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GDL XI - Trade Rules


IceStorm70

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We are going to use the Smozoma trade evaluator calculation for GDL XI

Trade Evaluation:
The formula is as follows:

A player or pick has a trade value of 1000 divided by (draft position + 10).

So 1st pick has a value of 1000/(1+10) = 91. 10th pick has a value of 1000/(10+10)=50. And so on.

Calculate this for each player in a trade. If the final trade ratio is far away from 1.0, it could be a bad trade.

Some sample trades...

(Player pick -> value)

Trevor Linden 36 -> 21.74
Scott Stevens 35 -> 22.22
Mike Richter 85 -> 10.53
TOTAL 54.49
For ---------------------
Kirk Muller 25 -> 28.57
Chris Chelios 48 -> 17.24
Sean Burke 99 -> 9.17
TOTAL 54.99
RATIO: 54.99/54.49 = 1.009

Steve Yzerman 10 -> 50.00
Rob Blake 43 -> 18.87
TOTAL 68.87
For -----------------------
Dino Ciccarelli 17 -> 37.04
Paul Coffey 23 -> 30.30
TOTAL 67.34
RATIO: 68.87/67.34 = 1.023


If the trade overall ratio is > 1.500 it will go before a trading committee for review. Swos and Brutus make up the trade committee.

Trade Limit:
There will be 10 player/pick trade limit

The trade calculation is not a perfect tool however it does provide a reasonability check on a trade. Anything beyond that reasonability difference will then go before a committee to potentially override.

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Is it going by the player's draft position in this draft or average for the last few or whatever?

Great question. The last 3 drafts should be an accurate reflection of the players value

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I think a ratio of 2.0 might be too high. Maybe go with 1.6, from looking at some past blitz trades I have in a spreadsheet. Possibly allow a higher amount if a top 10 pick is involved (since they tend to unbalance the formula).

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I think a ratio of 2.0 might be too high. Maybe go with 1.6, from looking at some past blitz trades I have in a spreadsheet. Possibly allow a higher amount if a top 10 pick is involved (since they tend to unbalance the formula).

Thanks Smo, we'll try 1.5 and see how that works.

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Ice can clarify, but I think the formula is there just to create a warning. The trades won't necessarily be vetoed if the formula doesn't add up, but it will at least have to be reviewed.

You can't capture everything through a formula, but it's at least one step. I think we can look at the following factors:

* Formula (basically current draft position)

* ADP history

* Trading committee

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If value derives from position drafted it might not be the best due player preferation and so on, but I don't think there is anything bad with it. It just means it goes under review and admins make sure that the "losing" party here knows what he is doing.

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Exactly, the formula is a guideline not the rule. Ultimately the trade committee will need to approve all trades.

The formula will warn if a trade is marginal.

Plabax ran a few accepted trade scenarios thru it last night and didn't meet the 1.5 threshold. An example is 1.10 and 2.15 for 1.15 and 2.10. Always considered an acceptable trade but based on formula it's > 1.5.

Acceptable range prolly falls in the 10-15 area. But again, approvals required by committee.

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So why is the thread called Trade RULES? The formula is clearly meant to be a RULE, not a fkin guideline.

Approvals should not have to be required, because I'm telling you now a couple of things :

1. Half the coaches wont know the formula off the top of their heads

2. It takes time to calculate, nobody can do it on the spot

3. More than 80% of the trades you'll see won't fit in the formula.

Yesterday Ice came up with the fairest way he could to accquire two second rounders, and he said the trade was something anybody would say was fair. Once we calculated and we found out it wasn't, he said I had to ask smoz how to do it correctly. What a joke lol srsly?

The way we handled trades in Blitz 08 was perfect, we don't need to change it.

We can't use ADP history that well because most trades will include weight buggers. Unlike in Blitz, coaches in GDL don't really know who is good and who is not.. You can find Stephan Lebeau picked before Mario Lemieux, should we really use ADP?? Wasn't the best player in GDL X picked 38th overall? Elite players are always at the bottom half of round 2 so there's no way that will work.

The cause of the problems comes from people not knowing how to value players correctly, so the trades usually involve one smart player (Raph, Ice, Me (if this formula vanishes)) and one noob because they don't understand the players all that well.

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I'll weigh in here on something.

First off, the best players are not always the best GM's. The elite coach just make that teams/players perform the best. Some guys put a player on their roster with the right guys, and he leads the league in scoring. Sandstrom is going to lead the league in scoring w/ Raph using them on that roster, but not cracking top 20 with half of the guys in the league or with some of the other rosters that were out there.

Second, I'm not stating the top guys who have been playing in the league DO NOT know who all the best players are, have gone through the drafting process numerous times and made several trades, and are acclimated to that climate. It's an obvious edge.

A scoring system that is effective as a guide certainly doesn't do a ton of harm, unless in the end, you can show it's stopping noobs from making good trades, because they think they are getting the worse end of the deal, and don't do it, or make bad trades because it scores good for them. Maybe put a rule in to review ANY trade made with a team below .500 or under NOOB status.

I do agree w/ Plabax that the Blitz ROM had taken out the "weight bug" & also added in checking, so it was easier to navigate through a players projected value for the lesser player. This guy plays D, this guy scores, this guy is fast, etc. and the value of average draft position probably would be closer to the players actual value with a ROM like that.

For me, the formula wouldn't be used to figure out IF I'd do the deal, but I wouldn't object to it triggering a review of my trade(s).

Edited by Brutus
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The formula will be used as part of the decision process. If a trade looks unfair the formula will be used.

You're getting all riled up over nothing.

Let's focus energy on more important things like getting the league going - draft site, order, replacements etc.

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I was recently in SNES Puck Dynasty Auction. It's amazing how much confusion was going on because almost every coach in the league had never been through an "auction". Having been in several fantasy baseball auctions over the years, I had a large advantage, and anyone who plays with that ROM and uses my team admits the evidence is clearly there (unfortunately, my play doesn't always reflect that edge!!!). So, I understand wanting to make sure no one has a huge edge by getting awesome trades in.

GDL is MUCH MUCH more experienced, and should have almost no confusion, minus the new guys & some of the lower end guys that need to be protected from themselves :)

I like the idea of any trade by noobs or low winning percentages (guys like me) being triggered for review and the formula also triggering review.

I do understand the fear. One bad trade to a top guy can completely tip the scale for the other 4-5 contenders and ruin the experience. I will note that Carse was supposed to be unstoppable after all the trades went through last season, and did win north of the .800 percentage (amazing in itself), but was not in the GDL X Finals.

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Gr8 points Brutus. That's a good idea as far as def reviewing trades between upper tier guys and lower tier guys. Although being in the lower tier doesn't necessarily mean thry lack the player knowledge.

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Someone is clearly missing the point here.

Raph led the league with Sandstrom, because he is good.

Raph cannot lead the league with Russ Courtnall, or 40% of the people who are picked BEFORE Sandstrom.

Sandstrom was picked at 38th Overall, and he's ELITE. Nobody leads the league without an elite player.

What happens when Raph brings the vaseline with a trade? Only to have ADP as an excuse.

Here's an example : Kovalenko has high ADP, but hes maybe a top 150 player. Sandstrom's ADP is lower, but he's ELITE. The ADP's are close so really the trade looks close, but it's only being made because whoever is receiving Sandstrom knows they are in the money.

You need to trade down to get high trade value if you realize these things.. It's a steal and think of how easy it is to bait people. Unless the trades are made BEFORE the fags are picked in the second round, I guarantee we will see a bunch of unfair trades being let through because of this ADP scam.

ADP is s**t, most pick decisions are s**t. Icestorm, Raph know very well what I mean and you can look at the GDL X trades and see how this is a problem.

We have comments from Raph saying "I just tripled my weight" trying to cover up a highway vaseline filled robbery trade lol.

Come on. Fix it.

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I don't understand how in MULTIPLE drafts if a guy getting picked 38-40 is WORTH MORE than that, one of the "experts" wouldn't then PICK him higher, instead of letting him fall down to a RAPH. For this to work for Raph, you would need collusion of all the top coaches, including yourself!

Surely, you had a few picks before 38 & could have taken him.

He is an elite shooter. If you don't have the guys who are light & fast to get the puck into the position to pass it to him for a one timer, you aren't going to score. Plus, he's not fast or light enough to dominate on the defensive end, so that's another reason he falls down, imo.

No one is going to lead the league in scoring w/ Courtnall, but there are other shooters Raph is going to draft in the "shooter" draft spot.

I'm not missing the point, imo.

Another example. In fantasy football, if you have a very good team, and ALSO have the best tight end, your overall score goes goofy, and teams go, f&ck, can't beat the guy cause he's got a tight end giving him all those points. But, if you run off and draft a tight end in the first round of the draft, your team will ALWAYS, ALWAYS suck. So, being the guy who gets the good tight end as late as possible before the other guys do, is always a draft strategy.

Another example is a closer in fantasy baseball drafts. Draft one in the FIRST round, and your team just blows. But, draft one too late, and you are f&cked, but get one as late as possible while building a good team from the other needed positions, and you have a top team.

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Agree with Brutus. Raph and I did something entirely different in GDL X - we drafted a fatty sharpshooter sandy and Hull.

We both learned how to play with them in a lighty dominated game. Now the league will tend to shift slightly imo and people will begin to value fatties with skill as opposed to avoiding them all together.

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First of all, Klima led the league in points per game, not Sandstrom.

Leading the regular season in pts by a player doesn't really mean much in GDL. If I put Russ at Center, and run up the score on weaker players, which with 24 players in GDL is pretty easy to do, Russ will lead the league. Who cares. Sandstrom was a liability to me vs swos. Any games vs "A" players knew that it was Russ who was my biggest asset, despite Sandstrom having more point in the regular season. It was only because he was playing C that that was true and weaker players who don't manual were abused by his slapper.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Plabax, please understand that you alone have a unique understanding of players and attributes that creates a draft list quite different from the rest of the '94 world. It's not that the other people don't know what they are doing, it's that you have a different style and belief. Historical ADP generally works well in valuing the overall players.

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Agreed, Hull is worthless to me unless he had a bugger in Emerson and a mid weight skilled Fedorov.

It goes back to our discussion last night, an all weight bugger team or all fatty team in general will not compete for a title. They can be defended easier. A well balanced team provides goa he's, in general, the opportunity to change tactics based on what the opponent is giving you.

But Raph is right, different coaches value players differently. Would I waste a first rounder on hull if I knew he would be taken there? Prolly not.

Make your team the way you want. Trading will allow it. Again the while formula thing is a guideline if the 'feel' of the trade is not right.

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Look how stupid it is, If Sandstrom can abuse his slappers to lead the league in points, then it's just like picking Dino Ciccarelli in the 2nd round. Dino is no good unless he's coming off a one-timer.

Everybody but swos got abused by Sandstrom and now you are saying that it's no big deal? Yeah right, for someone who can score as many goals as I can.. 262 PTS while trying my hardest with a "better" player is a dream.

It is not really a unique understanding. For someone who lost to TomKabs (NYR) in 5 games with the all weight-bug MTL, it is funny how you can pretend not to link 2 and 2 together EVEN AFTER you traded your "good" players for a "worse" Sandstrom and say it's no big deal.

Raph knows the light noobs like the ones on MTL actually suck, so he uses them as trade bait to trade for players like Sandstrom because the ppl he trades to dont realize it.

If you led your team with Russ do you really think you could score 262 points? Pls lol stop.

They are not "worthless" without a bugger.. Go look at GENS A and we can all see how Tikkanen (4th Rounder) fucked everyone WITHOUT any buggers.

Pls and TY stop with the lies and I really hope I can make my team the way I want.

Edited by PlabaxV2
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wtga

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Ok here are all my draft secrets

I prefer to draft the following type of line up:

A speed merchant with some decent STH and Passing skills (Courtnalls/Bondra/Fedorov)

A sniper that can be fat or mid weight (Hull, Sandstrom, Hogue)

A weight bugger - 4 or 5 weight to man the RW to protect my other players (Emerson/Broten/Drake)

On the blueline I prefer:

A 5/6 weight guy with ave speed/agility that can B or C check effectively (Cote/Driver/Howe/ Gill etc)

a 7/8 weight guy that can pass well and has good mobility (Murphy/Wesely)

In goal:

Comfortable with a bottom 20-24. If I can get better I will to provide trade value later in the draft.

At the end of the day, I'll have the squad I want, compete for division title and possible #1 seed. Haven't captured a title yet but been to finals 3x's in 7 seasons played.

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