

    In a remake of 94' though, one the initial goals, might be to have the AI play more like a human - playing 94'. Even just getting the computer to use the speed burst, would be a major improvement.

  5. YES! But I remember the cabinet being larger where you stood on a disc, and don't remember there being a seat.

    Regardless, the game is the same.

    Neat coincidence: a youtube show about arcade games that I subscribe to, released a new video today, with, what must be the variant of Discs of Tron that you remember. "Environmental Discs of Tron". Relevant section starts @4:42.

    This guy gives a complete tour. Looks like he has a complete/deluxe After Burner too!? That's a game I've wanted to play ever since I saw it in Terminator 2.
    *edit* - Hmmm. Actually, maybe these are both the same as the one in the first video? I dunno.
  6. When you load the genesis rom into IDA Pro, one of the things you see is:

    seg000:0100 0000008F C SEGA GENESIS ©T-50 1993.JULNHL Hockey '94

    July 93? Is that what this is saying? If yes, that's when the game was maybe finalized and sent off to be manufactured?

    You're involved in the hacking side of things, Tru, yes? Can you shed light?

  7. Is it alright if I just keep posting relevant/related s**t in this thread? Make it like a sort of one-stop-shop for this subject? If not, someone tell me. Moving on...

    Here's a recent thread, with someone working on a game? If you go to the github page that he links, there's a bunch of hockey sounding stuff on it.

    http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16706-looking-for-a-sprite-sheet-for-a-nhl94-like-hockey-game

  8. Really old thread, but trying to nail the 94 release date down is worthwhile.

    Here are some more old mag scans, with even more conflicting info.

    September 93 GamePro. A preview of NHL 94'. Says both gen and snes versions coming in November. And keeping in mind, the issue probably came out in the middle of July (as they did/do).

    http://i.imgur.com/UCPt0Xp.jpg

    Now, the next issue of GamePro. October 93 (probably came out in middle of August) A review of both versions. In the "score" window, the Genesis version is listed as being available in September. The snes version, November.

    http://i.imgur.com/F8e5YFR.jpg

    Interestingly, also in the October 93 GamePro, there is a preview of Madden 94. In the preview, an exact release date is given for it. November 19th. Is that what wound up happening I wonder? If it is, is it possible the NHL's were released on the same date?

    http://i.imgur.com/8YAplCA.jpg

    Here's a review in the November 93 issue of Game Players of the Genesis version. No dates given in it, but might be interesting to some:

    http://i.imgur.com/yaGU7uQ.jpg

    And here's the review (in the Sega Visions sense of the word) in the Oct/Nov 93' Sega Visions. Same deal. No mention of dates.

    http://i.imgur.com/BSRpRcI.jpg

  9. Just for fun and to keep this thread rolling...

    Let's say the 94 engine was re-created, from scratch, perfectly. Do you stop there? Or, do you try to improve it? Maybe you do both. Why limit yourself?

    Maybe you have an "original mode", and "new mode".

    For the new mode, what would you try to do?

    One, probably simple thing, I would do, would be to make it slightly easier to score with a slap shot. Like, on a PP, with a slapper from the point. In 94', rarely, if ever, are there goals like these. In 93', this happens a little more frequently. Sometimes, it was because the goalie was way out of position (which happens a lot in 93'), but also, sometimes not. Sometimes, the goalie just doesn't make the save.

    This brings about a much deeper gameplay question/subject, which is:

    In the early EA games, there are a handful of sure-fire ways to score. We all know them. Once you know what they are, and how to execute them, they can be pulled off pretty much at will (provided you have the right player).

    Is this good or bad, do you think?

    On the one hand, it rewards skill, and that is crucial. If everything was random, and the likelihood of scoring was based on say...how many shots you had accumulated up until that point, I don't think that would be good. You'd wind up with too many lame-ass goals that required no skill on the part of the player - and too many skillful, adept attempts, being stopped. No good (imo).

    On the other hand, having certain moves/scoring techniques succeeding at, or near, a rate of 100%, has obvious drawbacks. Mainly, it makes playing the computer fairly predictable and boring.

    A simple solution I think, would be to just add a little more variation in the abilities of the AI goalies. Using the "forehand dunk" (video here) as an example: it's a move which is easy to learn and pull-off, dexterity wise (i.e. it's not like doing Zangief's spinning pile-driver in SF II), and it can be successfully executed even with in-game players of fairly low skill ratings. With a Roenick or Yzerman, it's beyond easy. You will always score.

    Conceptually, on paper, it would be very easy to eliminate the automatic success rate of this move, by making it so that the goalie, occasionally, "stands on his head". Say, have even the lowest rated goalie in the game, stop Roenick (as an example) 2 or 3 times out of ten (for example). Maybe even have this tied-in to the current game context/situation (near the end of a close game, OT, an early blowout, etc.) and maybe in turn, tie that in with a "clutch" rating, and a "choke" rating. At this point it occurs to me that newer 'NHL' games might have something like this?

    But, it would be important that this new increase in the unpredictability of the A.I., be kept visually and otherwise, in the "realm" of the AI. Like, if you did a forehand dunk, and the AI determined that in this instance, it was NOT going to be successful, the feedback to the player, both visually, and through the controller, would have to be same as on a goal. Like, it couldn't be that the puck comes off the stick differently, or the player (on-screen) moved differently, or wasn't as responsive, in those split seconds. It would have to be that the goalie just moved quicker. This all seems kind of obvious, but there are some fighting games where I think the AI cheats in this way. Like when you crank up the difficulty setting, and suddenly your character seems to not react as quickly. Though, there's a good chance I'm completely wrong about all this. I don't know anything about AI.

  10. It was only at the arcade, and for a limited time.

    It was the sequel to the original Tron, and called "Discs of Tron". It was a huge cabinet(referred to as the environmental version) you stood in, to simulate as if you were playing, just like in the movie. Man, was that game amazing. Discs wizzed by you, in surround sound. I read that the cabinet weighed over 700 pounds.

    It's one of those items that you put on your "buy if I ever win the big lottery" list.

    This one?

  11. I can't do 5, as I love these 7 almost equally. Contra is my #1 though. For the arcade games, 99% of my time playing them has been through emu's, if that needs to be said. With the exception of Warcraft, I still play most of these semi-regularly, with the occasional marathon session thrown in.


    Contra (NES)
    Out Zone (Arcade)
    NHL 93 & 94 (Genesis) - I go back and forth
    Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis)
    Warcraft II - The PC version is way better, but I played it mostly on PS1
    DoDonpachi (Arcade)
    Super Hang-On (Arcade)

    Honorable Mentions:
    Roller Coaster Tycoon (PC), Street Fighter Alpha 2 (Arcade),


    As for Hockey, it's hard because there'd be such a drop-off between each one. 92-94 is all I play today. But I did spend a ton of time with Ice Hockey on NES as a youngster, and NHL 96 as a teen.

  12. Yeah, it's a real shame, because pygame seems like a pretty good introduction for new game programmers. It seems like the owners of the website aren't getting along with the rest of the community, and haven't kept up with the site.

    While Python is a great way to learn programming (it was the first language taught to computer science students when I was in college), the number of resources available for game development are limited. Another idea would just be to go with one of the more powerful lower level languages. A lot of new programmers end up going this route, so it's definitely doable. C++ is probably what most games are written in, but it is known to have a reasonably large learning curve. If you go this route, I'd recommend trying out C#. It would be more than powerful enough for this type of game, and would be a gentler introduction to programming. Also, there are a ton of resources available for learning it, including those aimed specifically at game development. A good number of commercial games have been written in it, so it would still be a good skill to have if you want to pursue other projects.

    All that aside, whether you choose Pygame, C#, commodore basic,.., etc., the biggest thing is to simply start coding! If you get something started, be sure to let us know. I can't commit to making a game from scratch, but I'd love to help out a bit.

    Thanks for the addtional info, Skeletor.

    For the sake of clarity, I don't envision myself personally taking on this project, for the main reason that I know truly F-all about coding, and don't think I have the aptitude for it. I'd love to be involved in a potential project, in some way, though. Not sure how, though.

    EA themselves couldn't figure out the damn "feel". That crappy '94 mode they did a few years ago stunk.

    Yeah, remember there was that press release from someone at EA - or interview or something, around that time? The EA person seemed to have the wrong idea about why it is that 94' maintains it's sort of cult status. IIRC, there was no mention of the physics. They saw it as a "simplicity" in the gameplay thing (which is no doubt partly true), and also, that people's desire to play the 94 style again, was more of a novelty thing. Like, they'll fire it up every so often for a quick game, but really, they prefer playing the recent iterations.

    I think they underestimate both the size of the demographic to which that is definetely NOT the case; and also, I think they lack the vision to see what a game, with the 92-94 'feel', would be like, if it was expanded/built-upon and improved further, and what the audience for such a game would be. I think it would be much larger than just the diehards like us.

    It's so obvious. When 92-94 came out, people who didn't know anything about hockey, still loved the game. That's what made it a huge hit! It sold well in England FFS.

    It's comparable to something like "EA presents: Cricket 2016" becoming a hit in the US. If that happened, you'd know you had a hit on your hands, and that it had little to do with people caring about Cricket.

  13. Thanks hnfoo for finding our doc, Yes the rabbit hole is very deep. I don't want to give to much away at this point but Jim Simmons is a keystone figure that is the most underrated person is video game history and his story will be told.

    Ha. I was going to use that exact phrase, "keystone" in my last post. As in "we need to know who it truly is!"

    But anyway, it's so great that you are doing all this. Just so outstanding. I can't wait to see it, and I totally understand the not wanting to reveal too much, thing.

    All the best.

    Like you, hnfoo, I am very interested in giving credit to the real genius behind this game, and hope Mikey shines a strong light on that. (He did tell me he has it covered, and he has come through with everything else -- like the King of 94 trouney -- so I feel pretty good about it. Mikey is the man!)

    I know a lot more about the situation than I did when I posted in this thread in June. Specifically, I am very confident that it was Jim Simmons that programmed the game in it's entirety -- engine, physics, AI, the whole thing -- up until '94, when Lesser came and added some sugar to what was already a masterpiece.

    While "design" credit is given to many others, Jim Simmons programmed the first EA Genesis Hockey Game, as well as the first EA Genesis Madden game. The guy was like the Amadeus Mozart of videogame programming in the early 90s.

    This is interesting and great to hear, aqua. If you wanted to pm me some of what you've found re: Jim Simmons (so as not to step on Mikey's toes), I would welcome it.

  14. In the past few months that I've been browsing the forum more regularly, whenever I saw this stuff about a documentary, I just ignored it. I just assumed it was some amateurish thing. Didn't realize it was being made by a pro with experience in the industry. This is extremely cool!

    Actually, the reason I finally took the time to figure out what this was all about, was that I was looking into the role of Jim Simmons, but then I learned about all this stuff of Michael Knox, Troy Lyndon and Park Place Prod. The real creators of the original game engine?! I did not know this! And Lyndon was involved in making "Left Behind" video games and got all mixed up in an SEC investigation?! And Park Place made both Madden AND the first few Joe Montana games!?. Mind blown.

    Mr. McBryan, please say you're going to include stuff about whoever it indeed was that made the physics engine. That's the real key. The gravity/momentum stuff.

    I've been reading a ton of retro game related stuff lately, and it seems that a lot of time, entire games where team efforts, unlke now where one person is put in charge of like...making sure everything purple is purple enough, or whatever.

    So who knows, maybe the Park Place people couldn't even say who it was, because it was a bunch of them just tinkering around until things felt right. And Knox has passed. Lyndon is maybe in jail (jk).

  15. I found this reddit post/thread. I haven't read the whole thread, but the OP's post is great. The subject of the post/thread is exactly what we're talking about here. He's thinking just like us, and has some good insights I think. Def. worth a read.:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wiiu/comments/2hdgcp/any_demand_for_an_nhl94style_hockey_game_with/

    Something else...

    I mentioned the Streets of Rage Remake game/project earlier, and I think it's worth expanding on that a bit.

    The people that made it, managed to recreate, exactly, the 'feel' of the original games. Seriously. It feels like it was made by the original creators. Even the graphics are replicated perfectly. And, it was all from scratch, using modern tools (It's a Windows/PC game,btw).

    From SOR Online:

    The game is programmed from scratch in Fenix programming language (which was developed specifically for 2D games development). It does not use reverse engineering nor a single line of code from the original games. It's all based on visual interpretation, and also sports a whole host of special features and upgrades which bring the SOR gameplay experience into the 21st century, without compromising the classic 'feel' of the originals. The game has 18 playable characters, including a fully recreated Adam in SOR2/3 style, new characters 'Rudra' and 'Elle' (Electra) and a host of awesome new music remixes! Mr. X and the Syndicate are back (again!), more powerful than ever! It's time to once again walk the Streets of Rage!

    http://www.soronline.net/sorr_info.htm

  16. I suck at multiquote too...

    All great answers so far, but I think should stress that making a game with a "16-bit" look and feel, would be a lot easier than trying to code something that could run on an actual 16-bit console. The vast majority of the current games with retro styled graphics or pixel art, would not have been coded in assembler.

    A cool thing about PyGame is that you can look at the code for other projects, which might give you some ideas. Unfortunately, their website is atrocious and next to impossible to navigate and find stuff. You might find it easier to just use google to find other projects. Eg.

    site:http://www.pygame.org/ hockey
    

    I was able to find a few sports games this way:

    http://www.pygame.org/tags/sports

    If you want to try out making a game in Python, there are a couple of free books that might help you out here:

    https://inventwithpython.com/

    Also, one piece of advice is to start small! The majority of projects end up being a lot more work than first expected, and don't end up being finished. A better approach is to start with something very simple and slowly adding pieces to it.

    Thanks for this. I'm learning so much.

    I tried finding sports games on that pygame site too. It was confusing. Anyway, a couple of those soccer games look really intriguing.

  17. Yeah, that is what I was thinking, too. You could have the game have 3o "blank" teams, with so-and-so many "blank" players on each, and then let people customize them, and export the data files they create. The beauty would be allowing users to download and share these data files. You could have every imagneable scenario (historic rosters, present day teams and rosters, Olympic squads, etc.) without worrying about intellectual property. I think.

    Uh huh. By having it as a built in feature, and not something that has to be hacked-in, imagine the possibilities. Thousands of teams, colors, configurations, etc. all instantly swappable.

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