Sign in to follow this  
Royameadow

[MD] The (currently) ever so labourous task of editing the background for the Main Menu

Recommended Posts

Thought that I would re~share this topic that Raceme800 had made in the Welcome Rookies section.

I have wanted to look into this a major lot, given my expertise with the understanding of how to edit the artwork in the Thirty Team ROM for NHL '94, and perhaps this could go somewhere major if we are able to figure this out in full.

So Raceme800 was wondering if we could probably edit up the Main Menu's background in the Thirty Team ROM, which like the original NHL '94, is still massively compressed to work with at this time.

However, as we have viewed from both myself and others here on the forum, we are able to edit certain graphics such as the Main Menu's Option Box and the EA logo on the background of the ice, and this had gotten me thinking: Given these probabilities, in theory, it is probable to more than likely change the entire background of the Main Menu in full, but due to its compression, one would have to know which offsets in Tile Molester go to which portions of the background in order for a new image to go in perfectly, which is an ever so labourous task in within itself.

This is where you folks come in, I would love to work on figuring this out for future titles that we develop on here, as the direction that we are now taking the artwork of the game is becoming notable.

In the event that somebody could figure out every single coordinate for each row and column of the Main Menu's background, then this would be the thread to post it in to deliver some reference and/or a tutorial for us to learn how to do this without complications and/or error.

Although I might happen to love this being my current visual template:

12079277_898883563482496_885537146103691

I truly would love it if we could work on fixing the editing methods to obtain something such as this at some point in Future~Time:

12046590_898883696815816_137790349008150

As one of the modern leaders of the art direction for ROM hacks of '94, this is something that I truly would love for us to take on as soon as we are probably able to, I truly do enjoy viewing what I have been able to edit in the title's artwork, and this is truly one of the only things that are missing from the Assembly Hacks.

Doing this for the game would optimize editing the artwork for the Thirty Team ROM Assembly in its current incarnation, and we would be able to work with that until the next template for making ROM hacks out of comes out, in which we would then be able to edit the background in the same way that we are currently able to edit the Splash Screens and Title Screen; wishfully, somebody will be able to guide us in the development of editing the background of the Main Menu, it literally is one of the only major things that are currently missing from the utmost recent builds of the game, and to be truthful, I feel that more titles on here would prosper from it, the games would look and feel more visually polished with the ability to modify this, it would encourage more to edit the artwork massively.

With that said, please do discuss this topic, I truly am curious about where something such as this could go.

A major breakthrough such as this would be completely well worth it for all of us in the long run, I would love to view this go somewhere big. (:

Edited by Royameadow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can you try again to explain your preference for distorted image aspect ratios?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For obvious reasons, all Widescreen images would obviously be scaled down to the 04:03 or 08:07 Aspect Ratio, I do not think that would be much of a problem for us while working in TM, given our experience with it.

All of the wallpapers that you have viewed in my works have capabilities of Anamorphic Widescreen, even the Mockup that I had presented above is capable of doing so.

The Aspect Ratio of the Team Logos, however, that was what we were discussing back on Friday, we won't have to worry about that with what I am looking for in this particular thread.

To clarify though, if a logo looks far too stretched on the Main Menu using TM's full dimensions for each logo, then I will reduce the number of columns that the logo takes up in the box, so that way, it looks a bit neater and not too Standard Definition esque, so to speak.

As for this topic though, irregardless of the used image's Aspect Ratio, what I happen to be having trouble with when it comes to editing the Main Menu's background is that it is still horribly compressed, it would take hours to insert an image properly into the background because there would be so much trial and error attempting to figure out which tile goes to which portion of the image without a guide.

That is what had led to this thread being made, I know that it is probable to do, but it is a rather ample lengthy task; wishfully, we will be able to figure out how to handle editing the background in its current state, putting our own images into the Main Menu would absolutely work well for more modern ROM hacks such as ours it would benefit strongly from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you find any of the tiles? Something to give people a starting point.

Is there any precedent for converting a sega game to widescreen? I think what tru is getting at is, why are you putting widescreen images in a game that isn't widescreen? Why not put the proper aspect ratios in for now, then just redo it later if it ever becomes widescreen? Are there people working on widescreen for this game? you mention anamorphic widescreen, which means shrinking the game vertically and leaving black bars above/below -- well then you'd have to redo the images anyway, wouldn't you? Am I missing something? Maybe what you mean is, you are playing the game stretched to widescreen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For obvious reasons....

nope! literally none of what you post on the forums should logically have this clause attached. you are far and away the hardest poster to follow, and we have a guy Hokkee that seems to aim for that honor.

....The Aspect Ratio of the Team Logos, however, that was what we were discussing back on Friday....

I wasn't, but, yeah, you were.

....irregardless....

oh, wow. I think I'm done here. Edited by tru

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for this topic though, irregardless of the used image's Aspect Ratio, what I happen to be having trouble with when it comes to editing the Main Menu's background is that it is still horribly compressed, it would take hours to insert an image properly into the background because there would be so much trial and error attempting to figure out which tile goes to which portion of the image without a guide.

I thought the graphics have been decompressed in the decompressed ROM? Figuring out what the tiles are should be fairly easy, using a program like Tile Molester. Remember that a lot of tiles are reused in spots, they might just be flipped in the final image.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you find any of the tiles?

Something to give people a starting point.

12079716_898965066807679_684635232718414

In Tile Molester, the Main Menu's background begins at offset 0004B7AA, all of the tiles are accounted for right there.

There are 0240 tiles to work with, with select tiles representing different rows than what one would normally presume if they were working with this from start to end, and that is what makes editing this such a massive pain.

Now, I am positive that the (easiest) way to edit this screen is simple Copying and Pasting of tiles of the image that you want to use and doing that one by one.

However, given that the image does have certain tiles from other rows and columns interfering with the primary order of them, that is why a guide is required, so that we do not accidentally set a tile in an offset that it is not supposed to be, or else the image would come out as partially distorted..

Is there any precedent for converting a sega game to widescreen?

I think what tru is getting at is, why are you putting widescreen images in a game that isn't widescreen?

Why not put the proper aspect ratios in for now, then just redo it later if it ever becomes widescreen?

Are there people working on widescreen for this game?

You mention anamorphic widescreen, which means shrinking the game vertically and leaving black bars above/below -- well, then you'd have to redo the images anyway, wouldn't you?

Am I missing something?

Maybe what you mean is, you are playing the game stretched to widescreen?

Ah, yes, I think that is why my talk on Anamorphic Widescreen is confusing here, that would explain the misunderstanding here.

Basically, all of the images that I have used for this game (Splash Screen and Title Screen images) are all in the resolution of 2844xI600, of which I downscale to either 0320x0224 or 0256x0224, yet the images still are able to be stretched out into a Widescreen resolution because they were originally in that format before downscaling them.

There are ways to naturally implement Anamorphic Widescreen into Sega Genesis and Megadrive titles, and this is actually done by coding the game to have the 0320x0224 image with the Black Sidebars on both the top and bottom, taking out roughly 020 to 040 rows of tiles from both sides in the process, if my memory serves correctly.

Russian Homebrew titles for the PAL, NTSC~J, and South Korean Megadrive do happen to have this luxury, for some odd reason, probably to compensate for the fact that they wanted to emphasize on it at all points in their works, there have been a few titles that benefit from this luxury from other titles as well, Sonic the Hedgehog: Michael Bay Vision (Sonic MBV) being one of the utmost notable in North America and Europe to use it full~time, that ROM hack is a primary example of what actual Widescreen on the console would be, which would still require cropping on a television set to fill the screen.

But yes, to answer your question, I am playing all NHL titles and ROM hacks that are on the Genesis, Megadrive, and Super 032X stretched out in Widescreen, hence the approach that I take with the images and wallpapers that I use for each screen being originally in the I6:09 Aspect Ratio being downscaled to a 04:03 or an 08:07 image to fit into the game properly.

Theoretically, given the approach that I have taken with that, this is why I say that my works have Partial Anamorphic Widescreen, and not Full; Full Anamorphic Widescreen in '94 would require us to also find a way to add in the extra 064 columns of tiles that are unused during gameplay (the Scoreboard and gameplay display in 0256x0224, rather than 0320x0224), and if that is done, then we could view more of the arena than we do normally; my talk on questions regarding extending the gameplay screen has already been brought up in another thread by me, you may read up on that from this link if you have yet to view it: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16877-tech-talk-mdsuper-032x-probability-of-obtaining-a-proper-resolution/

Edited by Royameadow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 486 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online