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GDL XI - Trade Rules


IceStorm70

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Yeah.. what a waste of a thread trying to improve on GDL X only to make it worse.

We have no proof of any positive input so stfu before you tell us we are usual suspects. Brutus has no experience, it's a very valid point.

Just saying.

Edited by PlabaxV2
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Back to some draft strategies.

In any league, you set up your ranking and somewhere, can have access to "projected draft position" online via "mock drafts" or here, "ADP" from previous drafts, since the roster values never change.

You then try to find what you consider good value picks based on your ranking and their draft slots.

I've got this guy rated to be worth #24 pick, but he usually goes #35.

I'm up at pick #26. I don't pick again until after his ADP of 35.

Most guys probably take the guy there, slightly ahead of his ADP, but below your rated value for him.

OR do you take someone else & plan on trading down to get your guy after he's been drafted at #35. By letting him fall to #35, you've enabled his trade value to go down, and MIGHT be able to acquire him. However, might actually get PICKED by someone who values him at #24 or even better just as you do, and won't trade the player, because he knows in his opinion, he got a steal, or better way, great value pick based on their rankings.

You are then left with the decision, is there any other players on the board at #26 that you value above #26, and if so, the risk is not as great to not draft him. Because you have two value players on the board, and know in a 6 Round draft, don't have the resources to trade for both, but could probably draft one & trade for the other, or at worst draft one of the two values and fail to trade for the other.

The other fun draft moments come in when you get crazy with a theme, like going light, or going defense, etc, and don't balance a team out. Once you start, it can be HARD to stop. In football video games, once I started on my defensive line, forget the QB, forget the wideouts, and a few other spots. I was GUNG HO getting the baddest d-line ever!!! Always ruined me.

And finally, my favorite, there always is one or two guys who just LOVE LOVE LOVE someone that normally drops down in a draft. And maybe even a Round 3 or 4 type guy. Dudes got ants in his pants and values him at late #1 or early Round 2. So, does he pick him end of Round 2, beginning of Round 3 and remove the chance of not getting him, at least 20 spots ahead of his value?? or does he risk losing him and wait for him to come to him, or try to trade for him post draft???

I love those type of draft decisions.

Looking forward to it.

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I like the take the #24 rated player and trade with the guy who gets the 35th u really wanted. Plus you would move up earlier in third theoretically for swapping players.

Then u get who u want and move up in later round.

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I have never been in a GDL draft. You are correct.

Every season, at least 18 of the 24 guys doing those drafts were NHL94 vets and maybe more.

The average position they chose to rank those picks is beyond any other needed proof to the value of that player in a draft. It is impossible to take 10 drafts, and average them out, and have a player rank #38 but still be a top 5 player (elite).

The fact that you can't see that shows the mental flaw in your young mind. It's nothing personal. It shows up on all your posts once you get excited about something. You repeatedly post false statements (not intentionally, I'm sure), but just have this hole in your logic. Once you turn, unfortunately, you troll the board with the negative comments.

Clearly, you play this game much better than me once the teams are on the ice, and the joysticks are in the hands. You even know how to program on a computer. Please don't confuse this with IQ, or actual in game knowledge, although your performance level once the puck drops implies a high in game understanding. I'm 1000% sure I can handle myself in a trade/draft for a roster.

Seems to me the best run league of all time for this site had a commish who used a formula to establish trade values. I've read most of his posts. I've yet to find one that did not indicate a) an EXTREMELY high IQ, & constant professionalism and class, c) deep understanding of the inner code & what makes a player worth what within the league.

He's endorsed Icestorm's idea. I can't THINK of ANYONE's endorsement, especially on this site, that would hold more weight & positivity you claim is lacking here.

Edited by Brutus
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Yeah, ice, that's the design, but like I said, the flaw comes in because the guy you rated #24 MIGHT not go at #35. He might go #27 to a guy who had him ranked #21, and won't trade him now.

Also, he might drop to #40 and just be a total steal!

Or, you might draft a guy at #26 worth #24 to you and move on, not worrying about ADP because you don't like to rely on trading.

I agree though. I think having a guy ranked that HIGH above his ADP requires not picking him there and hoping you can trade for him.

And, if the guy ranked at #24 is a guy you internally ranked as #32, now you are left trying to package him off for someone else. Which, I'm sure starts the hokkee dance :)

Edited by Brutus
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Yeah, I would look at not just his ADP, but the range of where #35 goes to assess the risk a little more. If it's something like 34, 36, 35, 36, 34....then you can make a pretty reasonable gamble. If it's 27, 40, 28, 41, 39...I'll factor that in. Also look at what alternatives happen if your scenario doesn't work out.

But I agree with Ice, more likely than not I will opt to trade later vs. drafting early. HOWEVER, if we have a trade limit (5/5 picks players), you have to plan this a little more if you're a trade addict (see: hokkee, ice, raph)

The most difficult aspect I have with GDL and Blitz drafts are goalies. They all start going 2nd and 3rd round and you have to decide that you're either going to get a mid-tier goalie, sacrificing a solid D/F, or wait until the 5-6th rounds and grab a garbage goalie (along with Frey and Ice, lol). It's scary how fast they go.

Yes, I love drafts too...can't help constantly analyzing and thinking of draft pick/trade scenarios

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Chris Kontos lead scoring in Blitz 1. Is he considered "elite"? How about everyone on AJ's team that season?

People pick players to cater to their playing style. No one wanted Sandstrom for 30+ picks because he didn't cater to their style. That doesn't mean all elite players don't get picked until the end of the 1st beginning of the 2nd.

That's why you go by the ADP of the last few drafts, better average. I don't see a problem doing it this way.

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I like the take the #24 rated player and trade with the guy who gets the 35th u really wanted. Plus you would move up earlier in third theoretically for swapping players.

Then u get who u want and move up in later round.

This is what I've been saying the whole time.. This is an exploit. This would NEVER happen if all the coaches actually knew what they were doing. Are you guys serious? This is a cheap move that is only possible when one coach takes advantage of another coach. I say this because the first 10 players that are likely to be picked in the second round are actually worse than the following 10 picks (11-20).. This is just an easy way to exploit trades and look to ADP to support it lol.

Here's an example if we were to use pick 24 and pick 35 from last GDL.

24 : Joe Juneau (Picked by Icestorm)

35 : Benoit Hogue (Picked by swos)

Juneau has much higher ADP, but Hogue is clearly the better player.. This is how ADP is screwed up.

This trade would certainly not be allowed BECAUSE whoever had pick 24 is getting so much extra trade value, which is why it's only fair if the pick is traded beforehand. Please guys, I would like to see a legit argument that counters this.

And look even :

26: Fedorov, better than Juneau

27 : Robitaille, better than Juneau

31 : Sundin, better than Juneau

33: Roberts, better than Juneau

34 : Lemieux, better than Juneau

36 : Sanderson, better than Juneau

37: Oates, better than Juneau

38: Sandstrom, better than Juneau

44 : Courtnall, better than Juneau

45: Larmer, better than Juneau

47: Hawerchuk, better than Juneau

54: Makarov, better than Juneau

58: Hull, better than Juneau

80: Kamensky, better than Juneau

86: Muller, better than Juneau

92: Tikkanen, better than Juneau

Need I say more?

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Those are your values.

If even 1/3 of the guys playing agreed with you, half of those guys would get picked at a higher spot, especially on Muller & Tikkanen, so clearly you are flying close to solo on these rankings.

There is NO plausible way to force the vast majority to use your values for players.

The more logical choice is to have the majority's values (which would come out to average draft position) set the market value for a player.

And, in the middle of that, if you are able to make your roster have a WORSE average draft position, but PLAY better for you, congrats.

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Please guys, I would like to see a legit argument that counters this.

Plabax, please understand that you alone have a unique understanding of players and attributes that creates a draft list quite different from the rest of the '94 world. It's not that the other people don't know what they are doing, it's that you have a different style and belief. Historical ADP generally works well in valuing the overall players.

Once you finally understand this, you can move on with your argument.

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Even if it's my opinion, it's still an exploit. Who in the right mind would ever make that trade if the players were valued in a better order?

Answer this question honestly :

Are you not taking advantage of other coaches by doing this?

If ADP has to be used it's better that only the picks can be traded to project your players unless you can actually make a fair trade that involves players only straight up. This way there nobody gets the chance to abuse the trading committee system.

Because whether we like it or not, we are taking this preference thing a bit too far. There is a line we have to draw. We cannot say Michael Goulet and Roenick depends on preference. Some players are just simply better. The real problem is that we have been brainwashed to believe that certain players will suck if they are heavy.

Example.. I used to think that Bourque sucked until Raph told me he was the 2nd best Dman in the game. Why would I think Bourque sucked if I had never used him? Because all of the brainwashing that goes on over here. Just a valid point and the truth so ty very much

Edited by PlabaxV2
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It is so sad that Icestorm does not understand my point.. You clearly cannot be going around trading players 10-15 spots down and then moving up 20-30 spots and then call it "theoretically swapping". Thats f**king cheap and that's what creates superteams

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To be an exploit, you would have to end up with an entire team of highly drafted players, not a team of lowly drafted players that Plabax has deemed worthy of high picks but no one will apparently pick high.

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u guys need to chill the f**k out

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Brutus, taking advantage of other coaches is an exploit.

Moving up 20-30 spots in a draft because you know that you can find a better player so many spots after, is cheap.

Preference cannot be an excuse because of the results this method has been producing.

Where is the line for preference? Raph scored 262 PTS with Sandstrom and the excuse is "so many people would suck with Sandstrom"?

There are not a lot of players in '94 capable of scoring 262 PTS, just to let you guys know lol.. I know that more than 80% of the people saying Sandstrom sucks have never used him before. It's just like how people say the light players are good, despite ever using the much. I actually used Sandstrom for the first time yesterday and lol.. I used to think he sucked, once you use him you realize how powerful he really is. We can't let this preference thing drag forever.

Edited by PlabaxV2
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Ok, well UNTIL you PERSONALLY educate the ENTIRE GDL league on how their rankings are inaccurate, you are going to have to learn to play with the Raph being able to trade for a heavy shooter & pay late round price for that late round pick.

Hell, he doesn't even need to trade for them. It's a draft where heavy shooters are GOING to go late. So, you can't even stop someone from drafting them late. Should we make it ILLEGAL to draft Tikkanen after the 2nd round because he is worth MORE than that and it would unfairly tip the scale??

I don't know how you can't see the flaw in your logic.

And, yeah, as Freydey says, you guys need to chill the f&ck out :)

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Ok, well UNTIL you PERSONALLY educate the ENTIRE GDL league on how their rankings are inaccurate, you are going to have to learn to play with the Raph being able to trade for a heavy shooter & pay late round price for that late round pick.

Hell, he doesn't even need to trade for them. It's a draft where heavy shooters are GOING to go late. So, you can't even stop someone from drafting them late. Should we make it ILLEGAL to draft Tikkanen after the 2nd round because he is worth MORE than that and it would unfairly tip the scale??

I don't know how you can't see the flaw in your logic.

And, yeah, as Freydey says, you guys need to chill the f&ck out :)

He does not pay any price, which is the point of the exploit. Or else it would not be an exploit :)

I guess we do need to chill, but it's clear that you guys aren't following what I am saying correctly so the wrong things are being thought and said.

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And, it's like when you quit in Classic because you lost to me.

You are so mad Raph scored more points than you could with a player you've all but driven yourself insane.

Your logic resulted in you claiming the ENTIRE Classic league is gay, and not even worth playing.

Now you've got it twisted to the point where any trade that doesn't fit your values to be an exploit. I can clearly see you are going to do your best to ruin what would normally otherwise be a very fun & exciting draft/trade-a-thon.

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Ok. I'm leaving it alone.

I'm going under the majority assumption that a player's draft position is close to his "perceived" value, and not everyone is going to agree with this value, and it should create the DESIRE for both teams to make some trades, to get their hands on players they value more than you do & vice-a-versa.

I'm also going under the assumption you will be unhappy with 90% of the trades those guys make because you either a) believe they are ripping people off, or B) have become so competitive with losing to them you've convinced yourself you have to stop them from getting better.

Either way, I'm done commenting on it. No points can come either direction. My door is open to trade talks with all, including you, come draft time :)

Look forward to it boys.

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As it stands, if I'm reading it right, I'm picking in the top 4, and either 3rd or 4th pick, depending on if Begley joins or not.


IF I've looked it properly.

That means #4 (or #3) wouuld not be on the block until I knew who was picked before them. However, I would listen to offers prior to picking.

Pick #44(or 45) (2nd Round) and Pick #52 (or 51) (Round 3) would definitely be on the block for the right combos.

I probably would not move Rounds 4 & below prior to knowing what I'm doing w/ Rounds 1-3, in case they were needed for a package.

Obviously, this belongs in a different thread that has yet to come, but I figure I'd start the conversation in a different direction.

Edited by Brutus
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Ok. I'm leaving it alone.

I'm going under the majority assumption that a player's draft position is close to his "perceived" value, and not everyone is going to agree with this value, and it should create the DESIRE for both teams to make some trades, to get their hands on players they value more than you do & vice-a-versa.

I'm also going under the assumption you will be unhappy with 90% of the trades those guys make because you either a) believe they are ripping people off, or B) have become so competitive with losing to them you've convinced yourself you have to stop them from getting better.

Either way, I'm done commenting on it. No points can come either direction. My door is open to trade talks with all, including you, come draft time :)

Look forward to it boys.

I'm not afraid that I will lose, it is just an exploit that you guys are afraid to admit. Taking advantage of coaches who under value good players is another way of saying, I can gain draft position by purposely targeting those who clearly do not know the players well enough. It is abuse in the sense that nobody would ever think of making a trade like that if all the coaches had the knowledge to not undervalue a good player so much.

Now you may say that it is "preference", but it's pretty ridiculous when someone appears to be throwing away so many spots in the draft only to move up 20-30 spots. This is when it becomes more than "preference" and it's a clean example of an exploit.

Hope to see some good trades :)

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Great question.

I know if you click on the player within the site it shows his last 4-5 seasons & playoff stats and his ratings.

However, it does not show ADP. Maybe that could be edited into a player's cards.

Also, there is a site that is used during the drafts that lists all the previous drafts and the current draft pool. However, this site is not always up. I know because when my buddies & I were doing our own draft last year amongst ourselves, and were using the site as a guide, it went down middle of our draft, after the GDL draft ended :(

Not sure what that site even is now, or if it can be put up now, left up, etc.

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