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Game Evolution: Weight Bug, Pass Shots, CB Checks, etc.


aqualizard

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Hello and Good Day!

I am amazed at how things continue to be discovered about this ancient game. And not little quirks, but major game changers.

If you know other big Game Changers please add them, but I think the big 3 are:

1. The discovery of the weight bug
2. Pass Shots
3. CB Checks

When was each discovered, and by whom? What other big game changers can I add to the list?

I am sure people knew from the beginning that guys like Fleury and Roenick were great checkers, but I would like to know when someone really pieced together "Aha! A glitch reverses player weights in the checking calculation, but only for non CPU controlled players". Similarly, I scored pass shots accidentally in 1995, but who here pioneered scoring with them -- and different varieties of them -- as a real strategy, first? Finally, the genius of the CB check? Was it crafty Plabax that figured that one out? When? Did other people notice he seems to be able to check with fat guys, or did he share the knowledge from the get-go? (This would be a great gem to keep to yourself for awhile, methinks!)

Edited by aqualizard
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An early pass shot expert was cro0ssbar. Although, he tended to only score them from the faceoff dot, whereas now there are many different techniques such as 1) coming straight at the goalie, deke back and forth and then pass it just inside the post (only one I can do with any consistency) 2) cut across the front and slam it home (it was Zalex or Frey who I first saw that from) 3) skate in at the post and fire it at that post and in (I saw Plabax do it in a video, then Voc caught me with that at King of 94), and of course 4) five-hole (hokkee does that a lot)

CB checks were discovered by Plabax

An uncommon but effective scoring method is, what someone referred to back in around GDL2 times, the "EA special" (after EricAnthony). Shoot a weak wrister at the goalie, it bounces off the goalie and the goalie goes down or dives, then pick up the rebound with your player and score. AJ, Raph, and Seth have done that to me in more modern times.

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An early pass shot expert was cro0ssbar. Although, he tended to only score them from the faceoff dot...

What year are we looking at approximately? Or did he come into community already doing them in the wild? (I will do some searches too, now that I have a name.)

CB checks were discovered by Plabax

Hopefully Plabax can reply himself here, but I am wondering what year they were discovered, HOW they were discovered (did he mistakenly hit B after a check? Or have an inkling somehow and tried it deliberately?) ANd, did he keep the discovery to himself for a bit? (Nothing wrong with that, IMO.)

An uncommon but effective scoring method is, what someone referred to back in around GDL2 times, the "EA special" (after EricAnthony). Shoot a weak wrister at the goalie, it bounces off the goalie and the goalie goes down or dives, then pick up the rebound with your player and score.

Funny you mention this because I just played EA for the first time ever, and did notice how much he does this. In GDL, I have the "Rubber Man" Kelly Hrudey, and it frustrated me to no end. (Though I find it funny a couple day's removed. ;)) Still, I don't see this technique very commonly, and it doesn't seem like a huge exploit or game changer. (Though I do appreciate you mentioning it. ;))

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cr0ssbar was around 2005-2007 I think. I think he got banned for EDIT: I don't remember what

going nuts and posting distasteful porn on here in some kind of rage. Not that tasteful porn would be allowed either :P. [that was dr p1zza]

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What's equally interesting is that there really haven't been any discoveries with the snes version. It was a solid and straightforward game right out of the box. Not many bugs or oddities compared to the GENS version. For a hardcore snes guy like myself, The GENS version is a bit intimidating knowing that there are all these little bugs and tricks.

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CB checks fully revealed Feb'14 by Plabax: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16081-insider-weight-knowledge-weight-bug/

Not fully understood until quite some time later.

I always thought the fins (swos and his crew) dominated pass shots back in the day.

Plabax also gave more knowledge to the fact that stickhandling is the attribute that helps a player toddle against a b-check than going down.

Weight bug knowledge was known late 2006 it seems (browsing through forums) and early 2007 looks to be discussed and called "weight bug".

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What's equally interesting is that there really haven't been any discoveries with the snes version. It was a solid and straightforward game right out of the box. Not many bugs or oddities compared to the GENS version. For a hardcore snes guy like myself, The GENS version is a bit intimidating knowing that there are all these little bugs and tricks.

Gens definitely has more crap going on. The get up hold button is a good advantage to those who use it in SNES. Other than that, trying to figure out the "invincibility mode" would be good. Also, what determines checking in SNES? Doesn't seem weight or checking matters much as speed and direction. It may not seem as glitchy, but there are things the top guys know/do in SNES that requires some knowledge.

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What's equally interesting is that there really haven't been any discoveries with the snes version. It was a solid and straightforward game right out of the box. Not many bugs or oddities compared to the GENS version. For a hardcore snes guy like myself, The GENS version is a bit intimidating knowing that there are all these little bugs and tricks.

You know, I think the SNES version is so much cleaner because it was really a copy of the original GENS game. The GENS was the original work of art, and made whole cloth from scratch. As a truly creative endeavor, I bet there were many missteps, and inefficiencies, and I bet the code was messy! But the SNES guys just had to emulate something that existed, not make something wholly original, and I bet the code is much neater and efficient.

If you analysed the Mona Lisa, I bet you could find all sorts of irregularities and mistakes. Whereas, a talented painter could make a reproduction in half the time that would be cleaner and error free. That's how I look at it, anyway.

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SNES has the switch to left/right defender that is a GREAT upgrade over GENS, but it randomly doesn't work. You can hit the thing 5 times some times, and not get the guy, which is unlike anything else in the game. Goalie switch is on a delay in GENS, but you ALWAYS get the goalie, so strategy doesn't involve some times it just not letting you grab the guy.

It's say 90% efficient, but still, I've seen this enough to list it, and confirmed it w/ most SNES guys.

Also, as Raph mentioned, checking is almost "unknown" in SNES, so guys just seem to ignore it as a value, and if the guy falls, he falls. Also, since half the time he falls, he can HOP up w/ that bug and hold you, maybe checking isn't as valued in SNES.

To me, GENS plays more like a hockey video game version of rock, paper & scissors, at a very fast pace. A series of rules played at a fast pace that require a constant, he did this, I needed to do that, etc. Adjustments on a minute detail.

So, yes, Gens is much more intimidating to play at a higher level than SNES. I also feel it plays much more interesting. SNES to me feels bland.

IN SNES, you can't have the same fast paced chess match because the rules change. This time I could check you w/ Mario, but next time I can't. This time, I got my left defender, next time, I didn't. This time, I could skate through the entire defense and not get knocked down, the next time, I couldn't stand for 2 seconds. So, I'm not "knocking" it, but I agree w/ BobK that Gens has more rules to learn or you get creamed, but in the end, it lends to a much more complex, high intensity game that the SNES version doesn't offer.

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An early pass shot expert was cro0ssbar. Although, he tended to only score them from the faceoff dot, whereas now there are many different techniques such as 1) coming straight at the goalie, deke back and forth and then pass it just inside the post (only one I can do with any consistency) 2) cut across the front and slam it home (it was Zalex or Frey who I first saw that from) 3) skate in at the post and fire it at that post and in (I saw Plabax do it in a video, then Voc caught me with that at King of 94), and of course 4) five-hole (hokkee does that a lot)

CB checks were discovered by Plabax

An uncommon but effective scoring method is, what someone referred to back in around GDL2 times, the "EA special" (after EricAnthony). Shoot a weak wrister at the goalie, it bounces off the goalie and the goalie goes down or dives, then pick up the rebound with your player and score. AJ, Raph, and Seth have done that to me in more modern times.

Smoz, you remember everything... you're a living archive! I had no idea about the pass shot with cro0ssbar and why he was kicked off the site... that's really interesting though.

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Gens definitely has more crap going on. The get up hold button is a good advantage to those who use it in SNES. Other than that, trying to figure out the "invincibility mode" would be good. Also, what determines checking in SNES? Doesn't seem weight or checking matters much as speed and direction. It may not seem as glitchy, but there are things the top guys know/do in SNES that requires some knowledge.

Yes, the Y button / "hold up" button is a little glitch, but I didn't even consider it because it's so minor and I don't find it useful.

The checking determination has always felt intuitive in SNES, right from the start, so nothing has changed in that regard. If a guy is moving at a good pace and times his hit properly, and catches a guy in the right position, he can destroy just about anyone, regardless of size. It just feels right. I don't think we need to investigate it any further than that really.

The "invincibility mode" thing is the only thing that's a bit of a mystery I suppose. Although I don't think it's really invincibility, maybe "beastmode" is a better name for it. hah

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As for how Plabax figured out the weight bug, I think he mentioned something about watching the CPU vs CPU or something like that and noticed that FAT CPU controlled guys were checking the skinny guys successfully at a high rate, and it gave him the idea of switching off the controlled player before the actual check to see if it then gave way to CPU controlled rules for the check's success/lack there of.

I also think he studies the game a bit more than most, and it's clearly shown through in numerous moments and in his game play as well.

That said, it's not rocket science, and there still is several different "preferred playing styles" I see out there. No right or wrong.

You almost never see some guys use C/B, others rarely B check, and some use limited manual goalie. Some heavy B shot, others heavy one timer, etc.

Pretty cool mix up out of top 30 or so Gens guys, imo.

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You almost never see some guys use C/B, others rarely B check, and some use limited manual goalie. Some heavy B shot, others heavy one timer, etc.

We need like pokemon cards with our ratings for the different techniques

edit: like this

aGi3wG8.jpg

nVDWhkz.jpg

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Smoz, you remember everything... you're a living archive! I had no idea about the pass shot with cro0ssbar and why he was kicked off the site... that's really interesting though.

cr0ssbar was a piece of garbage. He started a proto-GDL league and then killed it because he was garbage.

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cr0ssbar was a piece of garbage. He started a proto-GDL league and then killed it because he was garbage.

Was that NHL94.net? I had him do my draft because I couldn't be online and emailed him a list and said don't draft fatties and I ended up with Lemieux and a bunch of fatties. Said he didn't see the list.

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One thing I've noticed over the years, at least in myself is how I've had to try and adjust to all the different developments over the years and how people utilize the information available to them.

I may be generalizing but I still think it's fairly accurate in that people in the early years of the site played 94 as if it were some unrealistic video game and it's not wrong to play the game like that because it can be effective way to play. When I say playing it unrealistic I mean without regard for legitimate hockey strategy. The strategy on offense would be to get the puck to your best player at all costs and go ham by trying to create a scoring chance via crease cut, one-timer, or slapper. Defense wasn't much more complicated then go body check whoever had the puck at any cost. With less information at our fingertips we played more recklessly and carefree.

When the weight bug became something that was known instead of theorized, people changed the way they played and tried to come up with ways to combat light players. Some strategies would include B checking, hooking (on a much lesser extent), slot clogging, and developing better GC. Offense changed as well since less puck skilled players were seeing more ice time than usual. Crashing the net became a bigger strategy as did the EA rebound shot, and pass shooting.

In short, these developments necessitated the creation of future developments which necessitated further developments beyond that. I think now were at the point in GENS, that there are too many options to have a defense specialized at one thing and an offense specialized at one thing while maintaining consistent success. I find, for me at least that having a realistic hockey approach is the best way to deal with an opponent. Knowing how to execute a breakout from your own zone is paramount to keeping the opponent off of you and attaining easy chances. Knowing how to pass the puck in the neutral and offensive zone is important as well because just like in real hockey, turnovers at the opponents blue line are a great way to fuel your opponents counter attack in 94 as well. Recognizing how to cycle the puck on offense, how to clog the slot on defense, even playing a bit of a left wing lock are also important to limiting how many options you give your opponent.

What I'm trying to say is that with so many options available to us the game is more about making your opponents options more predictable and limited. Playing good honest hockey seems to be the best way to counter that because it makes the other team work hard to open up their options. I could be out my damn mind but I think thats the biggest change I've seen, all of the things we have discovered haven't made the thing previous to it obsolete, they have only built on top of each other and made it more of a balanced game. I think if you look at the best players it is the players who are the best at playing the game as if its real hockey and not just chucking the puck up the ice to their best player or moving their defenders out of position to go check someone.

I've always tried to stay ahead of the pack with things I'm constantly trying to develop, I find that it is harder to do that now then it was 8-9 years ago because we all know too much and use it in our play style.

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Was that NHL94.net? I had him do my draft because I couldn't be online and emailed him a list and said don't draft fatties and I ended up with Lemieux and a bunch of fatties. Said he didn't see the list.

Yeah. That sounds like something he would do. What a loser.

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One thing I've noticed over the years, at least in myself is how I've had to try and adjust to all the different developments over the years and how people utilize the information available to them.

I may be generalizing but I still think it's fairly accurate in that people in the early years of the site played 94 as if it were some unrealistic video game and it's not wrong to play the game like that because it can be effective way to play. When I say playing it unrealistic I mean without regard for legitimate hockey strategy. The strategy on offense would be to get the puck to your best player at all costs and go ham by trying to create a scoring chance via crease cut, one-timer, or slapper. Defense wasn't much more complicated then go body check whoever had the puck at any cost. With less information at our fingertips we played more recklessly and carefree.

When the weight bug became something that was known instead of theorized, people changed the way they played and tried to come up with ways to combat light players. Some strategies would include B checking, hooking (on a much lesser extent), slot clogging, and developing better GC. Offense changed as well since less puck skilled players were seeing more ice time than usual. Crashing the net became a bigger strategy as did the EA rebound shot, and pass shooting.

In short, these developments necessitated the creation of future developments which necessitated further developments beyond that. I think now were at the point in GENS, that there are too many options to have a defense specialized at one thing and an offense specialized at one thing while maintaining consistent success. I find, for me at least that having a realistic hockey approach is the best way to deal with an opponent. Knowing how to execute a breakout from your own zone is paramount to keeping the opponent off of you and attaining easy chances. Knowing how to pass the puck in the neutral and offensive zone is important as well because just like in real hockey, turnovers at the opponents blue line are a great way to fuel your opponents counter attack in 94 as well. Recognizing how to cycle the puck on offense, how to clog the slot on defense, even playing a bit of a left wing lock are also important to limiting how many options you give your opponent.

What I'm trying to say is that with so many options available to us the game is more about making your opponents options more predictable and limited. Playing good honest hockey seems to be the best way to counter that because it makes the other team work hard to open up their options. I could be out my damn mind but I think thats the biggest change I've seen, all of the things we have discovered haven't made the thing previous to it obsolete, they have only built on top of each other and made it more of a balanced game. I think if you look at the best players it is the players who are the best at playing the game as if its real hockey and not just chucking the puck up the ice to their best player or moving their defenders out of position to go check someone.

I've always tried to stay ahead of the pack with things I'm constantly trying to develop, I find that it is harder to do that now then it was 8-9 years ago because we all know too much and use it in our play style.

So hokkee was ahead of his time but too drunk to capitalize on it? He's the only one that I can remember blatantly trying real hockey strategies but quickly abandoning them after they didn't work.

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Regarding the weight bug:

I am sure people knew from the beginning that guys like Fleury and Roenick were great checkers, but I would like to know when someone really pieced together "Aha! A glitch reverses player weights in the checking calculation, but only for non CPU controlled players".

So can anyone shed some light on when the weight bug truly became understood? I kinda thought it was Smozoma who really figured it out, because I have read his posts on fixing this glitch by editing the ROM, but he didn't chime in on this point at all?

Was the weight bug fully understood before this forum came into being? If not, can we put a finger on who really laid it out in how we undertstand it today? Or was it Smozoma, and if yes, about when?

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I started playing online around xmas 2005. It was through a tecmo forum, actually. The legendary dmitri ran a 2006 ROM league, line changes, offsides, etc... This was before GDL.

I had the Ducks, and they were a big team, and yet, I could not check at all, and it was really frustrating. Checking was a mystery to me.

The league eventually tanked, even with hokkee making fake accounts and playing like 3 teams, and I moved on to the nhl94.com forums.

I think I found out pretty soon after joining the forums that there was a weight bug. Someone may have mentioned it to me. So mid 2006.

Some time after this I tried to figure out what caused the weight bug, by editing the emulator to print out the code/instructions as it was executing them and hopefully I could narrow down the area of code and find the bug, but this didn't work.

29 May 2007 - Tony H posts a guide for hacking (http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/3474-reference-nhl-94-rom-hacking-school/). I reply "Sweet! Next stop for me.. fixing the checking/weight bug! " Then I proceeded to not read his guide for over a year.

Jun 05 2008 - I created the Blitz league. instead of fixing the weight bug, I would just reverse the weights, so lindros was light, etc. However, I didn't like this, because it made lindros really quick (better acceleration and turning), and guys like fleury really .. well, fat -- slow at accelerating and turning.

I decide to read Tony H's post and actually fix the weight bug.

19 July 2008 - I post that I have fixed the weight bug thanks to Tony H's tutorial.

I restart Blitz with the weight bug fix.

You can find the weight bug thread in the hacking section of the forum, in the THread Guide.

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cr0ssbar didnt go crazy and post porn on forum. You are thinking of dr.p1zza lol...

Don't know what happened to cr0ssbar. He was def the first guy who showed us the pass shot. The fins adopted it and mastered it to an extent.

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Don't know what happened to cr0ssbar. He was def the first guy who showed us the pass shot. The fins adopted it and mastered it to an extent.

Thanks, HABS...

So here are some milestones:

2005 - Cr0ssbar invents/discovers Pass Shot

2006 - Smozoma fleshes out concept of Weight Bug

2014 - Plabax invents/discovers CB check

I am sure there are other things between 2007 and 2013, but I don't know what they are...

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  • The Blitz league was super strong in its prime. Pretty much had some of the best A coaches in 12 team format. And played as a very different game from classic/GDL weight bug. I think this started around 2008?
  • 2on2.com league I can't quite remember what year this was but it was a pretty awesome time for 2on2 as there probably 8 teams playing out a whole season.
  • 2on2 Summit Series I think this was 2008 or 2010 when this first began. A best of 199 series between players from the USA and Canada. There was one summit series that went to an epic game 199! Lots of fun, with lots of community engagement.

2on2 roms have had some interesting hacks including goalies that do not get whistled unless they move away very far from the crease (this was to keep a breakneck speed and flow of the game). This was thanks to clockwise.

Summit series rom had a Caribbean version of NHL93 music on its menu screen (this was actually by chance).

I'm missing a bunch of stuff that will come back to me in time.

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  • 2on2.com league I can't quite remember what year this was but it was a pretty awesome time for 2on2 as there probably 8 teams playing out a whole season.
  • 2on2 Summit Series I think this was 2008 or 2010 when this first began. A best of 199 series between players from the USA and Canada. There was one summit series that went to an epic game 199! Lots of fun, with lots of community engagement.

2on2 Summit series I believe was 2008 b/c I was still around during that time. I was not a fan of that series since it pitted me against my 2on2 partner... the one and only HABS himself.

2on2 leagues were great... intense match ups with a lot of guys but I remember those of HABS & me vs. VC & Clockwize were the most epic at that time.

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2006 - Smozoma fleshes out concept of Weight Bug

Nope

Some people knew about the weight bug in 2006 and possibly earlier, although it wasn't common knowledge (as evidenced by the GDL 1 draft in Nov 2006). It was well known in early 2007, though (probably due to GDL).

I fixed the weight bug in 2008.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok, I am changing my milestones, and would like to add one. The new one is "understanding the significance of Stickhandling". Again, I think it is Plabax that gets credit for figuring out how stickhandling plays a big role in not coughing up the puck when challenged (as well as the use of the word "toddle", which I see used more on these boards than at any other point in the history of the English language). I am not sure exactly when he figured this out, but a guess is below? I am amazed that he is so good at playing the game, as well as dissecting and understanding it on a deeper level, making connections that other people never did before him.

Also, Swos PMed me to tell me that Finnish guys were using pass shots before 2001, and the first version of this site existed! I have talked with other guys that say the did them back in the day (pre-NHL94.com), too.

So here are some edited milestones:

< 2001 - Finns (and others) use pass shots

2005 - Cr0ssbar really develops Pass Shot

< 2007 - People are aware of weight bug
2008 - Smozoma fixes weight bug at a code level for Blitz ROMs

2011?? - Plabax discovers significance of Stickhandling relating to holding on to puck
2014 - Plabax invents/discovers CB check

What other milestones are there?

Edited by aqualizard
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cr0ssbar didnt go crazy and post porn on forum. You are thinking of dr.p1zza lol...

Don't know what happened to cr0ssbar. He was def the first guy who showed us the pass shot. The fins adopted it and mastered it to an extent.

They both ran leagues that they spazzed out on and killed. cr0ssbar went slightly less crazy than p1zza. I've been doing pass shots since I first played the game around the time it was released, he just refused to try to score any other way.

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They both ran leagues that they spazzed out on and killed. cr0ssbar went slightly less crazy than p1zza. I've been doing pass shots since I first played the game around the time it was released, he just refused to try to score any other way.

Well we've had a couple of members come here cuz of Dr P1zzas videos so thats something

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