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aqualizard

Please Explain SNES and Finals Mystery?

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I am truly amazed that an unknown guy (not a regular online player) won the SNES and then the whole thing. WHo is this Mikail F.? Where is he from? How did the final go against KGman? Was he good on Genesis, too?

And SNES-wise, was he just dominating? It is amazing to me that someone could have enough skill to win WITHOUT the benefit of regular online play? How could he have honed his craft?

I personally think it is cool that there could be someone so good that is unknown out there. Kind of magical. Maybe he developed a style that was totally unlike the online style of the pros, so playing an isolated game actually helped?

Can anyone provide insights on this Mystery Man who took it all?

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Personally I am not THAT shocked.

There are prolly thousands of guys that have no clue about online play. And maybe lots that still play it regularly offline.

Or, maybe he's the only one. :P.

Still, I love it, I think some ppl here needed a bit of an ego deflation.

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Why would you be shocked? Console is different than online play in a few ways. The speed is different and you are forced to use a controller.

Plus there's the element of surprise. All the forum guys know each other's style very well so a new guy can be a big unknown. And it's only one game. I think annatars biggest mistake was the team selection in the final game. He chose WSH-BOS and the non forum guy took Boston, annatar wanted WSH anyway, he prob should have chosen a different team in that pairing.

Guy hadn't played in 5 years and started playing again last week. That's pretty impressive to me. And we have always had a few guys enter Classic who blow everyone away their first time. I'm not surprised at all. There seemed to be more unknowns who signed up for SNES, and a bunch of them made the top 16.

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Maybe SNES just isn't as deep of a game. Maybe it's Grayto. Maybe it's a lack of a best-of-7 and he would have gotten crushed. No random could take me in a best-of-7 but anyone could dominate me in one or two games.

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Yes, Premium, this guy would have beaten you in a best of 7. He was legitimately good.

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eh w/e. If it weren't for best-of-7 I wouldn't have any of my five championships :S

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I was thinking an upset would be more likely to happen in SNES than GENS as the learning curve to elite is greater in Genesis, but I am surprised he won the whole thing though. Was really pulling for Annatar (great dude)...they went 3-3 against each other on the night.

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Mikail was good. I played him six times yesterday and went 3-3. So that's almost a best of 7. I didnt lose to anyone else.

He had a straightforward style but no obvious weaknesses and didn't make a lot of mistakes. Solid with the goalie. Good recipe for success.

Yeah I gave him too good a team in the last game. I had two chances to win though and didn't. The fact that someone can split games with me isn't surprising. There are a few guys around that can do that any day (some not at the tourney).

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There were a few SNES unknown guys that made the top 16. I think there seemed to be more SNES unknowns that signed up for the tourney.

I hope a few of the unknowns sign up for classic. We need some good guys that are new.

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Maybe SNES just isn't as deep of a game. Maybe it's Grayto. Maybe it's a lack of a best-of-7 and he would have gotten crushed. No random could take me in a best-of-7 but anyone could dominate me in one or two games.

He held KGman to 5-2 or 5-3 in their final series GENS game before dropping 8 goals on him in SNES. His play yesterday wasn't based on luck -- he's a legitimately solid player that brought consistent game.

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Both finals were, in effect, best-of-5s, since in both cases the finalists played each other 5 times and went 3-2 or 2-3. So I don't really think the format can be criticized for not being best-of-7, or even for having single games leading up to the final. I think it's clear, this year anyway, that the best and most consistent players on Saturday were mikail, annatar, kgman, and kingraph. BobKudelski did lose two games by only 1 goal in the Final 16, though.

As for why this could happen on SNES, while there were no surprises on Genesis (except maybe Roberto Z), I think there are more tricks to learn on Genesis. The weight bug, pass-shot, and B-check are a huge advantage (CB-check, to a lesser degree in my experience, but maybe I've never played someone really good with it), and they are all skills that I learned online and didn't really see any new guys using (Steven L tried a few times for five-hole B passes and scored on his first one, and I think it was Brad Y who talked about learning about the weight bug on the forum, but I never played him). Are there weird skills to learn like those in SNES? I don't think practice is all that important (re: Mikail hadn't played in 5 years), compared to simply how developed your skills are (it may have taken lots of practice to gain those skills, but you can probably get pretty close to your peak in a couple weeks). Also, SNES has fewer players online and had more new guys in the tournament (maybe 10 newbies per group, compared to 8 in Sega). Fewer online players means less evolution of technique, but it's still really impressive that someone who's never played online would have the skills to match guys who've played maybe 30+ different people online. It also sounds like he could be competitive in Sega, really looking forward to seeing him on here.

As for my own surprise performance, what helped me a lot was actually that I developed a new offensive style in the last season of classic, in my last ~10 games (I went 2-1 vs kg, 1-1 vs swos, 1-1 vs raph... and 0-4 vs zeppelin :D So maybe there's something to be said for familiarity). Offence had always been my big weakness, but I put up 4.57 GFA in the Final 16... I never even put up goals like that in B leagues. On the other hand, if I'd beaten Uncle Buck, I probably would actually have been eliminated at least a game earlier, so there's some luck.

Did anyone else notice there was a guy named Ko C who was competitive with Mikail (went 1-1 with him, outscoring him 11-10) and also beat tylerdeanhill 5-1, but didn't qualify for the Final 16? Should try to get in touch with him and let him know that he's pretty good and see how he does online!

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the mystery is...... where is my Championship Dpad right now!......Losing that plus the fact no money was on the line cost me SNES ......i guess if i would have trained snes enough to know the controls or if i could control manual gc with b button ....i might have had a chance ...i also found it really weird he was poke checking the s**t outta me which leads me to believe he either trained gens or watched some vids online if that is the case then his claims of not playing snes online might be bullshit as well ......but god damn it felt good to destroy that dirty little console!!!! had i won it and mikali tried to destroy the genesis outside there might have been a brawl! but none of the snes guys defended their pride and joy!

Edited by kgman

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Format can be criticized. See my original posts re time.

First, lots of dead time. Best of 3 series could reduce dead time significantly by first, having someone sit in a seat for a longer period of time, and second giving the other competitors more to get ready for. Also a best of three would probably take on average something like 25 minutes since most will be 2-0 sweeps. Yes that means the schedule has to be done with less specificity, such as you have to be ready to play next, but if anything the lack of urgency on the schedule lead to more downtime.

While my other two losses can't be blamed on format as they were close games, my loss against Raph involved the worst luck one can come across 94. Klima going out for the game half way through the first period! Yes I could have not spit it up against AJ and then rematched Raph... I won't forget that loss anytime soon.

My problem with the format was not that it is a bad format for producing a champion it is that I found it inefficient for getting maximum play in, and thus fun. I don't think anyone can say that the systems were used near enough to maximize playing time. Nonetheless, it was

I only used a pass shot once the entire tournament. (game winner v AJ with my man Housley!) The only 'trick' I think you need to have some idea of how c checking works to be really competitive. Sometimes a pass shot is the best chance you have, but for me that is generally a result of knowing a check is going to work so I have to get rid of the puck.

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I thought the format was great. With 2 losses in the first round, I had to win 5 elimination games in a row to make the top 16 (would have been 6, but the Wu-Tang guy disappeared, eh I would have beat him anyway). I think that was exactly how it should have been done, you lose, it's harder to move on. Also, Raph had to beat kgman twice to move on through the winner's bracket, and annatar had to beat Mikail twice to move on, before both those matchups eventually made it to the finals. That throws out a little of the "it's only one game, anything can happen" theory. It's still surprising to me that both winners came out of the loser bracket side. I thought the strategy of team selection was a big deal. Losing the flip, knowing you are going to be home, and being able to pick the better team out of the 2 was a big advantage at times.

The end Gens vs SNES was a little gimmicky, was really mostly for the camera, but it would have been pretty cool to get 2 guys who had at least played the other console before. We filled Mikail in on what to do on Genesis, and it was really just "don't let him score a lot on you" and not "try to win" to get the 3rd game in your favor.

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I agree the format was great...had to move so many people through a one day tournament. I have no issues with that. It's like a 12 hour tournament...maximum play might have been overkill. I enjoyed watching a lot of great games from great players. As far as pass shot, KG doesn't use pass shots, and he's the champ!

One thing you have to get used to in SNES is pressing A to get up after a check. As a GENS player, I immediately press B to switch players, but many times I would have fared better just getting up. Other than that, I think the gameplay is straightforward. It comes down to who makes fewer mistakes.

GENS has b-checks, CB checks, pass shots, rebound goals, slapshots, holding down B for goalie control timing that can be learned to elevate your game. In addition (and very important), is the stats for players matter MUCH more. Stick, Shot Power, Weight, Agility, should all be known for every player to improve your game. I think you can get away with SNES default lines as it seems the players don't vary as much. Take that with a grain of salt, as I play Genesis 98% of the time.

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One thing you have to get used to in SNES is pressing A to get up after a check. As a GENS player, I immediately press B to switch players, but many times I would have fared better just getting up. Other than that, I think the gameplay is straightforward. It comes down to who makes fewer mistakes.

Pressing "Y" you mean. You Gens guys and your 3 buttons....

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the mystery is...... where is my Championship Dpad right now!....

Probably at the Kremlin with Bob Krafts' ring.

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