wboy

Player Ratings 101 Tutorial

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Well after some considerable analysis of NHL94 and later rom years (admittedly made a hell of a lot easier using the upcoming editor to test values :)), I think I've worked out how ingame displayed ratings work in reference to the Hex 0-6 scaling first used in NHL94, reverting from the original Hex 0-F scales used by NHL93 and earlier roms.

I tested this by setting an entire team's players to the same rating... e.g. first all 0's, check the ingame ratings... then change to all 1's... check ingame rating, repeat... etc until Hex 6 reached.

Interesting, while all players where in theory the same, they did all potentially show some mild variances in their attribute ratings. These are not always consistent either! A player's overall and individal attributes rating may be "what you expect" for your first game, the higher for the next, then back to "what you expect"/got first game, then lower the following game?!?!

To prove this, take the original NHL94 rom. Play a regular game with DETROIT. Before the game starts, go to the team roster and check the starting line's player overall ratings. With some luck, they will match the documented overall ratings as found in the roster section (off the main site) of Evan's NHL94 website. Reset the rom, choose the exact same teams/settings again. Check the roster, and now, the overall rating for the players will most likey be different than before. Reset again, and with some luck, yet another new rating for the same players.

It doesn't appear to be completely random. Its as if there is three or four different typical scenarios that you will recieve. Every time you get the same scenario (testing with the same teams), you should also find that it is the same HOT or COLD players. Within the team roster, each player's overall and individual attributes talents will be exact as of the previous time you noticed you've had the same scenario. A predefined random possibly?

So why is this, and how come a whole team of players with the same hex attributes can have what appears to be quite different scalings in the same rating?

I have a theory that *may* be somewhat right, but for now what I can quite accurately tell you is this. Dependant on the hex rating of a attribute, the following info will give you general indication of what ingame attribute rating you could possibly expect for that player.

Hex 0, attribute rating will always range from 25 to 29 (maximum difference of 4)

Hex 1, attribute rating will always range from 29 to 38 (maximum difference of 9)

Hex 2, attribute rating will always range from 38 to 47 (maximum difference of 9)

Hex 3, attribute rating will always range from 47 to 62 (maximum difference of 15)

Hex 4, attribute rating will always range from 63 to 80 (maximum difference of 17)

Hex 5, attribute rating will always range from 81 to 98 (maximum difference of 17)

Hex 6, attribute rating will always be 99 (no possible difference)

From this I had the idea that the game possibly uses the Hex 0-6 rating to dynamically assign Hex 0 -F to the players based on potential ranges of the rating scale shown above. This could be done in attempt to simulate players having good (hot) or bad (cold) days and thus potentially creating a more random game.

Interestingly NHL95 appears to go by these exact ratings except for the Stick Handling, which is different to NHL94, as it supports Hex 0-F.

Checking the ranges of the assigned hex values of the Stick Handling attribute show this:

Hex 0, attribute rating will always range from 25 to 29

Hex 1, 2, attribute rating will always range from 29 to 38

Hex 3, 4, 5, attribute rating will always range from 38 to 47

Hex 6, 7, 8, attribute rating will always range from 47 to 62

Hex 9, A, B, attribute rating will always range from 63 to 80

Hex C, D, E, attribute rating will always range from 81 to 98

Hex F, attribute rating will always be 99

While I originally thought this confirmed my theory, unfortunately the ingame displayed ratings didn't seem to match the finding. By that I mean with the stick handling attribute set to Hex E for all players, I expected all the ratings to be within 92 and 98... the top third values of the range expected for Hex E. Unforunately that was not the case, as values ranged from 81 to 98. Either the displayed value may display wrong (highly unlikey), or doesn't make a difference at all if its Hex C, D or E.

Going back to NHL94, this may mean that a Hex 5 is a Hex 5, irrespective if the players is Hot and rated 98, verus the other who is Cold, and rated 81 for the same attribute. One attribute that could possible test this theory would be SPEED. If both players are the effectively same, are at different ends of the Hex 5 scale (e.g. hot-98, cold-81), but are as fast as each other ingame, then the whole Hot/Cold rating difference is really more of a misleading attempt by EA to make the game appear more complex that it is?

I'll look at hacking a rom soon that could test this theory, and I'll let you know when its done so I few people can test it and give me their thoughts/findings.

Doing similar tests with 96, I vaguely remember a scenario where the same "cold" player rated higher than the same opposings teams equivalent player who was normal. Mind you, I will check that again to confirm. If that is the case, the hot/cold rating may really mean noting ingame. Time will hopefully tell.

The end.

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wboy is like our very own professor frink from the simpsons. :)

Im glad someone has the patience to do all this. I started out with the same curiosity but burned out quickly.

Long live wboy!

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wboy is like our very own professor frink from the simpsons.  :P

Well... okay... I guess I'll take that as I compliment!! :P

Trust me when I say such testing didn't take that long with the aid of the editor.

Like yourself or any other sane person, trying to do arrange data to produce valid results for such tests with only a hex editor would not only burn you out, but probably make your brain physically explode!!! :)

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Well... okay... I guess I'll take that as I compliment!! :P

Trust me when I say such testing didn't take that long with the aid of the editor.

Like yourself or any other sane person, trying to do arrange data to produce valid results for such tests with only a hex editor would not only burn you out, but probably make your brain physically explode!!!  :)

Ah ha. So that's what happened to me. :P

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wboy is like our very own professor frink from the simpsons.  :)

Im glad someone has the patience to do all this.  I started out with the same curiosity but burned out quickly. 

Long live wboy!

Professor Frink, Professor Frink, he'll make you laugh, he'll make you think

He likes to run, and then the thing, with the mmm person...

Oh boy, that monkey is going to pay.

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I just was playing around with NOSE with NHL 95 and looked at ratings and was amazed and how they seemed different from the cartridge (which I normally play) and then went to this site to find more info on it. Bumping this interesting thread from a long time ago. Any more understanding to this since 2005? Any other threads explain more about ratings?

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ratings are pretty straight forward i think.

what more do you want to know about them?

Edited by shaftman

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Well I looked at nose again and must of been crosseyed, I thought I saw more attributes with letter ratings.

I guess my qustion is what wboy posed, if a guy is rated 5 in hex, is his speed different in the game if he's hot (98) or cold(81) or is it the same speed and EA is making it more complex.

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Well I looked at nose again and must of been crosseyed, I thought I saw more attributes with letter ratings.

I guess my qustion is what wboy posed, if a guy is rated 5 in hex, is his speed different in the game if he's hot (98) or cold(81) or is it the same speed and EA is making it more complex.

I have found that *some* of the ratings get random modifiers in the game. However they did not seem to match the numbers you'd see in the Team Rosters and Edit Lines player attributes list.

So, even though 2 players might have identical attributes in the ROM, and the Edit Lines may show that one of them is a bit faster than the other (98 vs 81, for example), it could actually be the 81 guy who is a bit faster than the 98 guy in that particular game.

Buuut I'm not 100% sure my interpretation was correct. So I could be wrong.

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yeah could be right. sometimes it seems like some guys are a bit faster then others for no reason

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I have found that *some* of the ratings get random modifiers in the game. However they did not seem to match the numbers you'd see in the Team Rosters and Edit Lines player attributes list.

So, even though 2 players might have identical attributes in the ROM, and the Edit Lines may show that one of them is a bit faster than the other (98 vs 81, for example), it could actually be the 81 guy who is a bit faster than the 98 guy in that particular game.

Buuut I'm not 100% sure my interpretation was correct. So I could be wrong.

I'm convinced that the ratings you see when you edit the lines are wrong. Their exact rating in say shot power, is somewhere within their given range; aka a 5 shot power is still a 5 shot power. But the number that it displays doesn't match to what happens in the game.

I've tested it out for 4 shot power guys. If you watch what happens when you hold the shoot button as long as you can, the players who are over a certain rating number fully extend their hands behind their head as they're loading up for a shot. For example, a 5 shot power guy will always fully extend no matter; a 3 shot power guy will never fully extend his hands; a 4 shot power guy will sometimes fully extend and sometimes not. The ratings range of the 4 shot power guy must fluctuate around whatever the cut off line is for that slapshot animation. An extended slapshot is a harder slapshot, and the player must have a higher rating to do that.

The problem is that when you look at their in game ratings through editing your lines, the number it shows never matches up with the player's actual shot power, judging by that arm extension. A 4 shot power guy might have an 83 shot power rating when you check, but he won't be extending his hands on his slapshot. Conversely that same guy might have a 66 rating when you check on a different game, but he is extending his hands and shooting harder. So the in-game numbers must not match up with their actual rating.

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I'm convinced that the ratings you see when you edit the lines are wrong. Their exact rating in say shot power, is somewhere within their given range; aka a 5 shot power is still a 5 shot power. But the number that it displays doesn't match to what happens in the game.

I've tested it out for 4 shot power guys. If you watch what happens when you hold the shoot button as long as you can, the players who are over a certain rating number fully extend their hands behind their head as they're loading up for a shot. For example, a 5 shot power guy will always fully extend no matter; a 3 shot power guy will never fully extend his hands; a 4 shot power guy will sometimes fully extend and sometimes not. The ratings range of the 4 shot power guy must fluctuate around whatever the cut off line is for that slapshot animation. An extended slapshot is a harder slapshot, and the player must have a higher rating to do that.

The problem is that when you look at their in game ratings through editing your lines, the number it shows never matches up with the player's actual shot power, judging by that arm extension. A 4 shot power guy might have an 83 shot power rating when you check, but he won't be extending his hands on his slapshot. Conversely that same guy might have a 66 rating when you check on a different game, but he is extending his hands and shooting harder. So the in-game numbers must not match up with their actual rating.

Cool, I never noticed that animation detail.

So I wonder... maybe the Edit Lines and Team Roster screens just have the bonus backwards? I.e. when in the actual game a guy has a bonus, the Team Roster/Edit Lines screen will show him as lower than normal. The same sort of mistake caused the whole weight bug, so it's not that unlikely!

Edited by smozoma

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Cool, I never noticed that animation detail.

So I wonder... maybe the Edit Lines and Team Roster screens just have the bonus backwards? I.e. when in the actual game a guy has a bonus, the Team Roster/Edit Lines screen will show him as lower than normal. The same sort of mistake caused the whole weight bug, so it's not that unlikely!

I'd be interested in hearing any explanation for it. But off what I remember from testing, it isn't consistently up-side-down. I think the in-game numbers are likely pure fluff.

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I know this is an old topic, but I actually have a theory on why somebody with 4 shot power sometimes winds up and sometimes doesn't. I've noticed that if two players have an in-game shot power rating of - for example - 68, the player that has a lower stick-handling rating usually doesn't do the full windup; the other player (who has a much higher stick-handling rating) does the full windup! If I am not mistaken, a player's weight also affects it as well (lighter players shoot harder in the original and heavier players shoot harder with the weight bug fix).

Some examples, just so you have a visual idea...

With weight bug fix (so heavier players hit harder)

Scott Hartnell:

212 lbs

66 shot power

47-62 stickhandling

If Hartnell's stick handling is on the low end, he might not do the full windup at all. In fact, he may or may not do the full windup if his stickhandling is at 62.

If you make his stickhandling in the 63-80 range, then he will probably do the full windup more often than not. If you give him 81-98 stickhandling, then I think his heavy weight and high stick-handling will make him almost always do the full windup, even with his shot power at a lowly 66 or so (it would have to be at least near 70, if not over it).

I don't think the numbers are exactly lying to you in-game when you read their shot power. I think how hard the player actually shoots is affected by his weight, his shot power rating, AND his stickhandling rating. Go experiment and see for yourselves.

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I know this is an old topic, but I actually have a theory on why somebody with 4 shot power sometimes winds up and sometimes doesn't. I've noticed that if two players have an in-game shot power rating of - for example - 68, the player that has a lower stick-handling rating usually doesn't do the full windup; the other player (who has a much higher stick-handling rating) does the full windup! If I am not mistaken, a player's weight also affects it as well (lighter players shoot harder in the original and heavier players shoot harder with the weight bug fix).

Some examples, just so you have a visual idea...

With weight bug fix (so heavier players hit harder)

Scott Hartnell:

212 lbs

66 shot power

47-62 stickhandling

If Hartnell's stick handling is on the low end, he might not do the full windup at all. In fact, he may or may not do the full windup if his stickhandling is at 62.

If you make his stickhandling in the 63-80 range, then he will probably do the full windup more often than not. If you give him 81-98 stickhandling, then I think his heavy weight and high stick-handling will make him almost always do the full windup, even with his shot power at a lowly 66 or so (it would have to be at least near 70, if not over it).

I don't think the numbers are exactly lying to you in-game when you read their shot power. I think how hard the player actually shoots is affected by his weight, his shot power rating, AND his stickhandling rating. Go experiment and see for yourselves.

The ratings you see in Edit Lines are wrong, so you can't conclude anything from them! :D

Weight and stick handling won't affect shot power. It has to do with if the ACTUAL shot power rating is up or down that game.

You can download a program in this other thread that will fix the issue, so the ratings you see match the actual ratings.

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I've tested it out for 4 shot power guys. If you watch what happens when you hold the shoot button as long as you can, the players who are over a certain rating number fully extend their hands behind their head as they're loading up for a shot. For example, a 5 shot power guy will always fully extend no matter; a 3 shot power guy will never fully extend his hands; a 4 shot power guy will sometimes fully extend and sometimes not. The ratings range of the 4 shot power guy must fluctuate around whatever the cut off line is for that slapshot animation. An extended slapshot is a harder slapshot, and the player must have a higher rating to do that.

Both Evgeny Davydov's shot (4/4) -- left is when he is boosted shot power (you can see the high stick animation), right is not. I think the threshold is around 68 or so. Cool find!

BJAX1Z3.gif

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oh, man... I love that. animations like that are excellent tools to help people understand these types of things. thanks for making that!

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Great post kingraph

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On 9/11/2005 at 9:33 AM, wboy said:

Well after some considerable analysis of NHL94 and later rom years (admittedly made a hell of a lot easier using the upcoming editor to test values :)), I think I've worked out how ingame displayed ratings work in reference to the Hex 0-6 scaling first used in NHL94, reverting from the original Hex 0-F scales used by NHL93 and earlier roms.

I tested this by setting an entire team's players to the same rating... e.g. first all 0's, check the ingame ratings... then change to all 1's... check ingame rating, repeat... etc until Hex 6 reached.

Interesting, while all players where in theory the same, they did all potentially show some mild variances in their attribute ratings. These are not always consistent either! A player's overall and individal attributes rating may be "what you expect" for your first game, the higher for the next, then back to "what you expect"/got first game, then lower the following game?!?!

To prove this, take the original NHL94 rom. Play a regular game with DETROIT. Before the game starts, go to the team roster and check the starting line's player overall ratings. With some luck, they will match the documented overall ratings as found in the roster section (off the main site) of Evan's NHL94 website. Reset the rom, choose the exact same teams/settings again. Check the roster, and now, the overall rating for the players will most likey be different than before. Reset again, and with some luck, yet another new rating for the same players.

It doesn't appear to be completely random. Its as if there is three or four different typical scenarios that you will recieve. Every time you get the same scenario (testing with the same teams), you should also find that it is the same HOT or COLD players. Within the team roster, each player's overall and individual attributes talents will be exact as of the previous time you noticed you've had the same scenario. A predefined random possibly?

So why is this, and how come a whole team of players with the same hex attributes can have what appears to be quite different scalings in the same rating?

I have a theory that *may* be somewhat right, but for now what I can quite accurately tell you is this. Dependant on the hex rating of a attribute, the following info will give you general indication of what ingame attribute rating you could possibly expect for that player.

Hex 0, attribute rating will always range from 25 to 29 (maximum difference of 4)

Hex 1, attribute rating will always range from 29 to 38 (maximum difference of 9)

Hex 2, attribute rating will always range from 38 to 47 (maximum difference of 9)

Hex 3, attribute rating will always range from 47 to 62 (maximum difference of 15)

Hex 4, attribute rating will always range from 63 to 80 (maximum difference of 17)

Hex 5, attribute rating will always range from 81 to 98 (maximum difference of 17)

Hex 6, attribute rating will always be 99 (no possible difference)

From this I had the idea that the game possibly uses the Hex 0-6 rating to dynamically assign Hex 0 -F to the players based on potential ranges of the rating scale shown above. This could be done in attempt to simulate players having good (hot) or bad (cold) days and thus potentially creating a more random game.

Interestingly NHL95 appears to go by these exact ratings except for the Stick Handling, which is different to NHL94, as it supports Hex 0-F.

Checking the ranges of the assigned hex values of the Stick Handling attribute show this:

Hex 0, attribute rating will always range from 25 to 29

Hex 1, 2, attribute rating will always range from 29 to 38

Hex 3, 4, 5, attribute rating will always range from 38 to 47

Hex 6, 7, 8, attribute rating will always range from 47 to 62

Hex 9, A, B, attribute rating will always range from 63 to 80

Hex C, D, E, attribute rating will always range from 81 to 98

Hex F, attribute rating will always be 99

While I originally thought this confirmed my theory, unfortunately the ingame displayed ratings didn't seem to match the finding. By that I mean with the stick handling attribute set to Hex E for all players, I expected all the ratings to be within 92 and 98... the top third values of the range expected for Hex E. Unforunately that was not the case, as values ranged from 81 to 98. Either the displayed value may display wrong (highly unlikey), or doesn't make a difference at all if its Hex C, D or E.

Going back to NHL94, this may mean that a Hex 5 is a Hex 5, irrespective if the players is Hot and rated 98, verus the other who is Cold, and rated 81 for the same attribute. One attribute that could possible test this theory would be SPEED. If both players are the effectively same, are at different ends of the Hex 5 scale (e.g. hot-98, cold-81), but are as fast as each other ingame, then the whole Hot/Cold rating difference is really more of a misleading attempt by EA to make the game appear more complex that it is?

I'll look at hacking a rom soon that could test this theory, and I'll let you know when its done so I few people can test it and give me their thoughts/findings.

Doing similar tests with 96, I vaguely remember a scenario where the same "cold" player rated higher than the same opposings teams equivalent player who was normal. Mind you, I will check that again to confirm. If that is the case, the hot/cold rating may really mean noting ingame. Time will hopefully tell.

The end.

Bumping this Oldie 

So In NHL 95, Stick Handling ratings are different instead of 0-6 HEX they are  0-F.  Wondering why they would of done that?  One thing I noticed is Jeremy Roenick has the highest Hex Rating of "D" the next highest rating is "A" for players.  But both D and A are rated as a 81-98 rating in NOSE

Maybe they made him just a tad bit better than everyone else.

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