McMikey

The Toronto NHL '94 Tournament Registration is now OPEN!

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Tru, you are by far the most vocal. Will we be seeing you in TO?

nope. extra broke and 650+ miles away. sounds like a blast, though. have fun and miss me.

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Right now with our math and using 8 SNES and 8 Gens for 128 players (each playing a guarantee 3 games) we are showing with a start time of 9am the final game with the last two will start around 8pm and play for a better part of an hour. so that a full 12 hours of game play plus we are planing an after party for the survivors. We want to stick to that 12 hour day because frankly there are a lot of people that are working to make this event happen and they will have to be there early to set up and stay later to take down. If more people sign up we will expand the space and add more systems to make it all happen in that time frame.

Can you give the postulates to your math? Namely game times or series? I think you should be able to get 5 games per hour per system. 12 hours is 60 games, 8 systems is 480 losses. So if it is 64 teams per system, I think it would be possible to do like a quintuple or sextuple elimination tournament.

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I thought I posted this somewhere already but perhaps not.

Tournament Format:

1.8 groups of up to 8 players in each group will play a triple elimination format on Sega or SNES consoles with the top two finishers in each group qualifying for the final round.

2.The final round will consist of 16 players playing in a double elimination format. The winner will be the champion for their console.

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Can you give the postulates to your math? Namely game times or series? I think you should be able to get 5 games per hour per system. 12 hours is 60 games, 8 systems is 480 losses. So if it is 64 teams per system, I think it would be possible to do like a quintuple or sextuple elimination tournament.

It's going by 4 games per hour. 5 is pretty tight. Something's gonna go wrong, so better to finish early than not finish at all :)

  • Qualification tourney: 5.25 hours. If we have 16 consoles running, it's about 5.25 hours to do 16 groups of 8, triple-elim (20-22 games per system/group to do an 8 team triple-elim).
  • Presentations: +30 mins = 5.75 hr. With some NHL and EA people probably coming, I assume there will be some speeches/presentations? Maybe show off some modded ROMs with new rosters?
  • Final 16: +3 hours = 8.75 hr. Double-elim will take 8-9 rounds or 2+ hours, but for the last few games, I suspect they'll be played 1 at a time so everyone can watch. So that brings it up to almost 9 hours.
  • Presentations: +30 mins = 9.25 hr. Another round of speeches/presentations, why not.
  • 2-3 hours unused. If this isn't used for expanding the number of players in the tourney if there is enough demand, may I suggest: 2on2!!!

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  • 2-3 hours unused. If this isn't used for expanding the number of players in the tourney if there is enough demand, may I suggest: 2on2!!!

Thanks for the math bud! That even helped me focus on the project!

Can someone mod some 2on2 Carts for us? I know KingRaph has one, does anyone else have some. I can't guarantee that there would be time on game day for official 2on2 but what would you recommend for a mini tourney lets say 10 groups of 2. I may be able to host something smaller (No charge) for the Friday night of the 11th at a pub.

Can you give me a little background on the 2on2... What system/ rules etc

Edited by McMikey

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It's going by 4 games per hour. 5 is pretty tight. Something's gonna go wrong, so better to finish early than not finish at all :)

  • Qualification tourney: 5.25 hours. If we have 16 consoles running, it's about 5.25 hours to do 16 groups of 8, triple-elim (20-22 games per system/group to do an 8 team triple-elim).

Indeed. A game takes about 10-11 minutes(longer if there's OT), and players will be getting in and out of seats constantly, setting their lines etc. We want to make sure there's a buffer.

The qualification part of the tournament that smoz has here is based on one group playing on one console. However the tournament, will be one group played on two consoles. It stretches things out a bit longer (45 minutes) as there will be some instances where only one console in the group will be in use. So 4 groups of gens and 4 groups of snes will play during the morning and 4 groups of gens and 4 groups of snes will play early afternoon (again based on 64 players for each console). The reason for this is that we need volunteers to track and input scores/teams that played/coin toss winners for each game and have referees. Some community members have volunteered to help with this, but they will also be playing in the tournament. I want to make sure they can focus on their games when their group is playing and not run into conflicts, that would likely happen if it was one group per console.

*To anyone that is coming, please send me a pm or email, if you would like to help during the tournament. :)

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Is there a point why snes and gens winners can't just be titled as the winners on those platforms? I don't see the necessity to crown a one winner out of the two systems. They're both titled NHL94, both are about ice hockey, but in the end they are different games. Both of these platforms also have their own separate moneypool from the signups. I can see it tempting to create out only one pool to make it look bigger, but I think it's stretching out.

There are a few problems playing on a 3rd platform. The PC version of NHL Hockey, equilevant to 94 is based more on NHL93 and does not have a manual goalie for example, this would be a bit letdown and dumbing the game down from the consoles, I do not see it fitting to define a true winner, should you guys still want to combine gens & snes.

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The PC version of NHL Hockey, equilevant to 94 is based more on NHL93 and does not have a manual goalie for example,

Interesting, I did not know that. thanks for the info.

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NHL 95 on PC is pretty sweet and seems like a hybrid of NHL 94 for SNES and GENS. Perhaps that game could be played. Just a thought.

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NHL 95 on PC is pretty sweet and seems like a hybrid of NHL 94 for SNES and GENS. Perhaps that game could be played. Just a thought.

And while I get that idea, that game still hasn't got a manual goalie. If I recall it right NHL96 was the first one in PC:s to have one. Also it would be quite comical to have a NHL94 tournament only to end it with deciding a winner in NHL95. =)

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Is there a point why snes and gens winners can't just be titled as the winners on those platforms? I don't see the necessity to crown a one winner out of the two systems. They're both titled NHL94, both are about ice hockey, but in the end they are different games. Both of these platforms also have their own separate moneypool from the signups. I can see it tempting to create out only one pool to make it look bigger, but I think it's stretching out.

There are a few problems playing on a 3rd platform. The PC version of NHL Hockey, equilevant to 94 is based more on NHL93 and does not have a manual goalie for example, this would be a bit letdown and dumbing the game down from the consoles, I do not see it fitting to define a true winner, should you guys still want to combine gens & snes.

A little history on the event. 1st off we are making a documentary on the subject, what better way to end and film the movie then having everyone in the same room at the same time doing something amazing. So if there was no movie there would be no event. That out of the way... I'm a Genesis guy and by saying that (and not following the NHL94.com forums until last year) I thought the Sega ruled NHL 94 with an iron fist (I was wrong).

My first idea when coming up with this tournament was of course it would be Gens only show (easy, simple, one winner). This changed hugely for me on January 10 of this year when I met halifax and the crew in Saskatoon where we played in a live SNES tournament. My eyes where open to the world of Super Mario's version of '94. Now the Doc involved into having a mini Gens vs SNES battle. I have had sit down interviews with almost 60 people now ranging from "never played" to "I made the game". You will have to wait to see the movie on what a have found out on the history of each version and why they are the way they are. But at its core Its a game played by people. The doc follows the human aspect.

So put your directors hat on for a second... you have interviews with people saying "SNES makes the Genesis version look like a kids toy" or "I wouldn't play the SNES version if it where the last game on earth" The audience will need some type of closure. imagine if at the end of King of Kong Billy Mitchell and Steve Wiebe just stopped looked at each other and said we are both are the best and *slow motion high five, fade to black, roll credits*. We need a solid ending to the story that isn't a grade 6 science fair when everyone gets a ribbon. This is the problem that I got my self into, its my fault. So we need a winner not a tie, there is no steaks in that fight and there will be no closure.

So back to the top. There would not be a tournament with out the Doc and the Doc needs a winner. The NHL playoffs gives out trophies for each conference. Think of it like that the Genesis is the Eastern conference and the SNES is the West. They don't play each other that much during the normal season. Each conference plays by the same rules but the game play and style can differ greatly. So the winner of the Gens gets the Price of Wales trophy and SNES get their Clarence S. Campbell bowl. They brush off there differences and the play for the Stanley Cup... As Hockey Fans we are all wired to think that way. So yes there will be a Stanley Cup Winner... We will not be able to please everyone in fact it seems to me that its the people who are not coming that have the biggest problems... but all is not lost we are still looking for suggestions on what is the best of our worst ideas :)

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So put your directors hat on for a second... you have interviews with people saying "SNES makes the Genesis version look like a kids toy" or "I wouldn't play the SNES version if it where the last game on earth" The audience will need some type of closure. imagine if at the end of King of Kong Billy Mitchell and Steve Wiebe just stopped looked at each other and said we are both are the best and *slow motion high five, fade to black, roll credits*. We need a solid ending to the story that isn't a grade 6 science fair when everyone gets a ribbon. This is the problem that I got my self into, its my fault. So we need a winner not a tie, there is no steaks in that fight and there will be no closure.

So back to the top. There would not be a tournament with out the Doc and the Doc needs a winner. The NHL playoffs gives out trophies for each conference. Think of it like that the Genesis is the Eastern conference and the SNES is the West. They don't play each other that much during the normal season. Each conference plays by the same rules but the game play and style can differ greatly. So the winner of the Gens gets the Price of Wales trophy and SNES get their Clarence S. Campbell bowl. They brush off there differences and the play for the Stanley Cup... As Hockey Fans we are all wired to think that way. So yes there will be a Stanley Cup Winner... We will not be able to please everyone in fact it seems to me that its the people who are not coming that have the biggest problems... but all is not lost we are still looking for suggestions on what is the best of our worst ideas :)

I know this is mostly happening because of the documentary and that is greatly respected, but documentary does not need to play any hand in the tournament or it's rules. At best this documentary can give birth to a great tradition of NHL'94 live action each year. How cool would that be. I was not ditching out the documentary project or anything you guys have done, I am just pointing out possible errors and different views.

I disagree where there has to be a one winner from both platforms. The closure does not need to be a one guy winning it all, there is closure enough on getting the winners on each platform. People understand that well enough that they're separate games. But visioning one guy as a champ and all, yea people love that stuff, this feels like it would be more serving the documentary than the tournament. I'm not coming around as I am a PC first player, always played with keyboard, which is not possible there, so my say does not need to be that heavily noted, but it's still a case for other people. I wouldn't like that as a tradition, should the live games each year become an event. Maybe have the champs play a few between themselves, but it doesn't have to be official?

I understand the stanley cup vision of the two conferences, I just think the games are so much more different than the gamestyles in western or eastern conference, that's still the same game.

If it needs to be in because of the documentary, sure. But should this action become a yearly event, I think it's a bad idea to mix the different platforms, unheard of in competitive scenery of games.

Edited by Depch

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If it needs to be in because of the documentary, sure. But should this action become a yearly event, I think it's a bad idea to mix the different platforms, unheard of in competitive scenery of games.

We are already laying the ground work for next year. I agree totally with your point.. thats why I said its my fault for getting us into this logistic/moral/opinion mess. So as a thought process for a second and think of the systems as secondary and the goal is to find the best person at NHL '94 as a whole (SNES mixed in with Gens). I'm not saying its right, i'm saying if you put the person 1st how would you (or anyone) pick that person

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We are already laying the ground work for next year. I agree totally with your point.. thats why I said its my fault for getting us into this logistic/moral/opinion mess. So as a thought process for a second and think of the systems as secondary and the goal is to find the best person at NHL '94 as a whole (SNES mixed in with Gens). I'm not saying its right, i'm saying if you put the person 1st how would you (or anyone) pick that person

Do what you have to do, but make the tournament skip that mixing in the future years, it doesn't belong in competitive gaming. They're different games that share the same title. :)

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Do what you have to do, but make the tournament skip that mixing in the future years, it doesn't belong in competitive gaming. They're different games that share the same title. :)

I can't agree with you MORE!!!! From now on SNES and Gens Tourneys must stay away from each other by at least 1 province or state!!!!!!!!!!!

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People understand that well enough that they're separate games. But visioning one guy as a champ and all, yea people love that stuff, this feels like it would be more serving the documentary than the tournament.

Yes you guys understand very vey well the differences in the two games but the public or even big NHL '94 fans that are not on the forums have no clue... I know this because i'm studying it like a mad man. The differences will not be able to come across on film as the games are just to similar looking, we can only take peoples word for it. Think as the doc and tourney as the same thing with the same goal. You guys are hardcores and get stuck in ways of thinking, I understand that, again i'm studying that phenomenon.
NHL '94 doesn't have a big enough following for tournaments to get any bigger then a few guys at a bar. To make NHL '94 bigger and more popular movies like this have to be good and be seen by as many people as possible. What you are saying is right but the general public doesn't know that. I worked for 6 years straight with a camera following me around everyday for the tv show Ice Pilots I know very well the deference between the hardcores and the casual viewers. I'm done venting lol as you can imagine we have a lot of stuff on our plates hahaha. But I don't enjoy answering these questions and because i'm tasked on making the story of NHL '94 and if the hardcores can't all agree on the small things I mite just have to delete my NHL94.com account when the movie comes out hahahaha. You can send personal hate mail to
Mikey McBryan
1000 Buffalo Drive
Hay River NT
X0E 0R9
hahahahahaha oh Mondays
Edited by McMikey

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McMikey I think you took that way too personally. We all appreciate what you are doing, we know the Toronto tournament is only happening because of you and the documentary, I can't wait to watch it. Thank you for everything you are doing.

Was merely pointing out some logical flaws and caring for the future of NHL94 competitive gaming. I am very well aware of the problems of smaller game sceneries and their comp scenes, so doing it once if you vision it important for the project can be worth it, maybe it can carry on even as an unofficial finals between the gens & snes winners in the future. And I'm trying to be objective here, I think gens guys are on advantage here and I represent myself on that side.

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McMikey I think you took that way too personally. We all appreciate what you are doing, we know the Toronto tournament is only happening because of you and the documentary, I can't wait to watch it. Thank you for everything you are doing.

Was merely pointing out some logical flaws and caring for the future of NHL94 competitive gaming. I am very well aware of the problems of smaller game sceneries and their comp scenes, so doing it once if you vision it important for the project can be worth it, maybe it can carry on even as an unofficial finals between the gens & snes winners in the future. And I'm trying to be objective here, I think gens guys are on advantage here and I represent myself on that side.

Thanks bud, that means a lot :). I couldn't even come close to being able to do what i'm doing with out the awesome help from the NHL94.com community. I started out as an outsider and now I think I met more of you in person then anyone haha. True I do take things a little personal because I have so much at steak. But now this tread is becoming more of a therapy session, but where else can someone get help on a NHL '94 addiction lol.

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Oh on a side note as you may have guessed it, King of Kong is one of my favourite movies. I never knew I thing about Donkey Kong before and now i'm a huge fan of it and play it when i can. Its was such a great not only doc but a feature film. Some Donkey Kong hardcores made a doc call "The King of Con", taring apart the original movie. The Con movie wasn't to awful and I enjoyed watching it because I learned more of the real story, but it didn't make me hate the original movie like its was intended too, It only added to my new found love for DK. My point is that my movie will not be 100% bare bones facts there will be mistakes, there is no stopping that. But outside people will fall in love with the game and the will find this forum and learn more about the game and its rivalries over opinion and and fall in love with the game even more.

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Yes you guys understand very vey well the differences in the two games but the public or even big NHL '94 fans that are not on the forums have no clue... I know this because i'm studying it like a mad man. The differences will not be able to come across on film as the games are just to similar looking, we can only take peoples word for it. Think as the doc and tourney as the same thing with the same goal. You guys are hardcores and get stuck in ways of thinking, I understand that, again i'm studying that phenomenon.
NHL '94 doesn't have a big enough following for tournaments to get any bigger then a few guys at a bar. To make NHL '94 bigger and more popular movies like this have to be good and be seen by as many people as possible. What you are saying is right but the general public doesn't know that. I worked for 6 years straight with a camera following me around everyday for the tv show Ice Pilots I know very well the deference between the hardcores and the casual viewers. I'm done venting lol as you can imagine we have a lot of stuff on our plates hahaha. But I don't enjoy answering these questions and because i'm tasked on making the story of NHL '94 and if the hardcores can't all agree on the small things I mite just have to delete my NHL94.com account when the movie comes out hahahaha. You can send personal hate mail to
Mikey McBryan
1000 Buffalo Drive
Hay River NT
X0E 0R9
hahahahahaha oh Mondays

It's a real shame that people keep bashing or disagreeing with the way the tournament is set up. We are lucky to have a guy here (Mikey) who acknowledges the greatness of the game we all play and love, has the same passion for it as all of us, and is spending his own time and his own money to set something up that allows fans of the game to play against each other in person. He was nice enough to ask the community here for their input on how the tournament should be set up, and now that the info is out all the people coming out of the woodwork seem to have a problem with it.

It is so unfortunate you just can't please everyone in this world. If you don't like the way it is set up, please try and gather the funds and all the resources possible to make your own tournament. Leave Mikey alone, he's done a great job with his documentary and setting up this awesome tournament where we can call get together and play some awesome '94 on the real system the way most of us grew up playing it.

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Guys guys guy relax. If I could somehow win gens, I'd be ecstatic. It wouldn't bother me to play the snes winner after, because I'd know that I won what mattered to me (and all the hardcores). The winner just has to play the other winner with a for fun mentality, it's 100% fine.

The individual console brackets are the real competitive, fun challenge. The console vs console series is just a fun exhibition for the doc. Have fun with it

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Guys guys guy relax. If I could somehow win gens, I'd be ecstatic. It wouldn't bother me to play the snes winner after, because I'd know that I won what mattered to me (and all the hardcores). The winner just has to play the other winner with a for fun mentality, it's 100% fine.

The individual console brackets are the real competitive, fun challenge. The console vs console series is just a fun exhibition for the doc. Have fun with it

Thanks Chaos and TomKabs93 for translating my thoughts into "Hardcore" for me hahaha :) :)

Edited by McMikey

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Guys guys guy relax. If I could somehow win gens, I'd be ecstatic. It wouldn't bother me to play the snes winner after, because I'd know that I won what mattered to me (and all the hardcores). The winner just has to play the other winner with a for fun mentality, it's 100% fine.

The individual console brackets are the real competitive, fun challenge. The console vs console series is just a fun exhibition for the doc. Have fun with it

^^ THIS

Thanks for the math bud! That even helped me focus on the project!

Can someone mod some 2on2 Carts for us? I know KingRaph has one, does anyone else have some. I can't guarantee that there would be time on game day for official 2on2 but what would you recommend for a mini tourney lets say 10 groups of 2. I may be able to host something smaller (No charge) for the Friday night of the 11th at a pub.

Can you give me a little background on the 2on2... What system/ rules etc

I have one 2on2 cart and I should be able to bring another flash cart w/ 2on2 loaded. I only have one console and one 4-way adapter. Someone would have to bring another 4-way.

2on2 is a modded version of the game where only 2 forwards from each team are on the ice and goalies. So each of the forwards are controlled by a human. The teams and players have all been normalized to the same skill ratings and weight, same home/away advantages, etc, so it doesn't really matter which team you pick. Because it's just 2on2, it plays a little differently (for example you can hit B and get up right away with a poke check as there is no other player to switch to!) and takes a little getting used to the flow. The fun/addicting part is the chemistry you develop with your teammate. Or lack of chemistry sometimes, lol. I can only imagine this is 100x better live with everyone talking to each other (and NO LAG).

Honestly, I'd be happy just playing 2on2 exis all day/night, but if we did a tournament of some kind, I think it'd be best to have guys select teammates based on relative skill. Most leagues in the past have done it that way. Usually teams of 3 or 4 (or entire countries ala the USA vs Canada Summit Series) because it was hard to schedule games with 4 people at the same time. Given we will be live, 2-man teams will be enough! So maybe depending on who shows up, we just make teams that are relatively balanced and go with a round robin to a mini elimination tourney event, something like that. It'll be fun no matter what...official or not.

From clockwise:

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I don't know any of you, and have only played a few players online about 7 years ago.... But I'm kind of looking forward to this 2on2 thingy. I'm hoping to bring an old friend who used to be the best (of our group) and team up with him. Still trying to get him to register but its kind of hard as he has never had an email address or a PC. LMAO.

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Hey Mikey.

First off, thanks a bunch for your hard work on the documentary. I hope it works out well for you. My comments were directed to the idea of a true champion, not taking into account the documentary's desire to have a movie flare to it. With that in mind, your ideas make a lot more sense.

Second off, WE do appreciate taking us into account for the rules of your tourney. Obviously, odds are, someone who plays on this site is going to win, as playing against the best over the span of years tends to upgrade your play. I think almost everyone came to this site thinking they were the "best" or something like that, minus the younger guys who were knew to the game itself. I'd assume anyone attending the tourney that hasn't played on the site, is about to go through the same beat downs we all endured our first few months on the site!

Anyhow, it's natural to try to want the rules/setup to be inline with the way we'd see it.

What is not natural is how this forum group always comes out in the end, pulling in every direction. It's a very unusual dynamic group, motley bunch that as a indivuals are cool, but as a collective really do come out as arseholes.

Again, as a total group, this forum generally results in total arsehole-dom. But individually, it's always a great feeling. After trying to run Blitz, I told everyone that, and individually, everyone agrees with my assessment, except maybe plabax, and he just might be the biggest, little dick on the planet at times anyhow. Not exactly sure WE always come out this way, because minus one or two, almost all of us are cool dudes.

Hopefully, some good brews and face to face time changes all that! Either way, in case you carry some of those negative, FU guys emotions still, please remember, we all love you and not one guy is trying to deter your from your cool work/job/project!

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NHL '94 was released on FOUR different consoles, so even then the point of having the "best" NHL '94 player doesn't apply to the tournament if it's only going to be GENS and SNES. Sure it's cool to mix them, but you still won't determine who the best player is. What if the runner-up in the tournament is actually better at the other two consoles?

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NHL '94 was released on FOUR different consoles, so even then the point of having the "best" NHL '94 player doesn't apply to the tournament if it's only going to be GENS and SNES. Sure it's cool to mix them, but you still won't determine who the best player is. What if the runner-up in the tournament is actually better at the other two consoles?

How can you even write such a gross miss statement MrP lol Now I can get in the troll game. Sega Genesis 60 hz, Mega Drive 50Hz. Sega CD, Mega CD, SNES, Super Famicom, Game Gear, MS Dos and then you can't forget the engine was used on Mutant Hockey League. So a true King of 94 would have to beat everyone on 9 different systems... oh wait then they are all the mods and emulators for each of those versions. Factor in the lag in modern TV's vs Tube TV's and you have to have both of those.

Basically if Michael Jordan decided to stay on the couch, that didn't change the fact he may be the best basketball player in the world. What did was he got off his ass, played by the rules that was given to him and kicked some ass LIVE against real people.

I truly hope you can make the event MrP, I really do... but not for me or the movie, but so you can see all your buddies that would really like to meet you. Balls are in your court

Edited by McMikey

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Hopefully, some good brews and face to face time changes all that! Either way, in case you carry some of those negative, FU guys emotions still, please remember, we all love you and not one guy is trying to deter your from your cool work/job/project!

Thanks Brutus my man! I'm just trying to make the world a better place 16 bits at a time.

Edited by McMikey

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