SNES VS SEGA NHL 94 HOT DEBATE

[Freydey]

After playing some snes again.......you guys are nuts. Gens is much much much much much better.

[halifax]

After playing some snes again.......you guys are nuts. Gens is much much much much much better.

please tell me you're gonna finish your season bud.

[Freydey]

of course, 94 remains 94

[halfMANhalfDONUT]

I started on Sega CD, then went to Genesis, finally ending up on SNES. I greatly prefer SNES. The framerate doesn't bother me, and I think some of the things like hitting the post are much more realistic than Genesis where it never really seems to happen. I think the sounds/checking/graphics are better in SNES (larger sprites!), plus the defense controls and goalie button. I think the goalies play better in genesis, but there are pass-shots that always go in to kind of ruin it. Snes is harder to pass and setup. The guys seem much rougher in snes in general.

I think my main issue with genesis right now is that the multiplayer is abysmal. Using the kaillera thing to connect is a joke. I've had issues with someone just down the street from me using it. The multiplayer in Zsnes is 1029102910209x better, and so I only play snes online anymore.

Edit: I don't know how I forgot the horrible boards sound in genesis. What the hell is that even supposed to be?

Edited October 25, 2013 by marchawg

[smozoma]

On controller responsiveness, passes on the Genesis definitely happen pretty much instantly. But player skating changes are slow (accelerating, turning..).

I've often said that video games are a lot like the guy equivalent for what dancing is for girls. Going on that analogy, who's to say that one style of dance is better than another, when the goal is to have fun, and fun is a subjective thing?

Playing on the Genesis makes me laugh, and that's fun for me. I don't care that my passing success rate isn't 90% or my players turn like underpowered hovercraft.

[TomKabs93]

I don't understand how hitting like 10 posts a game is more realistic. I'd rather have slightly less than the real life average in genesis than the 5x real life average that I snes. not to mention that realism isn't important, hitting a million posts is no fun lol.

another thing I still don't understand is how people still think pass shots ruin fun or are cheap. that's like complaining that dunking ruined basketball. that's like saying curved blades made hockey worse. or like saying wraparound a are cheap in real hockey because you're behind the goalie or something. to me (and how I think everyone should think) pass shots just add another dimension to scoring. they are totally saveable like everyhing in this game is.

it's just a skill to learn that adds depth to the game. but as I was typin this I realized that all the people who complain about pass shots coincidentally are the ones who aren't good at them lol. just practice it and your game will be that much better.

p.s. gens has like 18 ways to score, snes has like 5

[halifax]

p.s. gens has like 18 ways to score, snes has like 5

I'd have to understand this comment a little better bud. there's slapshots, wristers, one timers and dekes...that's 4 for each side....genesis has pass shots...5-4 gens....what's left?

[LA Robbie]

I hate this debate so much. It's like xbox vs PS, star Trek vs Next Generation, Blondes vs Brunettes. Proper school playground stuff.

Loads of people love the SNES version: It's obviously great. Loads of people love the Gens version: It's obviously great.

Just depends on ur preference I guess but to suggest that any 20 year old game still being played by loads of people today isn't worth playin is just stupid.

They're both great in their own ways. Get over it

[trudatman]

I often play twenty-minute periods. I think I've once had a game with ten shots hitting the post. usually it happens twice or so per game, which is pretty normal for an average NHL game. granted that's more than eighty times the number of posts hit in the average Genesis game that I've experienced. the Genesis goal is like a vacuum or it's like the posts are made of razor wire and shots must go on one side or the other.

now... to that other li- uh, point:

1. crash

2. deke and crash

3. deke and shoot

4. slapshot

5. cut-across

6. onetimer

7. pass

8. wrister

9. floater

10. deflection

11. bank shot

12. roller

13. fumble

14. wrap-aound

15. slam dunk

16. dribbler

17. tuck-in

which ten of those does Genesis have that SNES doesn't? was I hallucinating when I scored with each of those? what is the one I forgot that is exclusive to the Genesis?

cuckoo!

Edited October 26, 2013 by trudatman

[halfMANhalfDONUT]

Don't get me wrong, you can pass-shot and score in SNES as well, it's just tougher than Genesis. I don't think it's cheap or ruins the game unless it goes in EVERY time. SNES, I think in general, is tougher to score on. Just my 2c.

Anyway, I'm glad people enjoy Genesis still. I think these discussions are fun for getting a full view of both platforms. It gives me a chance to go in and rediscover some of the simple joys I take for granted while I'm playing.

like beating the hell out of Calgary with 4 replaced NJ starters!

[TomKabs93]

ya I'm a fan of this discussion. there's no animosity so what's it hurting? I'll type up my response to goals in gens vs goals in snes later on

[kingraph]

After playing some snes games again recently, I'd actually argue the control responses are slower than Genesis. For example, I have no trouble executing a close range onetimer in Genesis, but I've noticed I need to be further apart in SNES. Also, I can't deke back and forth as quickly in SNES vs Genesis. I'll try to put a video of what I'm talking about to help explain my latter example.

This is what I was referring to. Notice in GENS when I deke like crazy back and forth the player basically moves the same way. In SNES, it tends to freeze up. Again, just a difference, not saying one is better than the other, but I don't understand the "delay" that trudat references. In fact, I find it the opposite.

[trudatman]

I'm not referencing frame rate as much as a disconnect between which button is pressed and when the action occurs. I don't see presented the logical point that the delay is like trying to nearly anything in real life on ice, but I'd be inclined to lend merit to such a claim. maybe it's a weird disconnect between varied Genesis hardware and myself and my friends, but I suspect it's a real difference that Genesis-bred players are accustomed to. there isn't nearly the sense of control. the situational realism wins, too. while I'm generally accepting of the politics of Genesis popularity on this site, I crave a strong presence of players of the third-party voters. let's get some serious content from the CD and PC folks!

[trudatman]

....gens has like 18 ways to score, snes has like 5....

....which....does Genesis have that SNES doesn't?...

I came back to this thread to see if this question was ever answered. it was not.

[Freydey]

This is what I was referring to. Notice in GENS when I deke like crazy back and forth the player basically moves the same way. In SNES, it tends to freeze up. Again, just a difference, not saying one is better than the other, but I don't understand the "delay" that trudat references. In fact, I find it the opposite.

this is so true

merry christmas

[jackandjose]

I came back to this thread to see if this question was ever answered. it was not.

Can you score with the slap deke in snes?

[jackandjose]

Slap deke

[trudatman]

of course. that's just "the move" with a different type of shot. you could deke and pass, deke and toss, deke and wristshot, deke and slapshot....

Edited December 25, 2013 by trudatman

[TomKabs93]

I came back to this thread to see if this question was ever answered. it was not.

crap I forgot about this. thanks for reminding me. hopefully I remember to think about and answer this sometime soon.

you're wrong about slap deke not being unique on gens. in gens it causes the goalie to instantly do a save animation similar to the crease cut goalie animation. in snes the goalies don't freeze up to a slap deke like they do in gens, so it can really count as a way to score in snes

Edited December 25, 2013 by TomKabs93

[trudatman]

if ways to score don't count because they are only 10% likely to go in (on SNES, as apposed to 85% likely to be goals on the Genesis), then you'd get to exclusively count lots of cheap crap that only works at a very high percentage on the lesser system. pass shots, faceoff passes through the five hole, unimpressive slapshots that seem to pass through the flimsy netminder, and a host of other moderately unfair crap goals that are almost sure things on one system but are statistically accurate simulations of varied shooting percentages on the underdog system. so, you are claiming that because slapshots only work on the SNES something like 4% of the time they don't count, right? nevermind that are possible, it's the fact that they aren't gimmes, right? are you wearing your clown shoes while you post? are you one of those guys who complains that more than one shot off the post per game is absurd? "on the Genesis only one shot every five games hits the post without hitting twine or the boards behind the net. therefore it is ridiculous that the Super Nintendo version allows for shots to hit the post and bounce back in front of the net, sometimes even multiple times per game just like in real hockey!" that's what this "only a simulatory accurate number of shots go in on the SNES, not a inflated beyond realism number like on the Genesis" line of suggestions seems like. does it not seem like debating an unbelievable line of claims because of prejudice?

[smozoma]

I'm gonna say the slap deke is just bad goalie AI

I didn't know the keg toss was possible on SNES, but it is:

real life keg toss:

[trudatman]

I figure there are a lot of quirky aspects of the puck physics you don't see on the SNES due mostly to not playing much SNES. the physics are great. I've played thousands of games and I still have fairly frequent moments of "wow" from the puck action showing weird but very much believable things. Smith may not have seen the puck-in-pants goal before, but....

[PlabaxV2]

This discussion isn't going to go anywhere if trudatman keeps twisting and turning everything around.

It is so clear to anyone that TK was saying the SNES version doesn't really have the "slap deke" because the affect the deke has on GENS is clear enough for it to be considered "unique".

trudatman purposely misinterpreted TK's comment to set up the stage for SNES superiority, just look at all the exaggerations and things he pulls out of his ass to make the SNES look good. He listed three examples of "very high percentage" plays on GENS.. One of which I'm certain that NO player here has seen more than 10 times, and one that has random negative adjectives that falsely describe the slapshot system.

To make things worse he backs it up by saying that the SNES is "statistically accurate", which is obviously NOT true.. It's just so ridiculous how he can write paragraphs and paragaphs about NHL '94 but none of the information is ever correct.

[kingraph]

if ways to score don't count because they are only 10% likely to go in (on SNES, as apposed to 85% likely to be goals on the Genesis), then you'd get to exclusively count lots of cheap crap that only works at a very high percentage on the lesser system. pass shots, faceoff passes through the five hole, unimpressive slapshots that seem to pass through the flimsy netminder, and a host of other moderately unfair crap goals that are almost sure things on one system but are statistically accurate simulations of varied shooting percentages on the underdog system. so, you are claiming that because slapshots only work on the SNES something like 4% of the time they don't count, right? nevermind that are possible, it's the fact that they aren't gimmes, right? are you wearing your clown shoes while you post? are you one of those guys who complains that more than one shot off the post per game is absurd? "on the Genesis only one shot every five games hits the post without hitting twine or the boards behind the net. therefore it is ridiculous that the Super Nintendo version allows for shots to hit the post and bounce back in front of the net, sometimes even multiple times per game just like in real hockey!" that's what this "only a simulatory accurate number of shots go in on the SNES, not a inflated beyond realism number like on the Genesis" line of suggestions seems like. does it not seem like debating an unbelievable line of claims because of prejudice?

Basically yes. We don't play this game to watch "statistically accurate simulations" of hockey, we play because it's an entertaining and challenging game!

So regardless of what is possible, I believe what TK, and other Genesis players who find the SNES version less interesting, mean by "ways to score" is how goals are actually scored in competitive play and how you have to defend them.

Without getting into every single way of scoring, the two examples of slapshot and slap deke (glorified crease cut, imo ;-) ) highlight the point. When a slapshot is attempted in Genesis, you have to respect the attempt by switching to manual goalie. Slapshots are rarely (if ever) attemptes in SNES. And if they are, it's not a play you need to defend.

So what that one example does is limit the offensive options in SNES compared to Genesis. Same logic for slap deke.

Interestingly this comes up in the results from the attribute surveys I did a little while back. I will write it up soon.

Anyway, hope that makes sense. I'd argue the slapshot is NOT a scoring method in SNES, as meant in these comparisons.

[trudatman]

purposely misinterpreted, eh? wow.

the way the goalie reacts is the key? I was thinking the ability of the play to lead to a goal was the key. twisting and turning? seems like the other side's modus operandi. nobody's seen that particular play ten times? we all saw it ten times in the video and I've seen it many times in actual play (yes, I sometimes play the other versions). does the replacement phrase of "more statistically accurate" fit your needs for my participation in discussions around here? be sure to keep me posted on how I'm allowed to post around here. nice paragraphs of twisting things around, though, by the way.

edit: regarding "as meant in these comparisons," I am curious to know how likely a shot needs to be to go in before it "counts" as a possible way to score.

Edited December 26, 2013 by trudatman

[IceStorm70]

Hehe, i love Kings reference to the slap deke as glorified cross crease. Sounds amazingly similar to me calling pass shots cheese.....until i learned how to do them

[trudatman]

well, I consider most deke-then-shot types to be essentially the same, but I guess each thing you do after the deke can be considered separately. then, we can go further to clarify pass types before the deke before the shot types. were defensemen involved? a different thing. how about a pass from a goaltender? different! it seems like this thread is doomed to the standard popularity contest and the definitions that support it.

[TomKabs93]

thank you plabax . if it wasn't for you I would have fed trulytwistedman. you summed up my slap deke point very nicely

'statistically accurate simulations of varied shooting percentages' lollll. if you've played 1000s of games like you say, you should know that 94 isn't anything like real hockey when it comes to shooting percentage. the goalies react the same way almost every time in 94. it can't be a realistic shooting percentage because of this. I guess with your skill level you get realistic shooting percentages though. 20% shooting percentage is considered great in real hockey. I guess you give yourself a free cheat day on your diet because you shot 20% in a 94 game. let me know the next time an NHL team gets 50% shooting percentage in a game. against a good player, shooting 50% is nothing ridiculous

edit: oops didn't see there was like 5 replies before this already so this is a little late

Edited December 26, 2013 by TomKabs93

[TomKabs93]

Basically yes. We don't play this game to watch "statistically accurate simulations" of hockey, we play because it's an entertaining and challenging game!

So regardless of what is possible, I believe what TK, and other Genesis players who find the SNES version less interesting, mean by "ways to score" is how goals are actually scored in competitive play and how you have to defend them.

Without getting into every single way of scoring, the two examples of slapshot and slap deke (glorified crease cut, imo ;-) ) highlight the point. When a slapshot is attempted in Genesis, you have to respect the attempt by switching to manual goalie. Slapshots are rarely (if ever) attemptes in SNES. And if they are, it's not a play you need to defend.

So what that one example does is limit the offensive options in SNES compared to Genesis. Same logic for slap deke.

Interestingly this comes up in the results from the attribute surveys I did a little while back. I will write it up soon.

Anyway, hope that makes sense. I'd argue the slapshot is NOT a scoring method in SNES, as meant in these comparisons.

wow great reply! if I read this before I posted my last post I wouldn't have submitted it lol

[trudatman]

okey-dokey. thanks for the chat, guys. I've reached the point where it's just too ridiculous to respond to. maybe later.