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aqualizard

What Attributes lead to PIMs?

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Some players take more PIMs than others. Why? What attributes contribute to high PIMs?

(I had always thought that Checking and Aggressiveness led to PIMs, but I have read elsewhere that Aggressiveness isn't even used for anything? But I am sure that Checking plays into it, because the more checks the AI takes, the more chances for crosschecking, roughing, etc.)

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The highest amount of penalties I've received by a LOT are from the CPU. You control 1 skater, it controls 4, so that makes sense.

So, to me, I'm looking at what attributes/actions during CPU control give it more penalties, and I'm a believer in penalties being VERY random, but in order to have this RANDOM chance occur, an event needs to take place. By stating they are random, I don't believe one type of action gets more penalties called than another type of action. But you do need an ACTION to occur for the whistle to be blown.

And this only happens when a player (CPU controlled or human), interacts with another player. So, the more your players bump into other players, the more interaction is caused between them. Often, WHO you are playing can effect how many penalties you get as much as WHO you play with. Sometimes, I skate the wrong way on a break away when I won't be able to catch someone before switching to goalie and end up getting a penalty called on one of your defenders for taking some dumb penalty (cheap, but it does happen). If I skated the right way, we wouldn't collide and I wouldn't get the random chance for that penalty to occur.

I've seen some classic video of Ray Bourque having cleared out the entire net area by himself under CPU control. His HYPER checking rating makes him a guy that is almost better to NOT control, because he will put the hurting on the other team when under CPU control. HE will also obviously reach a lot more players with his speed and be in more interactions, and usually is in the tops of penalty leaders.

I also find if you let someone have puck possession and SIT in your zone for a decent amount of time, your defense will end up getting penalties trying to keep the net clear more often.

STYLE of play effects your interactions by your CPU players & YOU, but in the end, higher checking results in MORE check attempts when under CPU control, so it will lead to higher penalties called in a game, as a result of the more chances. But, I'm not sure where aggression goes into AI for CPU.

ALSO, I think really LOW checkers tend to hold more, and that gets penalties too. So, if you have LOW checkers but have an opponent trying to dance through your defense, the CPU tends to try to hold if you don't stop the opponent && you have low check guys. But low checkers not being forced to hold I FIND get me less penalties. I watch Zep play, and he sits back by the goalie with the center. I think HIS PENALTY interaction/results will be 100% different than mine, because his style is so different.

I've listed SO many variables here I think it's obvious how you wouldn't get a straight, definitive answer. BUT, I do know that I have watched how I play/when I play with whom, and have been able to lesson my penalties if it's my focus.

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Thanks for you response. One comment about:

I've listed SO many variables here I think it's obvious how you wouldn't get a straight, definitive answer. BUT, I do know that I have watched how I play/when I play with whom, and have been able to lesson my penalties if it's my focus.

Yes, you mentioned a lot. One specific thing stands out: You say high checking means rating means more CPU hit attemps, and therefore PIMs, but also low checking means more holdinf penalties.

At the end of the day, do you think high checking means more PIMs or less? (Regardless of penalty type.)

My gut tells me high checking leads to more PIMs. Also, logic tells me that "aggressiveness" would lead to more PIMs, too, since Roughing and "being a little dirty" are in my mind tied to aggressiveness. But was I say, I have read it isn't used for anything?

If we can't get good answers in this thread, I will analyze some of the stats and try and make sense of it. (But that is hours of work versus getting replies here, which is much easier but possibly not meaningful?)

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that all seems about right. my understanding of "aggressiveness" is that is a reputation rating. so, if you are John Scott or Brad Marchand, all of those interactions would be factoring in a likelihood of the penalty being whistled. so, you need the contact, yes, but I think when that happens, Toffoli isn't going to have as frequent penalties because the referees don't know him like that. Shawn Thornton? less leeway. I think folks like myself and FPB/TRR have very high reputation ratings around here, so we get the whistles out when there is a judgement call to be made. does that make sense? I have no in-game proof -- it's just what I have come to believe over the years.

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I tried reviewing attributes as they relate to PIM back on the blitz94.com website a few years back, but I didn't find anything conclusive. There is though, a high correlation between checking and PIM (naturally), so to Brutus' point, the more checks the more PIM per game. Given a high check rating leads to more checks, boom!, perhaps a correlation.

Having said that, when you look at GDL records for 9 seasons, you will see it's the COACHES who repeatedly get the high PIM for seasons, and not with the same players. So playing style will affect this more than ever. It's not random, or else you wouldn't see that correlation. I aruged this here: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/15486-gdl-records/?p=158424, where we had 3 of the top 4 all-time PIM seasons in GDL 14.

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so, do you assert that there is zero correlation between penalties and aggression/reputation?

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so, do you assert that there is zero correlation between penalties and aggression/reputation?

In so far as I can tell just looking at the stats. Or rather, the coach would have an impact much greater than any individual attribute rating.

When you look at the PIM totals for players in a season, they fluctuate based on the Coach. Ray Bourque, for example, has had 56,56,58 PIM the last three seasons, all under Brutus. 38 for Kupuck, 42 for dexpsu, more more passive coaches. Just as an example.

You could make an even-steven ROM, change the aggression ratings for a few guys and run simulation seasons to see if anything comes out of that. At least 3-4 seasons would start to show some trend, if any on PIM.

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I wish... I must have gotten about two body checks total within my three seasons of Blitz. I still racked up a lot of penalties. I think the game gives power plays to coaches who are being dominated, which could be an explanation for why I get called for so many random penalties.

I think the game has a flag that will make the next interaction between two players result in a penalty for Team X. I think that flag can be altered by the CB check, but is completely random otherwise. There is really no real correlation between playing style and penalties (from what I know). Some games I get 16PIM, others I get 0.

I don't understand how I can have zero body checks, the most body checks against in the league and still get less PP time than PK. It makes no sense.

EDIT: That was for Blitz 11. Blitz 09 and 10 I had more PP than PK. But I still get penalized.

Edited by Premium

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y'all's leagues are great for this datamining stuff. I imagine it's a lot more fun than churning out simulations or trying to focus on which playstyles produce which outcomes in a more laboratory environment. so... thanks!

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I've seen some classic video of Ray Bourque having cleared out the entire net area by himself under CPU control. His HYPER checking rating makes him a guy that is almost better to NOT control, because he will put the hurting on the other team when under CPU control. HE will also obviously reach a lot more players with his speed and be in more interactions, and usually is in the tops of penalty leaders.

Bourque is HILARIOUS under AI control. He totally rampages around the ice.

I tried reviewing attributes as they relate to PIM back on the blitz94.com website a few years back, but I didn't find anything conclusive. There is though, a high correlation between checking and PIM (naturally), so to Brutus' point, the more checks the more PIM per game. Given a high check rating leads to more checks, boom!, perhaps a correlation.

Having said that, when you look at GDL records for 9 seasons, you will see it's the COACHES who repeatedly get the high PIM for seasons, and not with the same players. So playing style will affect this more than ever. It's not random, or else you wouldn't see that correlation. I aruged this here: http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/15486-gdl-records/?p=158424, where we had 3 of the top 4 all-time PIM seasons in GDL 14.

so, do you assert that there is zero correlation between penalties and aggression/reputation?

I also tried correlating attributes and PIMs and couldn't find anything. Goalie attributes were very clearly correlated with sv%, actually.

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