GENS Kaillera FPS Drop

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Against certain opponents, my FPS will drop to 10 and my ping will shoot up to 200-250 randomly during the netplay session. When the netplay client is paused or the game is dropped, my ping returns to normal. Does anyone know what this is?

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If this intel helps anyone, I'm one of those opponents.

I play out of Chicago, and rarely have lag with guys I play with, including west Canada and Europe as well.

I've always had a sh&tty connection with Plabax though since my first games.

But, we were playing lag free last week, and THEN BANG!, it was unplayable.

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  • 2 years later...

I think it's Hamachi related.


because about a year & half ago, my issued had become playing J&j.  No change in CPU for either of us.

then, about the same time I stopped having issues w/ J&j, I started having issues with Tex.

i used to almost never be able to play w/ Zep, and he's Baltimore to my Chicago.  We ended up playing on server a few times even.  

FOR some reason, switching from new kalierra to old one would get Zep & I to be able to play.  Our normal connect would literally be like 4-5 second pauses during the game , unplayable.  With old kalierra, it was not idea, but at least playable games.

both Zep and I would play lag free vs other opponents several games before & after a/ out lag, or without lag spikes, so the only thing changing from "good" to "crap" at those times is the Hamachi connection.


Thats why I believe we need to finish up an alternative connection option like Retroarch.

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Terrible slideshow connections were around before Hamachi, it's more likely Kaillera p2p itself? Unless you're seeing the relayed connection icon in Hamachi...

In the meantime, if you're having troubles that you suspect are Hamachi when playing vs other dedicated players, then take the time to set up port forwarding in your router so you don't need Hamachi.

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Port forwarding only fixes the home games, and in leagues, you need it both ways, but I have always been for this.  I actually plan on doing a walk through with someone later this week to set mine up.

Also, more than a few are not able to use port forwarding because they play on their laptops and it leaves the house with them, so they can't have static setup for IP address and switching back & forth is a bit much for some guys.  And some guys play from work, making port forwarding not an option for league mandates, or I would have done it years ago!

I don't understand how if the same software is being used, in terms of Kaillera p2p, and I have no lag with a guy for 6 months, and all of a sudden for 2 months, we have horrible lag that this would be related to the game code because the game code/connection code is not changing.  And other guys are having this random switching of guys who they can play with lag free only to have it pop up as suddenly lag hell, ie right now, Aqua & Atomic, both local in Toronto, having played lag free for years, suddenly have crap connection.

The software being used, PC's and distance of who/how we are playing is not changing.   What's weird was that switching to old Kaillerra vs Zep worked to remove the heavy lag, but that only worked vs Zep, not so much vs others, and it still wasn't a great connect.


Again, I don't see how it's not tied to Hamachi.  I thought about pointing to my Comcast provider say but that didn't make sense  because I can play lag free vs 2 players from different areas, and then when I play vs someone who also just was playing lag free with players from other areas, when we play each other, we have lag.  We give up playing each other and go back and play again with other players and have no lag.  So, my internet provider is not noticing I'm connecting to Hamachi, but Hamachi is relaying me to Baltimore, instead of Toronto, and causes me lag, but when I switch back to play the guy from Colorado or even Toronto again, I'm allowed to be lag free.


The main thing changing then is Hamachi, as I have to give the Hamachi IP address to connecting to different areas, different connection servers and those relays, depending on where you are connecting to, rely on different networks/servers.  The PC being used to play on,  the internet provider and the software running GENS are not changing, but the results are.  I could be wrong, but I would prefer someone to explain how it's NOT Hamachi in this circumstance.

Further break down. Back in January,  using Kaillera p2p through GENS and my Comcast connection from my PC in Chicago, I connect lag free and play NHL94 vs J&J in Colorado, Lupz & Raph in New York, Aqua in Toronto, but try to connect to Zep in Baltimore, and it's LAG city.  Go back to anyone from before, and I'm lag free.

Zep, using same new Kailera p2p, same computer and internet provider from Baltimore, connects LAG FREE w/ J&J, Lupz, Raph & Aqua, but not w/ me in Chicago.

Aqua using the same Kailera p2p, his same computer & internet provider in Toronto he always does, connects LAG FREE w/ everyone, including Atomic in Toronto.

And so on.  AND THEN, 3 months later, I can now connect with Zep lag free, but not w/ Tex, and suddenly, Aqua & Atomic can't connect for crap even though they are close by.  Zep now has lag with someone else not named Brutus, etc.  Guys are all experiencing random LAG issues with different opponents. 


Maybe old Kaillerra performs better under heavier lag/ crappy connection than new Kaillerra, but I don't think Kaillerra has anything to do with these random heavy lag connects Hamachi is giving us between two users.

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I'm unclear on what "old kaillera" is... is that server?

I thought the idea behind Hamachi was it makes a direct connection possible, that it doesn't route the data around through various servers. I.e., if you're connected (on a non-relayed connection, indicated by the colour of the dot icon in hamachi), Hamachi should essentially be out of the picture beyond making the initial connection. Similar idea to how you can get data from a website without setting up port forwarding. I could be wrong?

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FWIW Atomic and I both do port forwarding, and the problem still persists. (So it is not ham.)

Atomic has run a ping log while we play, and our ping will go from 15ms or so, to 200 on occasion.  Very frustrating because we both live in Toronto.

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37 minutes ago, aqualizard said:

FWIW Atomic and I both do port forwarding, and the problem still persists. (So it is not ham.)

Atomic has run a ping log while we play, and our ping will go from 15ms or so, to 200 on occasion.  Very frustrating because we both live in Toronto.

Yeah, this is what I expected... It seems like *something* in the network decides that the connection doesn't need low latency and starts delaying the packets... Possibly some kind of "traffic shaping"

"Traffic shaping, also known as packet shaping, Quality of Service (QoS) or bandwidth management, is the manipulation and  prioritization of network traffic to reduce the impact of heavy users or machines from effecting other users. This bandwidth throttling or rate limiting is performed to guarantee QoS and return on investment (ROI) via the efficient use of bandwidth.

Specifically, traffic shaping is achieved by delaying the flow of certain packets and prioritizing the flow of other preferred streams by predetermined sets of constraints. The benefits of traffic shaping includes the prioritization of business-critical over non-critical traffic and the creation of tiered service levels."

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2 hours ago, chaos said:

Could be something to do with a setting on his router. I know some routers do prioritizing (like smoz posted above). @AtomicRaven what is the model of your router and your modem?

I am not sure if it's Atomic.  It seems like it is "us".  What I mean is, the other night we had trouble together, yet both of us connected with Tex just fine. (Which is worth noting, because connections with Tex have been a bit off lately.  FWIW we are in Toronto, and Tex is in NYC.)  

My own router is:

sagemcom f@st 2864

With latest firmware.  We do find that port forwarding helps, and during the day we have our best connections, though not perfect.  We both have good computers, and high speed internet, and live in the same city, both wired in with wifi off.  It is weird.  

This is an intermittent problem for us, but it seems on the rise.  I would say 50% of the time lately, at night, we throw in the towel.  And if we don't give up, there are still some lag issues or missing frames.  Kind of like playing someone much further away.  A couple months ago I seemed to get the worst of it, but now Atomic has been feeling it, too.

Honestly, it seems like lately connection problems have been on the rise, and I am wondering if ISPs are messing with stuff. (I am not sure if Smozoma's "Traffic Shaping" link was about routers, or ISPs, or what?)  I know I switched from Rogers a few years ago because they were throttling my bittorrent downloads, and claiming they did not.  Now I use Bell, but I feel like they are meddling with stuff, too, or maybe at some low level Netflix and Youtube are hanging gamers out to dry.


Edited by aqualizard
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Ok my ? would be, how if my router or provider is "throttling me" so I not have the lag when I connect to someone else.

sonetimes they are further, sonetimes they are closer, but I've had 3-4 hour exi sessions where I played lag free vs say 5 opponents, but the 6th guy, who wlso just had no lag with the other players, now has lag with me.


numerous times when we both then continue playing with someone else again with no lag.


the continuous clean play vs other opponents both before & after & verified experience by the guy I have lag with.

so, if one guy is causing everyone lag, him being throttled makes sense.  If I didn't have lag, then had lag vs everyone else for the rest of the night, again throttling would make sense.

to me, I don't understand how it could be throttling if it is only vs one opponent & not the others.

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Thanks for input guys.  Here's what I've done so far:

1) Looked at New Kaillera (v09) and when I run it I notice there is no server in Canada, so I'm not sure if that's an issue.  Still can't determine if "old" kaillera uses servers?

2) Talked to my ISP about traffic shaping earlier today.  They have not put any policies of that sort into effect.

3) Tried bypassing my router (Archer C7 aka TP-Link AC1750). It had a minor impact.  Still had lots of Jitter.

   Here's what I've tried with Router:

  •     - I've tried turning off the Firewall, as it does packet inspection.  NO Effect
  •     - Updated Firmware - No Effect
  •     - It does not have QOS
  •    - May try installing OpenWRT, but I;m also using a Asus AC68U as a repeater right now (Don't ask), and will try swapping it with the Archer

4) Just purchased a new Video Card, needed one anyway, as I get alot of "blinking" when running Gens. I was wondering if FPS drop was causing lag.  Worth a shot anyway and now I can run 3 4k monitors!  Of which I have zero.

Also, one big thing I learned today is that cable, especially in my area it appears, is s**t (old infrastructure).  Especially s**t around 8pm (see graph). 

Check out this site - its a comparison of internet providers for League of Legends.  Real time Jitter and PIng results.  My  ISP is Teksavvy.  Other is DSL.  Jitter appears to be my problem.  Well, one of my problems AHAHAHAAHA!


There is an offer atm for Bell Gigabyte fibre for 79 bucks.  I'm becoming more certain the issue is cable congestion, so I may pull the trigger on the Gigabit.   


Edited by AtomicRaven
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  • 1 month later...


To Recap: My issues were not so much latency.  It was Jitter.  I was experiencing alot of drops, crashes about 1 in every 5 games, but worse then that, frame skipping and rubberbanding every games was so bad it was un-playable.  Play would speed up, slow down, and when there was alot of action on the ice, I couldn't even tell what was happening. It was the same for opponent.

Here is everything I tried:

  1. Thought my video card may have been causing issues.  Replaced it with a much better one:  No effect
  2. Replaced Monitor with a 32" because I like to buy s**t and I don't see that well no more:  No effect
  3. Optimized my Network card as per No Effect
  4. Gave priority to Gens: No Effect
  5. Switched windows 7 to give priority to Programs instead fo background services (my gaming machine is a DAW): No Effect
  6. Turned on QOS to reduce buffer bloat : No Effect
  7. Decided to replace my modem due to Puma 6 chipset flaw.  This affects many, many modems and causes ping spikes (confirmed on my modem). There is a class action laswsuit:
    •  ISP did not have a replacement without the PUMA 6 chipset
  8. Almost switched to Gigabit fibre but my ISP, in order to keep me, offered to refund my cable modem and switch me to DSL for no charge.  I decided to do it.      

My ping times prior to DSL were:


All over the place.

After DSL, which is known for little to no Jitter:


Playing against Aqua is almost like playing in person now.  Played against folks in the U.S. like Brutus, Ice, and was almost just as good.

So there you have it.  DSL solved all the issues!

Update Dec 2019: I finally switched to Gigabyte fibre. 

My ping times are now 1-2ms all the time! Play has never been better.

Edited by AtomicRaven
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That LagReport link looks super useful for evaluating ISPs, so I'll post it here on it's own: 

Go to the above link and scroll down about 2 screens to the "Internet Service Provider Comparison" graph. There you can compare the lagginess of different services in your area.

Note that different ISPs will have different ratings in different cities. For me, TekSavvy and Bell are basically the same in my part of Ottawa (rated 95 and 96, graph lines look basically the same). Also sometimes is rates an ISP highly but you need to check the graph. Virgin in my area has the highest rating overall, but the quality tanks around 10pm.

I think ISPs seem to be the big problem, not computers. In trying to debug AJ's connection, it appeared the problem was that his ISP just simply stopped transmitting the packets in one direction, so the connection died. Nothing you can do about it on your computer.

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