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Thanks guys. What I don't get is how the checker has to be at least 2 points heavier than the guy in order to successfully check him. Does that mean that for example, Cam Neely usually can't check Kirk Muller despite being heavier than him, even when using this C/B check? That seems strange.

I find that in SNES, even light guys are able to check heavy guys under the right circumstances (speed, timing and checking angle seem to matter).

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I couldn't follow all the code involved in checking, but it starts with subtracting one players weight index (0-16 number) times 10 from the other guy's, then doing some 'magic' before finally deciding if the check is successful. The way it turns out, basically (normal C check, weight bug), you have to weigh 2 points less than a guy to check him ~100% of the time. If you only weigh 1 point less, the check succeeds less consistently, same weigh even less consistent, etc etc.

For the CB check, it might work a bit differently, because the CB check is caused by some code that basically said "if you control the player (or maybe it was if you don't control the player?), start the calculation with a value of 120". Maybe that code is just there so that when the CPU throws a check, it is guaranteed to work. So I wonder if the CB check will pretty much always work, regardless of the weights of the players involved? Has anyone noticed CB checks failing?

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I couldn't follow all the code involved in checking, but it starts with subtracting one players weight index (0-16 number) times 10 from the other guy's, then doing some 'magic' before finally deciding if the check is successful. The way it turns out, basically (normal C check, weight bug), you have to weigh 2 points less than a guy to check him ~100% of the time. If you only weigh 1 point less, the check succeeds less consistently, same weigh even less consistent, etc etc.

For the CB check, it might work a bit differently, because the CB check is caused by some code that basically said "if you control the player (or maybe it was if you don't control the player?), start the calculation with a value of 120". Maybe that code is just there so that when the CPU throws a check, it is guaranteed to work. So I wonder if the CB check will pretty much always work, regardless of the weights of the players involved? Has anyone noticed CB checks failing?

I've been playing a lot of games against the computer the last month and I've been doing some testing with CB checking. I think the game does use a slightly different value to calculate whether a check will be successful. It seems trying to CB a heavier player with a lighter one works more consistently then trying to C check a lighter player with a heavier one. Still, CBing a heavy player with a light guy isn't anywhere near as consistent as using it with a heavier player to hit a lighter one.

Thanks guys. What I don't get is how the checker has to be at least 2 points heavier than the guy in order to successfully check him. Does that mean that for example, Cam Neely usually can't check Kirk Muller despite being heavier than him, even when using this C/B check? That seems strange.

I find that in SNES, even light guys are able to check heavy guys under the right circumstances (speed, timing and checking angle seem to matter).

Yes, it is true that Cam Neely has a tougher time checking Kirk Muller with a CB check than he would Brian Bellows. In Gens the game doesn't weigh speed as heavily as the SNES does so it is much trickier to overcome weight differences.

Speed and agility only really come into factor if a player can mathematically check a player consistently to begin with. This is why Al Iafrate is a better CB checker then Dave Andreychuk despite having the same weight attribute.

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Playing against Seth a bunch, I tend to think CB checking works a lot more when guys are equal weights than regular C. And similarly when the weights are 1 point apart, in either direction!

After I clone myself, this is something I'd love to test. Do 100 checks and 100 CB checks with players of same weight, 1 weight different, 2 weight different, 3 weight...and tally the results.

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Yes, it is true that Cam Neely has a tougher time checking Kirk Muller with a CB check than he would Brian Bellows. In Gens the game doesn't weigh speed as heavily as the SNES does so it is much trickier to overcome weight differences.

Speed and agility only really come into factor if a player can mathematically check a player consistently to begin with. This is why Al Iafrate is a better CB checker then Dave Andreychuk despite having the same weight attribute.

Cool, thanks. I like that the speed of the checker weighs in a bit more in SNES. So a small, light guy like Gilmour or Fleury generally gets pushed around, but can still run over a heavy player if he builds up enough speed and hits him at the right time. But I don't want to turn this into another console debate.

The point, is, great work AJ, keep up the good work.

Edited by Bob Kudelski
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You can't use B to switch your player in 2on2 unless your teammate is stuck on goalie lock, though. Wouldn't that mean you can't do it?

Ahh good point. Not a lot of use in that case.

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  • 4 years later...

AJ...you pretty much wrote the NHL 94 Bible in terms of who to play with using each team.  Along with your YouTube videos, these gotta be the greatest resource on NHL 94 for Genesis.  I compiled all these team rankings, player lines, etc... into what is now one of my favorite "books." Many thanks @angryjay93 and to @kingraph @smozoma and @CoachMac for the excel sheets on each team.      My 11 year old and 8 year old...daughters by the way...want me to make them a copy of their own.  

Not sure if you're working on an NHL 94 project now, but I do have a suggestion that has been done to various degrees by some of the greats...but maybe not to the full extent like you did with each team and player breakdown.  Have you ever considered breaking down each way to score in NHL 94?  

I've seen some normal one timer videos and pass shot videos on YouTube which are nice, but then I've seen you pull out some barely avoid hitting the post from behind the net one timers on Twitch that I've never even thought of trying before.  Then I've always felt a left-handed player on a breakaway doesn't seem to have the same options and a right-handed player.   Is breaking down the basic to expert level scoring options a thing you might consider making?  (Taking into account the type of shooter and ranking the probability of success for each type)

Not trying to steal ur moves...just trying to steal yo moves.  

 

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1 hour ago, Nhl94slapshot said:

...

IMG_20200829_175350401.jpg

That is some Gamefaqs.com stuff right there. I probably printed 500 pages of video game guides back in the day. None of what I printed out back then comes close to that masterpiece. 

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On 8/29/2020 at 4:19 PM, Nhl94slapshot said:

AJ...you pretty much wrote the NHL 94 Bible in terms of who to play with using each team.  Along with your YouTube videos, these gotta be the greatest resource on NHL 94 for Genesis.  I compiled all these team rankings, player lines, etc... into what is now one of my favorite "books." Many thanks @angryjay93 and to @kingraph @smozoma and @CoachMac for the excel sheets on each team.      My 11 year old and 8 year old...daughters by the way...want me to make them a copy of their own.  

Not sure if you're working on an NHL 94 project now, but I do have a suggestion that has been done to various degrees by some of the greats...but maybe not to the full extent like you did with each team and player breakdown.  Have you ever considered breaking down each way to score in NHL 94?  

I've seen some normal one timer videos and pass shot videos on YouTube which are nice, but then I've seen you pull out some barely avoid hitting the post from behind the net one timers on Twitch that I've never even thought of trying before.  Then I've always felt a left-handed player on a breakaway doesn't seem to have the same options and a right-handed player.   Is breaking down the basic to expert level scoring options a thing you might consider making?  (Taking into account the type of shooter and ranking the probability of success for each type)

Not trying to steal ur moves...just trying to steal yo moves.  

Well I have officially written the book because you have published me bud! This is a big day, I'll be looking for those royalty checks in the mail.

When I started doing this oh so long ago, the hope was that people would be able to pick up a few pointers or tips to help them out. I never imagined guys bringing massive printouts to tournaments or producing books with articles that I have penned. Seeing those sorts of things make it all worth it and I wish I've been able to do more as I have had long periods of inactivity. 

With that said, I have just recently moved to a place with a ton more space for me to actually build a dedicated area space for gaming/recording. Once I get settled I would like to focus on finishing the team breakdowns (Smythe Division) and then I can focus on a project like goal scoring methods. My video editing techniques are non existent at this stage but maybe I can do something a bit more organic if my old man brain cant figure out some basic editing.

I greatly appreciate you sharing the pictures and what you hope to see me work on. If you or anyone else has any suggestion of what they would like to see from me, please feel free to leave it in the thread. I'm more than happy to read over them and add them to my to do list.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This one might sound odd....

In these pieces, which are well written and give a good overview of what line combinations work and why, you mention different strategy types. Could you maybe expand on each of the strategies? I think we all get what 'puck possession' means, but what attributes are best for those players who want to use that strategy with every team? Which teams are best suited for that strategy? One-timers, counter-attacking, aggressive fore checking, all of these can be strategies that have success but what attributes from individual players best suit those strats?

It's a big ask, but also allows for a deeper, more nuanced understanding of what you have already written. 

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