Insider Weight Knowledge! (Weight Bug)


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So back to this.

Does this not take weight out of the equation and just make it that unknown or perhaps even the checking rating that determines the sucess of a check?

Checking rating wouldn't factor into this...setting the values to the same value would be like the person checking themselves.

As to the success, you'd have to investigate if it's random, or if there is some other factor.

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  • 1 year later...

I just wanted to provide a lil more info on C-B after reading A.J.'s revision on PHI in the Building Lines arena. On paper, he is correct that it looks like Lindros is a C-B checking monster because of his heavy weight. However, his 3 SPEED makes it more difficult to throw C-B check, unless his opponent is up next to him. Reason being, is that his lower SPEED not only limits his ability to launch at the player he wants to hit. And SPEED is important in being able to lay a guy out with C-B, because it gives you a bigger boost, and in effect expanding the range at which you can throw the hit. Lindros has a shorter "range" to throw this hit because of his 3 SPEED, he runs out of steam at the end of it and doesn't get a big boost in the beginning. So while someone like Lindros can technically be "equipped" to hit a large amount of players (due to that heavy weight), his low SPEED rating hurts a lot. Yes, he can still do it, he has to be very close to the guy to do it. Compare that to someone lighter like a Bob Carpenter (who is 7 weight) but 4 SPEED and you get a much more effective C-B checker (when you know are aware of who you're trying to hit). With that added SPEED, he can boost further/from further away and quicker. Since he's not a complete slug weight-wise he can track people (chase). No one chases with Lindros with any success.

In the end, being responsible, knowing your opponent, the attributes of the 2 skaters involved, and the situations that are best (or worst) for C-B is key. Not going overboard with it (like me haha) is important. Like any strategy, there are risks and rewards.

Edited by Uncle Seth
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I just wanted to provide a lil more info on C-B after reading A.J.'s revision on PHI in the Building Lines arena. On paper, he is correct that it looks like Lindros is a C-B checking monster because of his heavy weight. However, his 3 agility makes it more difficult to throw C-B check, unless his opponent is up next to him.

Just wanted to help you out here bud, when I say 4/3 skating for a guy like Lindros, I'm inputting the agility first and then the speed. So 4 agility and 3 speed is what Lindros has to work with and the rest of what your saying is spot on. He doesn't have the C-B check range of a guy like Tikkanen, but there are more guys that Lindros can do damage too.

There is also one more thing to consider with guys like Lindros and more so Kjell Samuelsson or Marty Mcsorely is that they can be so heavy it becomes a bit of overkill. Its overkill trying to nail Joe Sakic with Lindros because only an 8 weight rating is needed to CB Sakic. At 12 weight Lindros doesn't have anywhere near the mobility of a 9 weight Brind'Amour despite sharing the same exact skating skills. It is very important to consider just how much versatility should be sacrificed for a little extra physical play.

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Just wanted to help you out here bud, when I say 4/3 skating for a guy like Lindros, I'm inputting the agility first and then the speed. So 4 agility and 3 speed is what Lindros has to work with and the rest of what your saying is spot on. He doesn't have the C-B check range of a guy like Tikkanen, but there are more guys that Lindros can do damage too.

There is also one more thing to consider with guys like Lindros and more so Kjell Samuelsson or Marty Mcsorely is that they can be so heavy it becomes a bit of overkill. Its overkill trying to nail Joe Sakic with Lindros because only an 8 weight rating is needed to CB Sakic. At 12 weight Lindros doesn't have anywhere near the mobility of a 9 weight Brind'Amour despite sharing the same exact skating skills. It is very important to consider just how much versatility should be sacrificed for a little extra physical play.

This is my 2nd consecutive screw up in regards to a player's agility/speed rating in the past hour haha! But I did perceive your statement (about Lindros) as speed 4, agility 3, and I was wrong. I don't use Lindros ever, and I guess it's because of the 3 speed (MIXED with that atrocious 12 weight) that makes it feel like he's such a crappy skater and C-B throwing candidate.

We're on the same page here. I think I understand your overkill idea and what you mean. In other words, much better off using a more skilled skater (regardless of weight) to defend against a Sakic type than a guy like McSorely who's may be viewed as a great C/B defenseman, when in reality he's horrible b/c he can hardly move with that 3 agil, 3 speed, 14 weight. To get any value from such crappy skaters defensively, you have to be much more conservative and not chase. They're so boat-anchor-like that they stay in the same general area of the defensive zone, just clogging up prime space, and in a sense, staying in position. For some people, these types of skating attributes are reassuring. Ask Depch, he loves Garth Butcher and that is why. He's just there when you need him and perfect for Depch's style of play. An old school meat and potatoes defenseman you can count on to be in position. I'd imagine someone like Housley is the last person someone of Depch's style would want on D for their team.

Edited by Uncle Seth
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Having had Lindros in GDL, I can state he is very effective on the C/B if put in the middle of the ice.

The biggest reason is there is a lot of math to keep running in your mind.

Can I just C check the guy? (Is the guy I'm controlling 2 points lower in weight)

Is this guy easy to B check or will he just wiggle? (Is his stick handling above 4)

Can I C/B this guy? (Is the guy I'm controlling 2 points heavier in weight)

When you have Lindros, the answer is always F-NO, I can't C Check anyone in the league, and hell yes, I can C/B just about 99% of the guys in this league. So, he keeps the math simple while playing the game at the high speed it runs at.

His true weakness is his lousy stick handling and speed 3 that when you put him in the Center position to maximize his defense, tends to then kill your offense.

I drafted him in the 7th Round, but played him a lot because I just wanted to give it a try. I can say safely that while it's fun to TRY w/ Big E, as a whole, the slow bastard is not a good fit unless it's a Blitz league.

He still can't take a check, is too slow to fill the lane on the one timers and definitely does not get back for break aways!

But, I almost NEVER missed a C/B with him if that helps anyone regrade the Big Pig.

Edited by Brutus
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Having had Lindros in GDL, I can state he is very effective on the C/B if put in the middle of the ice.

The biggest reason is there is a lot of math to keep running in your mind.

Can I just C check the guy? (Is the guy I'm controlling 2 points lower in weight)

Is this guy easy to B check or will he just wiggle? (Is his stick handling above 4)

Can I C/B this guy? (Is the guy I'm controlling 2 points heavier in weight)

When you have Lindros, the answer is always F-NO, I can't C Check anyone in the league, and hell yes, I can C/B just about 99% of the guys in this league. So, he keeps the math simple while playing the game at the high speed it runs at.

His true weakness is his lousy stick handling and speed 3 that when you put him in the Center position to maximize his defense, tends to then kill your offense.

I drafted him in the 7th Round, but played him a lot because I just wanted to give it a try. I can say safely that while it's fun to TRY w/ Big E, as a whole, the slow bastard is not a good fit unless it's a Blitz league.

He still can't take a check, is too slow to fill the lane on the one timers and definitely does not get back for break aways!

But, I almost NEVER missed a C/B with him if that helps anyone regrade the Big Pig.

This game's complexity has skyrocketed because of C/B hasn't it? More MATH involved, thinking on the fly. I think I was trying to convey that his range to connect is less, you have to be closer to your opponent to CB with someone like Lindros. So if you're more passive, and wait for them to come close to you (venus fly trap method) you can still CB with Lindros effectively. However, compare that to a speedy, heavy agile skater like Tikkanen, who can harass you to no end and deliver CB from greater distance. Does that make sense? Also, since you are limited to close-range CB (with Lindros) your accuracy can be high because of that. However, if you compare a lighter but more agile and faster player like Tikkanen, at close range he will equally effective at CB as Lindros, even though there are slightly fewer players in the league (% wise) he can CB. Yet, with all that added speed and agility (along with being heavy enough), Tikk is a vastly superior CB'er as a whole.

In other words, weight is a major factor in CB, added speed expands the "kill zone territory"

Edited by Uncle Seth
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It makes sense, but I'm not sure I find the "range" as limiting mentally as you do.

Esa is the fastest fat big boy in the game, so he's the extreme example of positive C/B beast.

Lindros is one of the slowest, but also by a mile, one of the fattest that actually gets ON THE ice. Super fat guys simplify the game. You know you are going down if you get C checked, you know you can take any C/B check, and you probably are going to move very slow.

Esa gets drafted top 3-4 Rds, and Lindros, well he's a 7th/8th Rd marginal player.

If Lindros was allowed to play LD or RD, I'd rate him way up there then. As a wing man, he's god awful. As a center man, he's bad.

Still an educational process to play with his types from time to time to learn/understand the advantages/short falls BEFORE a draft gets run! Worst thing to do is try to learn AFTER and they are already on your team :)

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Hahahahahahah (before vs after).

I have a hunch that my "range obsession" stems from my extremely aggressive style. I want to be able to nail a guy from a mile away! It's just so much fun, and SLIGHTLY addicting. CB'ing with heavy, agile, fast players is very heat-seeking missile-like.

Edited by Uncle Seth
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do your draft/dynasty leagues allow one position change for one skater per team per season?

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No, minus playing a forward anywhere you want (LW, C, or RW), there is no forward to d-man or defender to forward in any of the leagues running in the past few years.

There have been leagues like Mac's '92, where you could not do line changes, except one exception per team involving moving a forward from LW to RW or RW to LW. This forced you to almost primarily play with the starting lineups as is, and had some interesting effects.

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I was thinking about how I moved Burns up and down over the last few seasons and how I'll put a forward on defense for a powerplay line quite often, so I figured something like allowing one simple transition per team would be a nice actionable option to have before the ROM is finalized. maybe penalize the moving player one agility step and one endurance step or make some awareness tweaks or something to keep every participant from doing it. it seems like a good idea for a future league.

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