smozoma

SNES '94 - 30-team progress

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I started working on hacking SNES NHL'94 to try to expand it to 30+ teams.

Done:

Relocated team/player data to a new bank. This is the data that says what a team's name is, the arena, the players on the team.... This lets you have room to add lots of players to teams, but I haven't yet added additional teams.

Next:

Make Logos editable. So far, this is looking much harder than I expected. The graphics work I did on SNES '93 was quite straight-forward, but this game is using a more sophisticated (and weird) method, and it's not going to be as easy I thought it would be.

So... initial estimates of this hack taking a month are out the window. I have no idea if it's even possible now, but I'll keep plugging away to see if I make an progress...

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Good luck! I have been trying to at least find where the logos (and the pointer table for these logos) are located, but haven't been successful. I think that most would say that the editing logos issue is the toughest one to tackle (due to compression issues) I wonder if working on making 30 teams with banners, uniforms, etc. (possibly with blank logos for the extra teams) would be an intermediary (and easier) step.

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I wonder if working on making 30 teams with banners, uniforms, etc. (possibly with blank logos for the extra teams) would be an intermediary (and easier) step.

Yeah, I need to figure out how the logos work, first. Might be able to reuse the existing logos somehow. But if I get that far, I'll probably have the info necessary to decompress the logos anyway :)

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Good to hear about this hack as I absolutely enjoy playing NHL 94 snes with updated rosters. 30+ teams would rule even if they had to have blank logos, banners, etc.

smozoma, of course I don't know the extent of your hacking abilities, but are there any plans to look into being able to hack in the ability to play games with 4 lines on each team? Granted this may be totally impossible I know, but I just wanted to ask...

No matter what, I think I speak for the snes players in saying that we appreciate both yours and northstar's work very much on the snes hacks. Best of luck with this latest hack and I hope to see it here on the forum within due time! :)

Edited by Oilers442

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Smoz,

Thanks for taking the time to work on this and here's hoping you can find success.

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Good to hear about this hack as I absolutely enjoy playing NHL 94 snes with updated rosters. 30+ teams would rule even if they had to have blank logos, banners, etc.

smozoma, of course I don't know the extent of your hacking abilities, but are there any plans to look into being able to hack in the ability to play games with 4 lines on each team? Granted this may be totally impossible I know, but I just wanted to ask...

No matter what, I think I speak for the snes players in saying that we appreciate both yours and northstar's work very much on the snes hacks. Best of luck with this latest hack and I hope to see it here on the forum within due time! :)

Agreed, this all has been great, awesome job! NHL94 with updated players and team attributes is huge fun. I edited all players myself with someone´s editor. Weirdly satisfying. :P I used to have NHL hockey (I guess it was NHL93) for PC as a kid, and learnt how to edit players in key database. Then Blomman´s editors made things even easier.

How this game would be perfect (but I guess impossible to improve): Like Oilers said, 4 playable lines. For some reason I can´t play regular season, is it playable? That with multiple game injuries would be awesome. First time it was in NHL97 SegaMegadrive and it was hilariously great: I made a huge check on Sakic with Scott Stevens, result: injury, 11 games! >:D There was big difference with who you checked if resulted in multiple game injury or not. Also, to include somekind of statistic viewer for season would rule: goals, assists, points, PIM, +/-, played games. I´d like to help if ever anyone tries these, but there´s not much hacking skills left in my memory I´m afraid. I´m going to try so I´ll find out what I can do.

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Agreed, this all has been great, awesome job! NHL94 with updated players and team attributes is huge fun. I edited all players myself with someone´s editor. Weirdly satisfying. :P I used to have NHL hockey (I guess it was NHL93) for PC as a kid, and learnt how to edit players in key database. Then Blomman´s editors made things even easier.

How this game would be perfect (but I guess impossible to improve): Like Oilers said, 4 playable lines. For some reason I can´t play regular season, is it playable? That with multiple game injuries would be awesome. First time it was in NHL97 SegaMegadrive and it was hilariously great: I made a huge check on Sakic with Scott Stevens, result: injury, 11 games! >:D There was big difference with who you checked if resulted in multiple game injury or not. Also, to include somekind of statistic viewer for season would rule: goals, assists, points, PIM, +/-, played games. I´d like to help if ever anyone tries these, but there´s not much hacking skills left in my memory I´m afraid. I´m going to try so I´ll find out what I can do.

NHL94 did not have seasons. You could play either a single "regular season" game, or the playoffs. Seasons with wins/losses and a scoring race weren't added until '95. It's pretty much impossible to hack seasons into 94.

I don't see 4 lines as being possible to hack in, either (might be possible, but I won't do it)

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How is this project coming along anyways?

Even the ability to simply remove some logos would be a welcome addition.

In any case, thanks for doing this.

Edited by Desired display name

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How is this project coming along anyways?

Even the ability to simply remove some logos would be a welcome addition.

In any case, thanks for doing this.

I'm sorry, I really haven't touched this in ages..

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This is kind of a random thought, but is ASM hacking possible on SNES games?

Granted I know nothing about hacking, ASM, or any of that related stuff, but I've played hack of Super Mario Brothers 3 (NES) that was hacked ASM style and incorporated some features from Super Mario World (SNES) and was basically a brand new game built from scratch using the Super Mario 3 engine. To me, the use of things from Super Mario World indicates that ASM must be possible in some way on the SNES.

Could ASM maybe be a possible solution to add a full season mode in NHL 94 as well as edit logos/banners? Just a thought...

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This is kind of a random thought, but is ASM hacking possible on SNES games?

Granted I know nothing about hacking, ASM, or any of that related stuff, but I've played hack of Super Mario Brothers 3 (NES) that was hacked ASM style and incorporated some features from Super Mario World (SNES) and was basically a brand new game built from scratch using the Super Mario 3 engine. To me, the use of things from Super Mario World indicates that ASM must be possible in some way on the SNES.

Could ASM maybe be a possible solution to add a full season mode in NHL 94 as well as edit logos/banners? Just a thought...

Yes, ASM hacking is what I'm doing for expanding the number of teams, and removing the graphics compression (so you can edit the graphics right in the ROM).

It's POSSIBLE to add seasons to the game through ASM hacking (as anything is possible with ASM, within the limits of the hardware), but not realistically possible with the ASM hackers we have here (i.e... me)

It took me a week solid of work (so.. 80 hours?) to expand NHLPA'93 to 64 teams, but 94 is more complicated (the graphics mainly). And that's just working with the code that's already there, not writing entirely new code and shoehorning it into the game. Plus in the Mario scene they probably have some guys who probably do/did ASM stuff for a living.. while I took 2 classes in it in school :D

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Oilers442 - just noticed your sig....might be the best sig on the site.

R E S P E C T - My SNES NHL 94 Code (aka the 5 commandments of NHL 94)

1. I will respect my opponents no matter if I win or lose by a narrow or large margin.

2. I will take pride in my victories but not be outspoken about them.

3. I will be disappointed with losing but will never call out my opponent or make excuses.

4. I will remember that there is no such thing as "cheap moves" or "cheaters".

5. I will honor my opponent and offer my congratulations on a good game under all circumstances and with no exceptions.

could not have been written better.

sorry to hijack smoz

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Smoz - You might be right about the Super Mario guys. Some of them just might do that for a living judging by what they've done with the Mario games, lol. Also, I'm sure some of it is because the Super Mario series is likely the most hacked of all the old school games and hence why there is so much more knowledge about exactly how the graphics, engine, and such can be built, modified, or changed at will.

Cool to know that you are using ASM though. Like I said before, we SNES guys appreciate what you are trying to do very much and hope to see something great arise from the hard work you are putting in! :)

Halifax - Thank you very much. I got inspired to write it after about 50-80 exhibition games online in March over my spring break week. Everyone I have ever played against online (except one player who shall remain nameless) has always extended "GG" after each game, complimented my scoring plays, and generally been great people to interact with and play games against regardless of who wins, what the score is, etc. In some ways, their show of respect felt like something of an unwritten code for NHL 94 players and one that I not only wished to follow, but one that I also wanted to put forth in writing and maybe inspire new players to do the same as well...Just glad to see that it is appreciated by forum veterans like yourself.

Btw, I like your sig as well. That is a heck of a dream that I hope can one day be a reality as well! :)

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I've been thinking a bit about this recently, and I've realized another issue with trying to . We know about the team data/logo situation, but how about palettes and pointers (banner text/center ice logos/portraits/etc). Obviously when they made this game, for example, they only allotted enough space in the pointer tables for twenty-eight teams. We would probably have to overhaul the organization of the ROM and how it reads pointer tables to allow for two extra teams. Perhaps the GENS community came across this issue when they expanded to thirty teams, too (maybe they have some suggestions?)

BTW, it does seem that the logos in the main menu are referenced by a single pointer with offset (definitely not by a pointer table). I tried (in vain) to force the game to have thirty teams selectable in the main menu. Once I got past the last team, the game broke, but I noticed that the logo shown for the team was the NHL shield seen in the new playoffs option (the next one was the NHLPA logo).

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I've been thinking a bit about this recently, and I've realized another issue with trying to . We know about the team data/logo situation, but how about palettes and pointers (banner text/center ice logos/portraits/etc). Obviously when they made this game, for example, they only allotted enough space in the pointer tables for twenty-eight teams. We would probably have to overhaul the organization of the ROM and how it reads pointer tables to allow for two extra teams. Perhaps the GENS community came across this issue when they expanded to thirty teams, too (maybe they have some suggestions?)

BTW, it does seem that the logos in the main menu are referenced by a single pointer with offset (definitely not by a pointer table). I tried (in vain) to force the game to have thirty teams selectable in the main menu. Once I got past the last team, the game broke, but I noticed that the logo shown for the team was the NHL shield seen in the new playoffs option (the next one was the NHLPA logo).

To make the 64-team SNES rom, i transplanted the team pointer list into a new memory bank and changed the bank number and pointer that referenced it (as well as the number of teams value). The same would have be done for any list that didn't have room to expand in its original location.

Essentially, a pointer table/list is 'data' (not code). Data that needs to expand and doesn't have room to expand in it's original location must be moved to a new bank in the expanded ROM. Team rosters, logos, etc.

(I still need to answer your PM some time, sorry for the delay. short of it: without first solving the logo problem, i don't see much value in moving the player data to an expanded bank (which would break compatibility with statto's editor, anyway))

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To make the 64-team SNES rom, i transplanted the team pointer list into a new memory bank and changed the bank number and pointer that referenced it (as well as the number of teams value). The same would have be done for any list that didn't have room to expand in its original location.

Essentially, a pointer table/list is 'data' (not code). Data that needs to expand and doesn't have room to expand in it's original location must be moved to a new bank in the expanded ROM. Team rosters, logos, etc.

(I still need to answer your PM some time, sorry for the delay. short of it: without first solving the logo problem, i don't see much value in moving the player data to an expanded bank (which would break compatibility with statto's editor, anyway))

I knew the pointer table was data; I just wanted to bring it to people's attention that there's more to a 30-team ROM than just the logos and player data.

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anybody have any friends that might take pride in assisting with this quest? we didn't have a lot of interest generated on the boards at romhacking.net, but it may be time to revisit the idea there. I am not knowledgeable enough to guide the progress, were there to be any, so I don't feel like an adequate representative. still dreaming. much love.

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bumped for the dream.

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Have you tried viewing the logos in 3pp format in tile layer pro? That's how we edit compressed city names in tecmo for SNES. If you know where the palettes are you can even change the colors.

Edited by tjans

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I don't see them. feel free to figure it out!

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