Bo Knows NHL94

SNES vs Genesis Penalty Shots

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When it comes to the penalty shots, there are two fairly major bugs in the SNES version. (Can't wait to see how trudatman spins them into features!) Anyways, here they are:

1. When a player is hit or hooked on a breakaway and earns a penalty shot, but then takes a penalty himself (most commonly for brushing up against the goalie and getting an interference penalty, which is WAY too touchy and common in the SNES version) then that player who earned the penalty shot is sent to the box. Another player comes out to take the penalty shot. Then, as soon as the new player is ready to take the penalty shot, the puck zips over to the right side of the screen, like the puck is a magnet apparently attracted to the guy in the box. The puck can not be played and after a short while the whistle blows and the penalty shot is wasted.

2. When playing a game with penalties off, the refs still call penalty shots. No other penalties occur, but apparently they forgot that penalty shots result from penalties, which were supposed to be turned off.

To be fair, the SNES version does do a good thing with the short pause before the penalty shot starts. Any experienced Genesis player has probably had a penalty shot sneak up on him and wasted the opportunity by hitting B prematurely expecting the face-off. The result is accidentally having your player pass the puck down towards the goalie harmlessly. The small pause in the SNES version is great because the buttons don't do anything as it announces the penalty shot, says who will be taking the shot and for what penalty which gives both sides a chance to be ready. No hitting B on accident and wasting the chance.

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Hate accidentally hitting B while expecting a faceoff.

Found this trick for Genesis penalty shots:

When a penalty shot is called, switch your goalies. Or maybe it was pull the goalie and put him back in, i forget. Anyway, when the player shoots, if he scores, it'll go through the net and through the boards.

Something I notice sometimes in Genesis is the centreman takes the shot even though someone else was fouled.

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Hate accidentally hitting B while expecting a faceoff.

Found this trick for Genesis penalty shots:

When a penalty shot is called, switch your goalies. Or maybe it was pull the goalie and put him back in, i forget. Anyway, when the player shoots, if he scores, it'll go through the net and through the boards.

Something I notice sometimes in Genesis is the centreman takes the shot even though someone else was fouled.

If I may ask, does scoring or missing a goal count for a power play? I have seen at times when someone takes a penalty shot, the PP timer goes away and the guy is back on the ice! :blink: This is only in SNES, though.

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What happened to the other topics in the BoKnows everything forum???

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What happened to the other topics in the BoKnows everything forum???

trudatman

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I've noticed sometimes that if the other team misses the penalty shot, I will still have a player go to the penalty box for a 2 min pp. Is this a glitch or did I take two penalties on the play? (I've seen this happen a few times when I didn't think I took two penalties.)

Edited by Wittgenstein

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What happened to the other topics in the BoKnows everything forum???

it is set up to only show posts from "today." you need to reveal the display options and choose another period from which you want the list generated. seems like an error, to me.

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it is set up to only show posts from "today." you need to reveal the display options and choose another period from which you want the list generated. seems like an error, to me.

YES! Thank you!

Not sure why that is set like that, but in case anybody else has that problem, here's a screenshot of what trudatman described:

boknows1.png

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Wow good sleuthing trudatman.

So this happened to just this forum somehow? A mod's mouse went nuts?

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no problem, guys. now fix it, silly moderators!

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I was on youtube watching some 94 things and saw this... I forgot I even uploaded it forever ago with some old account I don't even use anymore!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FVkMhlBA1cc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Anybody ever knocked the net off in SNES during a penalty shot/shoot out? It seems like the net tends to come off a little easier in SNES so I wouldn't be suprised if it's happened before.

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please explain what is happening in that video. I am pretty sure that whatever it is does not occur with the SNES, but I am curious.

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I knocked the net off while doing a penalty shot (in shoot out mode) vs the computer and the whistle didn't blow. I've never seen the net come off in a penalty shot on SNES. Maybe I'll play some shootout mode and intentionally try to knock the net off a few times and see if I can score in the floating net.

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I've noticed sometimes that if the other team misses the penalty shot, I will still have a player go to the penalty box for a 2 min pp. Is this a glitch or did I take two penalties on the play? (I've seen this happen a few times when I didn't think I took two penalties.)

I think it is a glitch of sorts. The refs seem to give a penalty for pretty much any contact made on a player after he crosses the blue line with the and there are no defenders in the defensive zone. You hear the beep signaling a breakaway when this happens. But sometimes when you hit the player on a breakaway the refs would have called a penalty on the play even if he wasn't on a breakaway. In that case, you go to the box plus he gets a penalty shot. You don't always get a penalty shot when you hit a guy on a breakaway... but I'd say it's probably like 90% of the time. The % of time you get a regular penalty (like charging or roughing) for a hit on a player is much lower, but it depends on the player's aggressiveness. (higher aggressiveness = more likely to have penalties called)

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(higher aggressiveness = more likely to have penalties called)

I didn't know this...is this true? I tried using the Blitz stats to see if I could find what caused some players to get more penalties than others. I may have to revisit that now...

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When you do the test, try isolating it by position. Coaches will use defenders and forwards differently, so that'll mess up the results.

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isn't that the entirety of what the aggression (I call it "reputation") stat does? maybe it also makes the player chase harder, but I think it's just how likely they are to be penalized.

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I don't know, I've looked at it before as well and I don't think there was a smoking gun as to what it actually did -- no obvious correlation to PIM. If I had to guess, I agree it's more about chasing the puck or positioning than drawing penalties. Maybe those D that hang back around the goalie have low aggression, while the ones that get caught up ice a lot have high aggression.

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Hmm. I always thought aggression gave more penalties. That's why McSorley and Ulf Samuelson always seems to land themselves in the box.

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it would still correlate with PIM, were the chase the case, as the pressuring player would have more contact with the puckholder and thus be more likely to go for hooking, crosschecking, tripping, roughing and the injuring roughing, which seems to run about a 95% rate of attributing a secondary penalty length value (which is also set at 2 in the original, masking its existence). I would think only holding and interference penalties wouldn't increase. I've always accepted the general consensus that it was a penalty-taking rating. we have much to learn, fellow grasshoppers. from which other communities should we be trying to attract hackers? we're losing key ranks and my passion doesn't seem to get my lazy mind through the work of learning with years what others may easily swoop in with hours, resulting similarly. I think I'll run some simulations today.

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it would still correlate with PIM, were the chase the case, as the pressuring player would have more contact with the puckholder and thus be more likely to go for hooking, crosschecking, tripping, roughing and the injuring roughing, which seems to run about a 95% rate of attributing a secondary penalty length value (which is also set at 2 in the original, masking its existence). I would think only holding and interference penalties wouldn't increase. I've always accepted the general consensus that it was a penalty-taking rating. we have much to learn, fellow grasshoppers. from which other communities should we be trying to attract hackers? we're losing key ranks and my passion doesn't seem to get my lazy mind through the work of learning with years what others may easily swoop in with hours, resulting similarly. I think I'll run some simulations today.

Yet another reason smoz is THE MAN -- there is a special penalty leaders section on his Blitz site that categorizes the types of penalties, making it easy to carve out interference and/or holding.

http://www.blitz94.com/penaltiesplayers.asp?

Funny, the top 5 all-time interference penalty takers? Bure, Mogilny, Roenick, Gartner, Yzerman/Selanne (tied). All 5 speed or greater...which is what I expected to see.

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I exaggerated and varied a few stats on one team. here is that team:

picture5zr.png

I made notes in their names of the values of the stats on which I was focusing (Marchand has 85, 100, 85 for endurance, pass/shoot bias and aggression, so his name shows "E O E" for eighty-five, one hundred, eighty-five). Marchand/Bergeron/Seguin is the top line. they played a three hour game (with lines and penalties on) from which to glean some stats. for possible reference, here is the other team:

picture6eue.png

here are the penalties:

testingstats.png

teststats2.png

picture13bl.png

here are the shooting stats:

picture11i.png

picture14xk.png

there seem to have been no injuries. Chara of the many penalties is an aggressive first-liner, but so is Boychuk, who barely registered. overall, the penalty stats don't seem to say much as far as their correlation to the aggression ratings. however, Marchand and Seguin of the many shots have high shooting biases and the center, Bergeron, leans toward passing. none of those results challenge my assumptions, but I thought I should swap the top forwards' biases and repeat, culling more PIM data, too. I changed MAR/BER/SEG to 25, 100, 35 in the bias column and repeated the trial. O'Reilly and an unknown somebody else on COL got hurt. here is the shooting data:

picture16r.png

here is the penalty data:

picture26h.png

obviously there are a lot of factors in every stat and there is a lot of near randomness to the interactions, but I still expected closer correlations to what I thought I knew about those particular rating types. I am much less certain of what these attributes do.

Edited by trudatman

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Yet another reason smoz is THE MAN -- there is a special penalty leaders section on his Blitz site that categorizes the types of penalties, making it easy to carve out interference and/or holding.

http://www.blitz94.c...iesplayers.asp?

Funny, the top 5 all-time interference penalty takers? Bure, Mogilny, Roenick, Gartner, Yzerman/Selanne (tied). All 5 speed or greater...which is what I expected to see.

DaDonch actually came up with that penalty type table, when he made a stats site in PHP a few years ago.. I just copied the idea/design.

Wish he'd stuck around, it was really nice. He ran a sim league on it for a while.

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what do/did these league stats say about the player ratings in question?

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Side note: In SNES, if you have a delayed penalty shot call at the end of a period and the time runs out before the penalized team touches the puck the penalty shot will be at the beginning of the next period and that board magnet glitch appears.

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When it comes to the penalty shots, there are two fairly major bugs in the SNES version. (Can't wait to see how trudatman spins them into features!) Anyways, here they are:

1. When a player is hit or hooked on a breakaway and earns a penalty shot, but then takes a penalty himself (most commonly for brushing up against the goalie and getting an interference penalty, which is WAY too touchy and common in the SNES version) then that player who earned the penalty shot is sent to the box. Another player comes out to take the penalty shot. Then, as soon as the new player is ready to take the penalty shot, the puck zips over to the right side of the screen, like the puck is a magnet apparently attracted to the guy in the box. The puck can not be played and after a short while the whistle blows and the penalty shot is wasted.

2. When playing a game with penalties off, the refs still call penalty shots. No other penalties occur, but apparently they forgot that penalty shots result from penalties, which were supposed to be turned off.

To be fair, the SNES version does do a good thing with the short pause before the penalty shot starts. Any experienced Genesis player has probably had a penalty shot sneak up on him and wasted the opportunity by hitting B prematurely expecting the face-off. The result is accidentally having your player pass the puck down towards the goalie harmlessly. The small pause in the SNES version is great because the buttons don't do anything as it announces the penalty shot, says who will be taking the shot and for what penalty which gives both sides a chance to be ready. No hitting B on accident and wasting the chance.

1. I've never seen this :o But my SNES NHL 94 career is extremely short, this glitch is yet to come :)

Happened to me many times on Genesis that a penalty taker had two opportunities to score. After his first shot attempt (when the penalty shot should be over) he had another one, referee totally ignored the puck crossed the goal line/the goalie touched the puck.

2. Posted today in some other thread - for me its a big plus, I like it. Its an infraction just like an icing and thats why it is called even when penalties are off. In soccer video games there are still free kicks or penalties when the cards are off.

Edited by DominikJagr

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Side note: In SNES, if you have a delayed penalty shot call at the end of a period and the time runs out before the penalized team touches the puck the penalty shot will be at the beginning of the next period and that board magnet glitch appears.

Love this one, I use it as a strategy if someone has a breakaway in the last few seconds and I figure I can keep from touching the puck before the whistle goes. Dirty trick if people don't know about it, but all's fair in love and war. :closedeyes:

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