Jump to content
NHL'94 Forums

SNES Stockholm Syndrome


Recommended Posts

SNES Stockholm syndrome, is a psychological phenomenon in which Sega Genesis players express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their Nintendo captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the SNES. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from the SNES for an act of kindness. The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 8% of victims show evidence of SNES Stockholm syndrome.

After being forced to play the SNES version of NHL '94 in preparation for the Tournament tomorrow, I starting becoming quite fond of this version.

Here is my sort list of "Pros"

-Graphics are cleaner

​-Animations are more fluid (Goal Cerebrations)

-Players have blades

-Jager's Mullet is in Color

- Ron Barr talks to me when I fall asleep.

Please send help!

Edited by McMikey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Noooooooooooooooooo!

Gens is wayyyyy better, snap out of it haha.

- The ways of scoring are way more limited in snes compared to gens

- The competitive community has always been quite a lot smaller in snes compared to gens (there's way more gens leagues, and they're much more decorated. There hasn't been a snes league in ages other than classic, while gdl, blitz, and many small gens leagues are still going strong).

- Snes community is (arguably, I suppose) weaker than gens, because Bo was able to switch to snes after only playing gens and win SDL (and classic too? I forget). Nobody has been able to make the jump from snes to gens and find real success

- Sound is awful compared to gens lol. Music sounds wayyy worse in snes, and also things like the crowd being awkwardly silent

- Trudatman is snes, enough said

- You can't press hook to get up in gens like you can instantly in snes. Seriously, what's the point in hitting if they can get right back up (and if timed right they hook you!). Punished for making a successful check.

- Gens is more flexible with editing. Like having the programs Nose and Eare and stuff (ie. you can't edit center ice logos in snes)

- Everyone can check everyone in snes. This allows much less depth than gens. As matchups have much more variety when certain players counter others, and others counter them.

- Every f****** shot hits the post in snes. That's not even fun!! It's totally random

- Passing takes less skill in snes because it's way too easy. You can argue that gens passing sucks because many guys fumble it or miss it, but the more you play the more you realize that you can move the receiver a little to receive passes better. This in turn makes passing attributes much more important, Gretzky really can pass better than the rest

- People will argue that they have instant manual goalie in snes, and gens is delayed. While this is true, the goalie control delay adds a ton of depth to gens. It has become an art in the competitive community. You really have to manage your defense and goaltending well. This creates so many mindgames as you have to predict how they're going to try to score earlier.

Got a little help from Plabax with these hehe

I will literally cry if snes gets the spotlight in the documentary, it would be so unjust!

So much more as well , if you need more let me know

Edited by TomKabs93
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Noooooooooooooooooo!

I will literally cry if snes gets the spotlight in the documentary, it would be so unjust!

Don't worry bud....it's not going to be a "pro" snes documentary...he'll want to talk about everything. Even though you hate SNES....I still love you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't worry bud....it's not going to be a "pro" snes documentary...he'll want to talk about everything. Even though you hate SNES....I still love you.

Sorry hali you're the best, you're the reason I don't like bashing snes. But sometimes it still slips out :S

Why can't you be a gens guy, then you'd be perfect :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow. I'm not going to do a whole point-by-point thing (see posts by "trudatman" for full analysis of this stuff), but I'd like to highlight the lies or deceptive claims:

Noooooooooooooooooo!

Gens is wayyyyy better, snap out of it haha.

- The ways of scoring are way more limited in snes compared to gens

- The competitive community has always been quite a lot smaller in snes compared to gens (there's way more gens leagues, and they're much more decorated. There hasn't been a snes league in ages other than classic, while gdl, blitz, and many small gens leagues are still going strong).

- Snes community is (arguably, I suppose) weaker than gens, because Bo was able to switch to snes after only playing gens and win SDL (and classic too? I forget). Nobody has been able to make the jump from snes to gens and find real success

- Sound is awful compared to gens lol. Music sounds wayyy worse in snes, and also things like the crowd being awkwardly silent

- Trudatman is snes, enough said

- You can't press hook to get up in gens like you can instantly in snes. Seriously, what's the point in hitting if they can get right back up (and if timed right they hook you!). Punished for making a successful check.

- Gens is more flexible with editing. Like having the programs Nose and Eare and stuff (ie. you can't edit center ice logos in snes)

- Everyone can check everyone in snes. This allows much less depth than gens. As matchups have much more variety when certain players counter others, and others counter them.

- Every f****** shot hits the post in snes. That's not even fun!! It's totally random

- Passing takes less skill in snes because it's way too easy. You can argue that gens passing sucks because many guys fumble it or miss it, but the more you play the more you realize that you can move the receiver a little to receive passes better. This in turn makes passing attributes much more important, Gretzky really can pass better than the rest

- People will argue that they have instant manual goalie in snes, and gens is delayed. While this is true, the goalie control delay adds a ton of depth to gens. It has become an art in the competitive community. You really have to manage your defense and goaltending well. This creates so many mindgames as you have to predict how they're going to try to score earlier.

Got a little help from Plabax with these hehe

I will literally cry if snes gets the spotlight in the documentary, it would be so unjust!

So much more as well , if you need more let me know

keep spouting the lies to newcomers to try to convince them of what you believe. keep twisting the truth to fit your agenda. be sure to accuse me of similar acts. be sure to eschew logic for passion. be mean to those on the other side. use your main tool of ridicule, making YOURSELF seem ridiculous.

if you put this energy into doing something constructive, you could potentially benefit the community. or just keep calling me names at every chance; that's worthwhile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel SNES has more of an "arcade game" feel. It just feels easier skating, passing the puck, and shooting. It's more "fun" for me. The one thing I like better in Genesis is the goalie control, SNES GC sucks. And I do agree with TomKabs, I've hit more posts in one game on SNES than I ever had playing Genesis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel SNES has more of an "arcade game" feel. It just feels easier skating, passing the puck, and shooting. It's more "fun" for me. The one thing I like better in Genesis is the goalie control, SNES GC sucks. And I do agree with TomKabs, I've hit more posts in one game on SNES than I ever had playing Genesis.

Interesting, for me the Genesis version is more arcadish than the SNES version. When playing the Genesis version, I score slappers goals pretty easily with simple pressing the shoot button, scoring with slappers in SNES version is about right timing and aiming (that's imo the reason why Genesis players think it is almost impossible to score with slappers on SNES, they play the SNES version in the same way they do with Genesis and it does not work). Goalkeepers are retarded in Genesis version imo, they sometimes skate around the goal like crazy, SNES goalies are less active waiting for a human player to control them, which is what I prefer. I would not call passing more easier but more accurate in SNES, it should be like that, we control NHL players and they have to have good passing skills.Same can be said about overall control, SNES players are better skaters, Genesis players are extremely clumsy. It's true hitting the post is pretty common in SNES version but in average I hit the post around three times, maybe less, in a 5 mins period game.

It's a game from 4th generation era and has its bugs and mistakes, just like the Genesis version. Both versions are pretty far from true ice-hockey simulation and bashing one version for having bugs and mistakes is funny when the other version has plenty of stuff to criticize as well.

Edited by DominikJagr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

since the posts issue seems to be getting traction, please consider that real players in real games hit the posts, sometimes multiple times per game. three posts for one team is more common than no posts, I figure. the Genesis essentially has no posts. you SEE one, but you can't hit it. if you hit the outside of the post, the puck goes in the net. for SNES, if you hit the outside of the post, you hear a big CLUNK sound and the puck deflects away in one of a wide variety of ways. Genesis players think the post-hitting is weird because their version doesn't have it. it's totally normal. sometimes you hit the post. get mad about the simulation of reality. complain that it should be more like a cheesy arcade game.

Edited by tru
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll get to responding to dominik's crazy post later. For now I'll just respond to this last wonderful opinion. DUDE, 'simulation' or 'realism' is not something to praise or slam. This became apparent to me when thinking about SNES posts. They take away fun! They are totally random! They make an already boring game less skillful. 3 posts avg means each team will basically usually get 1-5 posts a game. If it happened on random shots then it wouldn't be such a big deal, but in both versions, random shots don't go in. There are certain ways of scoring on cpu goalies, pretty much set in stone. THE THING IS, this means that snes posts don't just happen on scoring chances, but on shots that would otherwise be 100% good goals! This can't really be argued either, it's obvious. You can deke the goalie with one of the 2 methods of scoring in the game, and he can be across the net, and you'll hit an open net post. I've seen this on vid, and experienced it myself.

Is that realistic?? NO

Is that fun? NO

SNES game equation for player A vs B:

Total goals for player A = Amount of deserved goals - Random number between 1 and 5

Total goals for player B = Amount of deserved goals - Random number between 1 and 5

Games that are so influenced by luck are insane. This isn't even factoring the other cases of momentum that are obviously in the game. At least gens' momentum can't be quantified that easily haha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While tere may be random posts on snes, there seems to be a lot of random goals in genesis too. For example I just downloaded a genesis emulator and NHL 94. 1st period I took a slapper from just over the red line. It hit the glass and bounced off the goalie's back for a goal! Did I deserve it? Heck no! Lol

Anyway I might play a few more genesis games to see what the fuss is about. To me it looks like nhlpa 93 on SNES with smoother frame rate, the addition of one timers, and minus fighting. The sound effects are the same as 93! It's kinda cool that way but some of the sounds are odd like the thud when the puck hits the boards. Gens 94 feels kinda like snes 93, whereas the snes 94 version feels like a more polished version despite the choppier frame rate.

This makes me want to play NHL 95 PC again. That was another cool version of this game..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never found the issue of SNES posts to be problematic honestly. I've had plenty of games where I've hit zero posts. Just like in real life you'll have some games where a guy is gonna be on fire and will never miss his shots and in other games, that same player is gonna hit a post or three or just miss the net all together. I fail to see the logic of the argument in this case...and certainly having a few posts in some games is a whole lot better than having barely any posts at all because it's a vital part of hockey, like it or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow, that "argument" is baffling. I literally cannot understand this guy's mindset. "I deserved a goal there and instead I hit the post! it's not fair!" whaaaaa? here's a tissue. call your momma. suck your thumb and cry. posts happen. except in the Genesis version of NHL '94, in which case they count as goals. I just cannot understand how posts in a hockey game make you mad. "but I hit the 'score' button and didn't score!" whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

regarding the PC games: yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the Genesis version, shots that are just about to hit the post often warp into the net. I suspect this was a conscious decision based on the developers thinking there were too many posts, while the SNES devs didn't bother. In the end it's really a weakness in how the shot aim system works in both games, it's not like a bell curve or something like that.

Personally, I don't really think the amount of posts is a pro or con, it's just a thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tk is not whining, but pointing to why he prefers to play genesis.

This is not vs CPU where you need something to make it entertaining.

We are discussing head to head.

And the argument that luck does not decide the victor of a close match appeals to a lot of competitive guys.

I can't imagine how you take tgat as whining, other than your obvious troll tendencies.

I personally feel gens plays much more like an arcade feel, but because the rules of engagement never change, and are so evenly intense, you get a great back & forth competitive head to head game w/ a hockey style theme.

Snes I never liked the feel of the goalie when I had him, and wasn't a fan as much of removal of blowing a slapper by a guy. If you switch to goalie, you can stop this, but it's one more strategy you have to defend against.

Snes had much more back passing and longer range one timers that do go in so it's not a "pure" game by any means. Plenty of bugs.

The fact that tgere are two games to choose from from the same year and most of us all agree we find one or the other superior to all versions before or after that is the most amazing part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, wasn't referring to auto goalie, was talking about manual goalie. In Genesis it feels like the goalie skates, in SNES the goalie just slides back and forth like I'm playing foosball. Skating is def better in SNES. I do agree there are more fluke goals in Genesis, Smoz describes one of the reasons why. I think it's great that both games have their differences, it makes for 2 different experiences of the same game and the need to have different strategies depending on the system you are playing. SNES always has a special place in my heart since that's the one I grew up playing nonstop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to hit a post in Gens version, you can easily hit it by shooting top right corner of the goal (up&left when doing offence down) for example, easy to do after the play has stopped and the goalie animation is not following you anymore. The goalie post sound is there and there is some physics involved in the rebound too. For some reason it was decided to not be included in the game or to become ultra rare. Like TK said the goal does like to suck in some goals that would sometimes look to miss with the shot trajectionaries, it has the tendency to rather give a goal then, but it's the same always for both. Learning the goal suckage area will help you score with some pass shots for example, this is very important. I think the goal suckage was rather added to it than to keep the posts, it is possible that this was intended. We're not playing a simulation so it does not bother me at all.

Another thing I have to mention here for the benefit of the Gens system is that it's the universal engine. I myself come from PC platform, for me the NHL'94 game was called "NHL Hockey", but it's with the exact engine that the Sega one has (I think it derives from NHL'93 actually, because it didn't have GC and the pass shots felt a bit different from angles, but it also had MANUAL aim on onetimers, which is a huge plus over Gens version ++ league systems of 84 games and so on with multiple human players and player trading in leagues, own statistics). On PC platform players still enjoyed that great Gens engine in PC NHL'95 (Bob Kudelski did seem to mention this). I would say that when people think of NHL'94 more people will be more familiar with the Gens engine, it goes past to just Gens vs Snes, but both are great hockey games.

A pissing match between the two is the last thing we need, but this is an excellent thread to the documentary as it has to be able to go through the different versions and their differences. It's a legendary game on both/all platforms and I doubt we will ever fully come to concensus that will unite the both communities fully under the same platform. =)

Edited by Depch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I just played 4 Genesis matches (5 mins periods)...and my opponent (CPU) hits the post two times (during the game, not after the play was stopped situation Depch is referring to). Few hours earlier I made my SNES slapshots record, four slapshots goals (Chelios 3, Noonan 1) in 10 mins period game against Buffalo (Fuhr is one of the best goalie in the game) out of ~20 attempts. Btw, I scored only one slapshot goal in those Genesis matches.

No slappers in SNES and no posts in Genesis :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 1 Anonymous, 80 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
×
×
  • Create New...