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GDL XI - Trade Rules


IceStorm70

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I hate him and wouldn't want h in classic or blitz.

Why? His stats are great, what did he do to you. In high-level video game playing the key to winning is whoring the game. When you play by who you like or w/e you will never win. Funny how it matches up with Icestorm perfectly.

Fact is, I don't "like" Tikkanen. I just use him because he has some great stats but nobody takes him until round 4. Stats are what matters and you cannot deny the fact that Tikk has some better stats than most of the 2nd rounders

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While we're openly sharing notes...

I have only been in two GDL drafts, and both teams were pretty different. I don't come in with a specific draft strategy, but try to get who I think is the best player at the time. Then after 2-3 rounds, I start to shape my team and concept.

For GDL09, I ended up with Patrick Roy. If you told me this beforehand, I would have thought you were joking as I don't value goalies that high. Be that as it may, Roy led the league in save percentage (.734), shutouts (6), and had a great GAA of 2.92 (2nd to Carse's Belfour of 2.81). Defensemen were Jeff Brown and Gord Hynes.

For GDL10, I drafted the best defensive pair in Don Sweeney and Nick Lidstrom. A significant improvement from GDL09, but my goalie was Terreri. With the better D pair, but worse goalie, Terreri finished with a .654 save %, 1 shutout, and a 3.59 GAA. Quite a drop from Roy and company.

Now, I really enjoyed having Sweeney this past season...much more useful than I previously thought as I could use him to carry the puck and start my rush, but I'm wondering if I'm undervaluing my goalie too much. It's a small sample size (Zalex was able to get .725 out of Terreri one season), but it's making me think twice.

For forwards, I generally don't get concerned about my 3F, as I think there's a plethora of useful 3F to use that you can snatch up in the later rounds. Generally any lightweight guy with mid-range skills. Shot not as important here as he will be passing and burying the occasional one-timer across the net. Semak led the GDL X in assists with 92, which is a good year judging by history, and he was (and usually is) a mid-6th pick.

I generally like to get the best available F in 1st round, whomever that is. If it's someone I like to use at C (Dino, Recchi, Sakic, LeBeau, etc.), I'll look for a winger that I feel pairs up well with him (oates, emerson, broten). On the flip side, if I get someone I like to use on wing (Russ, Ronning, Gretz, etc), I'll try to get a good shot center (Sundin, Mario, Roberts) in the 2nd round.

That's my "strategy", but really I go with the flow of the draft...hence Roy and Sweeney, lol.

Oh, and my results have been two losses in the conference finals. One to Carse, who lost to the phenom TK in the finals and the other a 7 game disaster (from my point of view, lol) to swos, the eventual champion.

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I think it would be interesting to do as a post-draft analysis, to have every coach play at least one game w/ each of the other 23 teams against anybody and submit a review/ranking of the teams he played with and expected results.

This could even be done post-season in the "interim" of the off-season.

Something to compare the seasons too, and I think it would add to the draft lore.

One of the issues with post-draft/trades, completed ROMS get ranked mainly by results, which are much more coach skill related than the actual team for at least 20-25% of the overall value. (Maybe the number is higher/lower, but either way, a straight GM analysis of the draft's skills can't be done based off results.

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Funny how it matches up with Icestorm perfectly.

Fact is, I don't "like" Tikkanen. I just use him because he has some great stats but nobody takes him until round 4. Stats are what matters and you cannot deny the fact that Tikk has some better stats than most of the 2nd rounders

Don't follow what you mean by matching up with me perfectly?

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Why we should not have the formula as a guideline

1. Swos and I can't even think of a trade that even meets the criteria. So obv most (95%) of the trades won't work.

2. A trade that actually meets the criteria will be so fair that nobody will dare veto it.

Most of all :

3. What if a "fair" trade is vetod by a troll?

Think of it, If a troll were to veto the trade because he knew it didn't fit the formula then what happens? I say this because 100% of the vetod trades WON'T fit the formula, so what is the point?

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Most committee's are 3 or more people, especially in league's that use a voting process to handle veto of trades. I'm referring to the tens of thousands of leagues out there that have a reverse order draft & trades in not only this game, but fantasy baseball, hockey, football, & basketball.

This is the common practice in any fantasy league, and rarely is handle by just "noise" of the league teams crying foul or a commissioner solely stepping in. The committee is used to avoid the appearance of unfairness or grudges/personal issues playing a role in a decision, or even worse, trying to keep the deck stacked in your own team's favor by veto'ing a trade.

Not exactly sure how someone elected/appointed to be on the committee is suddenly going to turn themselves into a troll, but would probably STILL require the help of at least one other member to also go "troll" on the trading parties.

All highly unlikely scenario you are painting, and just sounds foolish right now. It almost seems you have a false motive in half your points, that make that little sense to me.

Also, the part where you state Raph is trying to f&ck everyone only further highlights to me the need to have a preset committee that rules on protested trades, to prevent all the post trade accusations you would be making on any move Raph makes, which is already the implication on how he unfairly landed a Sandstrom from you earlier.

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Also, the part where you state Raph is trying to f&ck everyone only further highlights to me the need to have a preset committee that rules on protested trades, to prevent all the post trade accusations you would be making on any move Raph makes, which is already the implication on how he unfairly landed a Sandstrom from you earlier.

FYI, I drafted Sandstrom. Traded him back and forth with hokkee, but ended up with him. I didn't "f&ck anyone over".

Plabax's nonsensical ramblings about what I know or what I am thinking is just trolling that you should ignore.

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It doesn't matter brutus. Rules are rules. If a trade is vetod and it doesn't meet the criteria for a fair trade, then what must be done? The committee can't just drop the formula after it's been established and go against it. That will cause problems.

Raph is not a demon. He just has vaseline. Carse has vaseline too and hopefully I get some this season. It shows that a coach is smart and good at the draft game. The thing is ADP is the easy and unfair way of using your vaseline. The real way is to trade your picks and use ADP to PROJECT the players you will get. It's basically vaseline only without commiting any vaselina.

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I think you missed the process a bit. I can only hope that's what it is.

A trade is made that goes outside the parameters established for triggering a review by the committee. They take into consideration the formula's score for the trade, but more so, look at the overall trade & if it's fair enough to go by, or is worth vetoing. I'm assuming they take a vote, and pass the trade or veto it.

The formula does not veto a trade, nor does one troll. In fact, the way I understood the process here to be the trade is reviewed at the committee's discretion. In some leagues I've been in, the committee won't look at a trade until ONE team protests the trade first.

The idea of using the forumla to evaluate whether a trade needs to be reviewed is probably simpler than waiting for a league member to protest a trade, in all actuality.

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Brutus you are cordially invited to be part of the trade committee. I will recruit one other person to make it a committee of 3 including myself.

If I make a trade Britus and the other person will need to approve.

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And before you think I'm trolling. This is a perfect example.

Player A has Kovalenko (Gutter Trash player)

Player B has Sandstrom (Elite Player)

Player A trades Kovalenko to Player B for Sandstrom.

The trade gets vetod.

Here are the scenarios :

Scenario 1 - Trade does NOT fit formula, committee then uses ADP and sees that they are close enough in ADP. Kovalenko has the slight edge in ADP so it is assumed Kovalenko is a tiny bit better. It is deemed a fair trade.

Result : It is actually Player A who wins the trade. Player A knows how much extra value he can earn by exploiting this. Player A had the higher pick, but due to all the bad players that go before the draft steals, he takes the bad player with a high ADP any chance he gets so he can successfully execute his trades.

Scenario 2 : Trade fits formula but because the picks are extremely close to each other the trades go through.

Result : Player A exploits the draft formula to make what is deemed a "fair" trade by the committee.

Scenario 3 : The coaches don't use the formula/ADP and say.. This is the police and we're here to stop this robbery. We won't let this act of expulsion happen. You are under arrest B)

Result : Player B is mad, but it's better than being fucked by a smart coach (who is usually a top coach), right?

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IF Kovalenko keeps getting drafted ahead of Sandstrom, you are going to have to stop calling him elite.

There has to be at LEAST 12 "top" coaches out of 24, and possibly a few more, so that's at LEAST 24 picks in the first 36 picks to get picked in front him for him to end up #38. (#13-24 plus #25-36 assuming top coaches finish in the top half)

Hardly elite if he can't be drafted by you or anyone else in the top 36.

Elite is 1st round material in any draft in any league in any formula, especially in a league where you only play with the first 6 rounds anyhow.

It is by the word's definition to not be the #38th pick in anything for it to be elite.

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I'm starting to think your main goal in all of this is to MAKE SURE Raph doens't get Sandstrom at #38 again by bringing enough attention to his talent to assure his draft position rises :)

Which isn't a bad strategy.

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I'll take the committee position if no one else is available or everyone seems comfortable with the idea of me for some reason.

I generally don't join committees in my leagues just so I can be the guy trying to plunder!!! :)

In this particular situation, my play ruins any chance of grandeur anyhow, so I'd be for it if needed.

And, I'm generally "around" during the day, for short intervals. Not enough to be able to play, but definitely to check in & push picks through/trades, etc, perhaps to avoid the chaos you spoke of last year.

***********

I'll edit my post here. If you want me to be in the committee, I'd gladly accept. I can't stand the idea of someone else coming in and having to imagine Plabax convinces them his logic is an accurate way to look at things.

Edited by Brutus
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IF Kovalenko keeps getting drafted ahead of Sandstrom, you are going to have to stop calling him elite.

There has to be at LEAST 12 "top" coaches out of 24, and possibly a few more, so that's at LEAST 24 picks in the first 36 picks to get picked in front him for him to end up #38. (#13-24 plus #25-36 assuming top coaches finish in the top half)

Hardly elite if he can't be drafted by you or anyone else in the top 36.

Elite is 1st round material in any draft in any league in any formula, especially in a league where you only play with the first 6 rounds anyhow.

It is by the word's definition to not be the #38th pick in anything for it to be elite.

He is elite. No player can get 262 PTS and not be elite. I consider my offense elite.. I would never be able to achieve 262 PTS lol. Sandstrom is a scoring machine. This is why it's so stupid. Most coaches have the mentality that he sux because he is heavy, so he doesnt get picked. Kovalenko is actually BAD but since he's light he'll get picked ahead of him. ADP is a bad way of determining skill, you can find players in rounds 4 and 5 who are better than a handful of players in round 2 and even one or two in round 1.

For example, Icestorm complains that Bourque sucks because he is too heavy and that Wesley is better. Bourque is the 2nd best dman in the game for sure.. His stats are sexy as f**k but look how low he drops. It's not preference for me, it's actually the stats that just speak for itself. Sandstrom has a 5-5 shot, Bourque has a 5-5 shot, automatic elite.

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A couple things I've always considered in leagues.

1. If you get multiple proposals for a player, it's usually because he's really good. Perhaps that's why you have him.

2. Because these are one year leagues (draft position not-withstanding) - most trades should be simply due to preference (ie. player for player).

3. The question you should ask yourself most often isn't whether a trade makes your team better - it's whether you can beat the other team after the trade. Don't make other good teams better.

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Ok, in your opinion, he is elite. I couldn't disagree more with you on this, and would have to leave it at that.

IF he were elite, the other coaches would draft him. An entire league INCLUDING RAPH & YOU!!!! can't possibly be blind to the player's PROPER draft spot, and keep passing him over EVERY year if he's worth more.

IN a league where the draft resets, and the players ratings DO NOT change, AVERAGE DRAFT POSITION is emphatically the correct value for the player.

Otherwise, you are claiming ONLY 2-3 people in the league have the correct values for these players and by this assumption of seeing the glaring weakness in everyone else's values, would be ONE of those people.

Therefore, your team should be so retardly good, no matter WHOM Raph trades for, you should ALSO have the exact same strength of roster, and therefore, you complaint/gripe becomes invalid to me.

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You cannot POSSIBLY state I should trade my 2nd round pick for my 4th round pick because that's where the elite players are.

If you draft 6 rounds, that's 144 picks. The top 2-3% would come out to 2-4 picks.

That's the entire idea of elite.

50 saves from your reliever in baseball is elite, but he does not make your team elite. In fact, in a draft, this guy would not be picked until Round 3 or 4 EVERY draft EVERY season.

You have someone that has one ELITE skill.

Edited by Brutus
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Brutus, myself and one other person will make up the trading committee. We'll review each trade and approve. If there is a group (4-5 coaches or so) of coaches that disagree with a decision we'll put the trade to a league wide vote and defer to the consensus.

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Very excited for the upcoming draft, will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I already have my on draft listing done emphasising certain skills and weight quite a bit, but I'm quite sure players like Swos would give even more emphasis on weight. Even though that list is not something I will follow as a rule, more as a guideline. And being one of the last picks there will be a hard decision to be done, will you go for the forwards or try to get the team to be elite at least something or defence or even goaltending (have huge reservations about goaltending, but could see it work like Raph explained). Anyway the conversations and all are making it seem an exciting upcoming draft. Looking forward to it. :)

Edited by Depch
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Thanks Dcicon but we're going to go with a two man committee - SWOS a longtime vet and Brutus a new comer to GDL but familiar with draft leagues.

If they cannot agree on a decision on a trade a poll will be out up for league wide vote. I'll update the initial rules post in this thread tonight.

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Glad to hear your pumped about the draft Depch. Excited to have new skilled coaches joining the league!

SWOS actually won last year with an average weight team, 5, 7, 8 up front and 7 and 8 on blueline from what I recall.

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Brutus, myself and one other person will make up the trading committee. We'll review each trade and approve. If there is a group (4-5 coaches or so) of coaches that disagree with a decision we'll put the trade to a league wide vote and defer to the consensus.

Thanks Dcicon but we're going to go with a two man committee - SWOS a longtime vet and Brutus a new comer to GDL but familiar with draft leagues.

If they cannot agree on a decision on a trade a poll will be out up for league wide vote. I'll update the initial rules post in this thread tonight.

lolol

Ice, are you in over your head here? You seem to be turning this into a mess.

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