Making all advantages even for future seasons of Classic (GENS)

[Premium]

Can the future seasons of the Classic league be played with even advantages across the board? There is really no reason not to do it. It doesn't make sense to play in leagues designed to be fair and competitive with handicaps enabled for certain teams. The idea behind these leagues is that the best of the best are supposed to win.

I understand that Classic is the "un-altered" version of the game, but this is a change that falls in the same category as the 99-minute OT hack that is already used in the league so I don't see how that would matter anyway.

Not only that, but draft leagues are played with even advantages and nobody has asked for them to become uneven. Why do you think that is?

I don't believe this change will be harmful in anyway. It's meant to make the game more fun and competitive and I don't see how it wouldn't succeed in doing so.

[The Russian Rocket]

GOd can you f**k off and stop trying to change/diss classic cause you can't win in it

Edited July 7, 2016 by The Russian Rocket

[Premium]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply on a serious topic.

On the other note, I have registered for classic twice and won once.

[kingraph]

Classic will remain the same, but that idea could be used for a different league.

[Premium]

Is there any reason?

[kingraph]

Only reason is the classic league is defined as a league where you just use the original ROM, no hacks, mods. The playoff ROM is superfluous as classic already has a 10 minute OT (at least in GENS), so 99.99% of the time we really don't need the playoff ROM. Pretty sure you can see how altering home/away advantages is not in the same category as extending OT to prevent restarting a new game.

[Premium]

I don't see how that makes any sense as the Classic playoffs use a hacked and non-original version of the game.

If you don't need the 99min OT, why put it in especially if the league is supposed to have no hacks? Is it for save states? Use the Game Stitcher.

Like it or not, 99minOT is still a hack that makes the game different from the original version. What if you have a player that gets injured for the period in a 99-min OT? What if you lose on a powerplay that would have been killed off in a normal 10-min OT game?

A hack is a hack.

[smozoma]

The teams aren't even to begin with...

[Premium]

I understand that, but in a league that is designed to be fair and competitive.. why have handicaps?

The teams don't have to be the exact same.. but relatively close enough in skill so it can be competitive. That's why draft leagues (including yours) have a serpentine draft order.. It's not like you put it in there for fun. You put it in there ALONG with even advantages because you obviously felt it was the most fair thing to do.

I'm not asking to disable penalties, add line changes or change the goalie control delay, I'm asking to remove handicaps. Is that such a big problem? It makes the game more fun and that is a fact.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Premium

[aqualizard]

Only reason is the classic league is defined as a league where you just use the original ROM, no hacks, mods. The playoff ROM is superfluous as classic already has a 10 minute OT (at least in GENS), so 99.99% of the time we really don't need the playoff ROM. Pretty sure you can see how altering home/away advantages is not in the same category as extending OT to prevent restarting a new game.

Everyone here understands this and thinks it makes sense.

Anyone who does not, is pretending not to, and is trolling or being deliberately argumentative.

[Premium]

I don't understand why the community is always so reluctant to improvement. I've heard of not liking change, but I've never experienced so many people display hostility towards improvement of an activity they love. Why do people want to play an inferior version of the game so bad?

What is the big deal in making a change to improve the game?

I'm offering a solution that makes the game objectively better, fair, more competitive and thus more FUN. More fairness = more fun. Are people going to dislike the fact that the game is more fair, fun and rewarding?

Like it or not, the ROM is already hacked with a 99minOT hack. It's there to improve the flow of things and remove the nuisance of restarting a game and the PP/PK, hot/cold, etc.. Although it is a HACK and not "classic", it makes sense to have it in!! There would be no problem leaving it as it is, but it's still there despite classic not being for hacks.

So, why not just add another MINOR hack to remove another nuisance: the code in the game that sometimes puts one player at a DISADVANTAGE. It's not going to change any strategies, it won't make better players worse, or worse players better, it's not going to make goals easier or harder, it's not going to throw the game off its balance, it's just going to prevent the random games in which the advantage goes extreme. In a league that is designed for competitiveness and FAIRNESS, it makes no sense to play with the one sole option that deliberately handicaps one team and makes it UNFAIR!! That's why draft leagues don't play with uneven advantages, because obviously players want the leages to be FAIR and more fairness is always more fun.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Premium

[Bob Kudelski]

Brings new meaning to the term "classic argument".

[smozoma]

Classic was never fair/competitive even ignoring home/away/pp/pk... It's just the original game, hence "classic." OT hack is there purely so there is no tie (gameplay does not change at all)...

> the code in the game that sometimes puts one player at a DISADVANTAGE.

> it makes no sense to play with the one sole option that deliberately handicaps one team and makes it UNFAIR!!

So like how HFD doesn't have a star player, a definite disadvantage/handicap... let's add a hack that gives them Roenick..?

If you take away CHI's punishing home advantage... it's just not CHI anymore...

[angryjay93]

I understand that, but in a league that is designed to be fair and competitive.. why have handicaps?

The teams don't have to be the exact same.. but relatively close enough in skill so it can be competitive. That's why draft leagues (including yours) have a serpentine draft order.. It's not like you put it in there for fun. You put it in there ALONG with even advantages because you obviously felt it was the most fair thing to do.

I'm not asking to disable penalties, add line changes or change the goalie control delay, I'm asking to remove handicaps. Is that such a big problem? It makes the game more fun and that is a fact.

This was written just days before by plabax in the gdl roll call post

I want to play if and only if I get a top 15-16 pick (the only way to have a chance at winning)... thanks!

So...you complain about classic league and you complain about draft league.

I agree with what Raph said, go make your own rom and league with everything being equal. Rosters, presets, whatever.

[Premium]

Classic was never fair/competitive even ignoring home/away/pp/pk... It's just the original game, hence "classic." OT hack is there purely so there is no tie (gameplay does not change at all)...

> the code in the game that sometimes puts one player at a DISADVANTAGE.

> it makes no sense to play with the one sole option that deliberately handicaps one team and makes it UNFAIR!!

So like how HFD doesn't have a star player, a definite disadvantage/handicap... let's add a hack that gives them Roenick..?

If you take away CHI's punishing home advantage... it's just not CHI anymore...

Classic is DESIGNED to be fair/competitive as it's grouped into A/B and they even had the drafts organized by skill one year (I think).

There are enough teams with skill to the point where the gap between two teams will not be large enough to make a difference and it becomes a matter of preference. Enough with the BS. Everyone can grab a good team in a 12-man league.

Nobody is going to be picking HFD, and even if someone plays with them.. then it's obviously for a challenge.

I believe the best player will win with even advantages as long as he/she has a good team.

If you guys honestly don't see any problems with players who are CLEARLY nowhere near the highest level like Depch and Flasox taking out guys like Frey, Ice and Raph, then what can I say.

[Depch]

I am all about what plabax is saying, I made the call for static in classic too and used some of the same arguments, but perhaps classic should just be as it is. In an ideal world everyone could choose their own team strenghts to fit your playing style, its even since everyone can max out, but its for another league. I would probably not max out on offence, no clue does it really affect anything, but this because my poor play in gdl.

Excellent news btw. the ping averages 15-20ms lower from here to N.Y. (85ms when it was around 105ms) this will make many frame 5 games to 4 and some 6 to 5. Now I just need to get the flat and a computer.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Depch

[Uncle Seth]

I am all about what plabax is saying, I made the call for static in classic too and used some of the same arguments, but perhaps classic should just be as it is. In an ideal world everyone could choose their own team strenghts to fit your playing style, its even since everyone can max out, but its for another league. I would probably not max out on offence, no clue does it really affect anything, but this because my poor play in gdl.

Excellent news btw. the ping averages 15-20ms lower from here to N.Y. (85ms when it was around 105ms) this will make many frame 5 games to 4 and some 6 to 5. Now I just need to get the flat and a computer.

Depch, my static-rom advocate! We almost had it one year man!!!

I am in favor of all the changes Plab likes, be in classic or GDL. But I've given up hope that any changes would be made to either. So I don't push hard for them anymore.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Uncle Seth

[JackVandal]

I understand Plabs logic, and I know he can be ridiculous at times, but this was a serious, and well thought-out post, and I think its wrong to just throw dirt on him here. When he pops off on aim, sure, go nuts, but keep in mind that plabs is one of the most knowledgable budz we have, and hes making some valid points.

With that said, however, I am of the Raph and smoz faction. I like the randomness. Sometimes someone is just going to suck. Thats the poker element, and ultimately what makes something more exciting is that you can make all the right moves and still lose.

Thats axiomatic of life. Mark Lesser is a genius.

Also:

Nobody is going to be picking HFD, and even if someone plays with them.. then it's obviously for a challenge.

As (correct me if I'm wrong…) the only person to ever pick HFD in classic, he's right.


Edit: It should also be said that I would play classic no matter what changes ever happened. I'm always willing to concede to majority.

Edited July 23, 2016 by JackVandal

[Sebe_The_Legend]

why not just start a league where all the rom has players that have the same attributes. that would make everything equal.

[Premium]

Fair and equal are not the same thing... You can have fairness without equality and equality without fairness.

[CoachMac]

Already done!

http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16613-94-table-hockeyeven-teams-rom/

I don't get the attraction of this by the way.

Life is random.

Players are different night to night.

[JackVandal]

Yeah, I like to make up little stories about why they're hot/cold

"Zelepukin cold again…. He ought to stop doing blow"

[Premium]

Already done!

http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16613-94-table-hockeyeven-teams-rom/

I don't get the attraction of this by the way.

Life is random.

Players are different night to night.

It's not supposed to be random. The whole idea behind it is that the best player wins.

Players being different night to night does not justify losing to weaker players. At the end of the day the players are still being controlled, and when the game is fair, the better player wins regardless. I'm referring more to the extreme handicaps to the point where the game is as good as pre-determined.

It's obvious some of the top players think it's BS but they don't want to admit it because :

a ) agreeing with me and scarring their image

b ) too scared to voice their opinion

Are we really going to believe there is no problem when guys like kingraph and Icestorm lose to Depch in 5 games? The same kingraph who was disappointed when he lost to Freydey is cool with losing to Depch in 5 games? The same kingraph who put himself higher than Depch on the odds list despite having PITTSBURGH while Depch had BOSTON is cool with losing to Depch in 5 games? The same Icestorm who said "Depch is not that good" is cool with Iosing to Depch in 5 games? The same Icestorm who said my path to GDL 11 Finals was easy because I had to play Depch is cool with losing to Depch in 5 games?

How could you lose to a player in 5 games and then NOT think they are better than or at least as good as you?? To put it in perspective, I've played in the playoffs for GDL 9,10,11,12,13,14 and Blitz 09,10,11 and I've never lost in 5 games. The reason kingraph and Icestorm don't think Depch is on their level despite losing to them in 5 games is because... *drumroll*... I don't need to explain

To act like there is no problem is just BS.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Premium

[smozoma]

Classic

Is

And

Never

Was

And

DEFINITELY

Was

Not

Originally

Designed

To

Be

A

Totally

Fair

Best

Player

Wins

League

Every

Season

Is

Different

Based

On

What

Team

You

End

Up

With

It's

Really

Quite

Simple

[CoachMac]

The whole idea behind it is that the best player wins.

You have much to learn little fella.

The best don't always win.

Hard Work, Dedication, Teamwork, Match-ups, Injuries, Illness, Officiating, Luck, Bounces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_Ice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicester_City_F.C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Olympic_Men%27s_Basketball_Final

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_III

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabiscuit

[angryjay93]

Just save us a lot of time plabax and admit you think youre the best. Any league you enter and don't win is an automatic sham because the best didn't win.

Stop trying to cover up your crap with the thinnest of veils while taking potshots at the quality of other players in the community.

[The Russian Rocket]

Just save us a lot of time plabax and admit you think youre the best. Any league you enter and don't win is an automatic sham because the best didn't win.

Stop trying to cover up your crap with the thinnest of veils while taking potshots at the quality of other players in the community.

[aqualizard]

Nobody is going to be picking HFD, and even if someone plays with them.. then it's obviously for a challenge.

As (correct me if I'm wrong…) the only person to ever pick HFD in classic, he's right.

You stand corrected, Sir!

In fact many people have played Hartford in online Classic. I would say, when a draft goes beyond 10 teams it is even frequently chosen, according to records at nhl94online.com...

And in my opinion, Hartford is one of the best "lower tier" teams. Kind of a diamond in the rough, near the bottom of the bin.

[Brutus]

I just don't understand the why/ how all your arguments start with having to highlight someone as lower & end up being about you.

While I might be swayed to listen to an argument that Classic ( the name implies so much more than you seem to grasp) has flaws, I'm left not even wanting to discuss it because it gives merit to your degradation of another player's name.

You further arc off the line of reasonable logic to imply 2 reasons other elite coaches haven't publicly commented here in concurrence with you & miss the most obvious answer clear to everyone else:

Being a douche is just not something we all aspire to.

[kingraph]

Not that I want to get involved, but since my name was mentioned, I feel I should comment. While I think I can beat anybody, I have never complained about losses to Depch, Zalex, Frey, Ice, Seth, etc. Just wanted that to be clear.