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Uncle Seth

A Penalty Revolt

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I've had it with these refs. They are ridiculous. Most of them have brooms up their asses. Penalties for 2 minutes are too long when periods are 5 minutes each. It's unjust I tell you. We've all been the victim of games where the refs just ruin it for us, or the other team. Hitting is a great defensive tactic that oftentimes will not result in penalties, or result in an insane amount of them with guys piling up in the box. But whether you believe penalties are random (aka reality) or intentional (aka fantasy), there is no denying that even the best PK coaches get scored on 35-40% of the time when the other coach has the PP. Not only that, but even when one tries to score on a PK, it is difficult because players in AI mode do not set up in an offensive way. For years, we've had to keep penalties in the leagues because B-check is weakened if we took them out. Then Plabax hacked it to make it so you can remove penalties and have no ill effects on the B-check. Still, penalties are ever-present.

So what's this post all about you ask? We'll, I've always tried to score on the PK. And felt it was cheap/cheesy to waste time in my own end on the PK. However, I've reached my breaking point. I can no longer sit idle and allow this absurd reality to continue without taking action. So I'm here to announce an official revolt against penalties. From this point on, I will be doing whatever is necessary drain sand out of the hourglass (when shorthanded). That includes many of the following cheeseball techniques, including but not limited to: running around in my own end, skating backwards with it, icing it, flipping it out of play, freezing it with my goalie, and any combination of the above. I'm going to have fun with it and may even put out a specialized unit just for this task. And you know what, you should do it too. No need to feel guilty anymore.

Who else will join me? C'mon, be a part of something for once in your life! In the process, it can only help GAA, PK% and likely your Win%. Maybe eventually, people will become so fed up with clock wasting on the PK that the majority will lobby for the removal of penalties in future leagues. As an added benefit, my line changes in a league like this would be drastically cut down and across the board games will take less time to complete.

Let's kill penalties once and for all and put these refs in the unemployment line. The establishment isn't hearing our voices so it's time to take to the streets people.

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You sir are a clown. You scored the 2nd most pk goals last season in classic with 27.

On a serious note, do what you want on the pk. I don't demand people play a certain way so don't feel bad if you use that technique with me.

Meanwhile I will continue to attack on the pk. Generally over a season I will score close to the same amount on the pk as my opponent on the pp.I'll take my chances with that.

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Nah, I love PIMS< part of the game.

Nothing better is to score 3 on 5. I outscored my opponents PP goals with SH goals 36-31 in GDLXV. You outscored them 37-18, where's the probs????

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Yeah, Lupz, Skip & Atomic should consider skating backwards. Their numbers are atrocious.

BUT, only Habs had a better ShortHand Goals to Penalty Goals than Seth.

Habs 48 SH to 18 PK. WTF!?!?@?!!??

Seth 37 SH to 18 PK &&& you also had 43 PowerPlay goals to 11 ShortHand Goals against you.

75 Power plays to 72 Penalty Kills for Seth.

80 goals while in penalty or against vs 29 goals allowed.

That's a 2.75 goal for to goal vs ratio compared to your 1.69 ratio (You scored 278 goals not in a penalty situation and gave up 164 goals).

PLEASE!!!! Change your penalty tactics :)

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Seth, I am on phone so can't reply as well as I would like, but...

It is in poor form to stall like you describe. There is an etiquette thread that says this somewhere. Flipping puck is fine, but staying in your own zone and stalling is crap. The way the game is programmed it is hard to stop someone wasting time in their defensively zone.

This is Pandora's Box, my friend. You do this and weak players may consider stalling THE ENTIRE GAME hoping to win 1 0 on a single counter attack, or even play for a (soccer style) 0-0 tie!

Edited by aqualizard

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haha ANALYTICS! Seth performs better SH than at EV!!!!!! Give it up clown you've been exposed!

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I don't like the "PIMS are part of the game" argument. PIMS are IN the game, but they are not "part" of the game. We just happen to play with them. It's like how we don't play with line changes or offside. Aren't they part of the game too? In reality penalties are just something random that comes up. You can't commit a penalty intentionally. Some games you get no penalties, but others you can play the exact same way and get eight. Sometimes even regular defensive plays are called as penalties. Avoiding penalties should be a skill but you can't practice such a thing in NHL '94.

Penalties are supposed to penalize unfair play, but penalties almost never penalize any sort of dirty playing in NHL '94. There are penalties in the game like slashing but there is no command to slash. There are hooking penalties in the game but even hooking exclusively doesn't give hooking penalties. Same thing with tripping. Probably less than 5% of my trips are called as tripping penalties.

The problem with this to me is that goals are much easier to score on the power play. I feel like the game is rewarding a player with a high chance at scoring for something that was completely random. Not only that, but the power plays are far too long. It may as well be a free goal with how often power plays are successful. The power plays are 4x longer than their real life counterparts and thus go in at a much higher rate. It's the equivalent of an eight minute power play for a minor penalty in real life.

Penalties also stall the game.

I do convert at a very high rate on power plays, but I would rather not have them.

Edited by Premium

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yes playing on plabaxs pim-free b-check fixed rom was a real joy. The game had so much more flow to it, and it made the game more skill based, but more importantly less random.

Come on guys penalties are no fun, and can really screw someone over in a hard fought game 7

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I don't think it's fair to say penalties are truly random. I'm generally near the bottom in terms of pims nearly every season. If they were truly random id have more seasons near the top of the league.

With that said I'd be willing to consider shortening the length of penalties in gdl but id have zero interest in eliminating them.

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I wouldn't mind seeing a no-penalties league. Just hope holding/hooking doesn't become rampant (playing IceGuy was the worrrst because he would use those)

On the percentages...

Average game is 15min, with 4 goals for and against. So in any given minute, you have around a 27% likelihood of scoring. So for a PP to have a 35-40% scoring rate over 2 minutes (not sure how long the average PP is though, I didn't expose that stat on the Blitz site), it's not that dramatic of an increase. Highest PPG/GP in Blitz A career was 0.72. And he got 0.51 SHG scored against him.. 0.21 Goals per game net.

Those games where the refs go nuts on you really suck, though!

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So, my favorite moment is when Ray Bourque comes OUT of the box (where he is often it seems), and is NOW on the RW.

I become truly OBSESSED with scoring with him to the point where I generally start to play bad trying to stop the puck from becoming frozen and the team lines reset.

I generally give more GOALS up in this moment than I actually score, but is one of my favorite moments.

That said, I think it was in one of Coach's leagues, or TDL or something, but I did play with a 1 minute penalty setting to offset the fact that it's only 5 minute periods. I think there is potential to program these things SPECIFIC to say injury, goalie penalties, etc.

You could then have injury be a 5 minute penalty, but the rest only 1 minute.

HOWEVER, GDL would not be that league.

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I don't think it's fair to say penalties are truly random. I'm generally near the bottom in terms of pims nearly every season. If they were truly random id have more seasons near the top of the league.

With that said I'd be willing to consider shortening the length of penalties in gdl but id have zero interest in eliminating them.

You're near the bottom in pims because your 'bodychecks for per game' are near the bottom. The way I think it works is, every check has a certain % chance of being a penalty. You check (c/b/cb) less than most coaches, so it makes sense you dont take as much pims as most. Brutus has talked about this theory before saying pims are like rolling a die when you check

So you think because your playing style isnt check heavy that you deserve to be kind of rewarded for that? (with more pp time than pk time). I'm curious about your thoughts on this

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You're near the bottom in pims because your 'bodychecks for per game' are near the bottom. The way I think it works is, every check has a certain % chance of being a penalty. You check (c/b/cb) less than most coaches, so it makes sense you dont take as much pims as most. Brutus has talked about this theory before saying pims are like rolling a die when you check

So you think because your playing style isnt check heavy that you deserve to be kind of rewarded for that? (with more pp time than pk time). I'm curious about your thoughts on this

Yeah.. then there is Raph who gets 500 checks and doesn't get more PIMS than me who can't even hit close to 200. lol

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Yeah.. then there is Raph who gets 500 checks and doesn't get more PIMS than me who can't even hit close to 200. lol

dude you had the highest number of checks for per game in gdl 13 and 14

i think youre mistaken that you dont check very much

Edited by TomKabs93

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You're near the bottom in pims because your 'bodychecks for per game' are near the bottom. The way I think it works is, every check has a certain % chance of being a penalty. You check (c/b/cb) less than most coaches, so it makes sense you dont take as much pims as most. Brutus has talked about this theory before saying pims are like rolling a die when you check

So you think because your playing style isnt check heavy that you deserve to be kind of rewarded for that? (with more pp time than pk time). I'm curious about your thoughts on this

Yes, I think I do deserve to be rewarded for that. I put a premium on maintaining puck possession and playing a positional defensive game. It wouldn't be as appealing to play that style if I were penalized at the same level or more often then someone running around like a maniac.

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"if there was fighting there would be less penalties! "....KG Cherry

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You sir are a clown. You scored the 2nd most pk goals last season in classic with 27.

On a serious note, do what you want on the pk. I don't demand people play a certain way so don't feel bad if you use that technique with me.

Meanwhile I will continue to attack on the pk. Generally over a season I will score close to the same amount on the pk as my opponent on the pp.I'll take my chances with that.

I admit, I didn't look at my own stats here. It's still just extremely frustrating to be in the box all the time. And I will always think it's stupid to penalize one of the best aspects of hockey.......hitting. It's just such an important tool and excellent-timed/placed checks shouldn't be penalized SOOO much as it is in 94. I think dropping it down from 2min to 1min would ease a lot of the frustration.

Yes you should be rewarded for playing position, but a lot of us play position yet play aggressive too and hit when the time is right ....but still get penalized for it. Just going out of one's way to make a hit is risky in and of itself, a built in negative of being aggressive. I think pims are way overboard in occurrence and time spent in the box.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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haha ANALYTICS! Seth performs better SH than at EV!!!!!! Give it up clown you've been exposed!

LOL, good research boys. Of course I love scoring on the PK and it's extremely hard to resist trying to. I guess I can have my cake and eat it too, by wasting the s**t out of the clock and still making a rush if opportunity presents itself. We'll see.

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Not sure if "style" has as much as people think, but SOME button combo, draft tendency and style goes into it.

SKIP for the a 3 season average is WAY WAY ahead of all others in penalties (he's also PACING 95 plus penalties again for a 4th season).

Raph is normally towards the top. A few guys were high for one season but not all 3, but a team's style plus roster can also go into the equation.

And, last season Atomic was on the Powerplay 102 times and in GDL XIV, Zep was on it 103 times!!!

Most guys are sitting right around 70 to 75 penalties for & penalties against.

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So, my favorite moment is when Ray Bourque comes OUT of the box (where he is often it seems), and is NOW on the RW.

I become truly OBSESSED with scoring with him to the point where I generally start to play bad trying to stop the puck from becoming frozen and the team lines reset.

HOWEVER, GDL would not be that league.

hahah, that's been the word around town for a long time, that you get a Bork-boner.

we neeeeeed a new league

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yes playing on plabaxs pim-free b-check fixed rom was a real joy. The game had so much more flow to it, and it made the game more skill based, but more importantly less random.

Come on guys penalties are no fun, and can really screw someone over in a hard fought game 7

- sure wasn't fun at KO94 trying to mount a comeback against you in our elimination game and getting like 5 pims in the 3rd period.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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I don't like the "PIMS are part of the game" argument. PIMS are IN the game, but they are not "part" of the game. We just happen to play with them. It's like how we don't play with line changes or offside. Aren't they part of the game too? In reality penalties are just something random that comes up. You can't commit a penalty intentionally. Some games you get no penalties, but others you can play the exact same way and get eight. Sometimes even regular defensive plays are called as penalties. Avoiding penalties should be a skill but you can't practice such a thing in NHL '94.

Penalties are supposed to penalize unfair play, but penalties almost never penalize any sort of dirty playing in NHL '94. There are penalties in the game like slashing but there is no command to slash. There are hooking penalties in the game but even hooking exclusively doesn't give hooking penalties. Same thing with tripping. Probably less than 5% of my trips are called as tripping penalties.

The problem with this to me is that goals are much easier to score on the power play. I feel like the game is rewarding a player with a high chance at scoring for something that was completely random. Not only that, but the power plays are far too long. It may as well be a free goal with how often power plays are successful. The power plays are 4x longer than their real life counterparts and thus go in at a much higher rate. It's the equivalent of an eight minute power play for a minor penalty in real life.

Penalties also stall the game.

I do convert at a very high rate on power plays, but I would rather not have them.

nailed it

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It is in poor form to stall like you describe. There is an etiquette thread that says this somewhere. Flipping puck is fine, but staying in your own zone and stalling is crap. The way the game is programmed it is hard to stop someone wasting time in their defensively zone.

This is Pandora's Box, my friend. You do this and weak players may consider stalling THE ENTIRE GAME hoping to win 1 0 on a single counter attack, or even play for a (soccer style) 0-0 tie!

I believe the etiquette refers to deliberately stalling in your own end towards the end of the game, and/or at even strength with a lead.

The way the game is programmed, it's also hard to kill penalties without resorting to time-stalling. The way the game is programmed, it's difficult to possess in the offensive zone on the PK and find an open man in a scoring area. That's why an overwhelming majority of shorthanded goals are unassisted. The game is programmed so on the PK, (on AI) your offensive players will not tread into the prime scoring real estate. Your teammates are literally on a different agenda, by design. So I'm going to start listening to them by doing what they want, which is to worry about getting rid of the pim first (at any cost), and scoring 2nd.

It's difficult to avoid taking penalties unless you play an extremely passive style of D. It's difficult to swallow the fact that the a large % of penalties are taken by AI, random luck. It's complete lunacy to have guys in the box all game long, or multiple guys as often as it occurs. In real hockey, the goal is to kill the penalty, in any way possible. I'm just adopting that approach now.

I do draw the line at stalling during even strength though, at least for me personally. If someone wants to stall an entire game, I'm sure they will get assaulted in the AIM chat and have to answer for it. I don't think it opens Pandora's box though. I wanted to announce my change of plans so no one is caught by surprise. And I know there are many more people who despise PIMS but are hesitant to speak up about it publicly for whatever reason. They too think it's an absolute joke sometimes.

Edited by Uncle Seth

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dude you had the highest number of checks for per game in gdl 13 and 14

i think youre mistaken that you dont check very much

Those include checks after the whistle.. I know I don't check very much.

My #1 PIM accumulator in Blitz 11 (Petr Svoboda) was rank #34 in checks for league-wide yet led the league in PIMs. If body checks had true correlation, the players with the highest body checks would be way ahead of the guys who had some of the lowest numbers.

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Seth smashes checking buttons like he's having a seizure and he's surprised he gets lots'o'penalties lolz

Also to explain it to Plabax pea sized brain for the 992942230th time:

Penalties are also affected by unsuccessful check attempts which are not registered and unsuccessful checks yield more penalties on aggregate than successful ones.

Edited by The Russian Rocket

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Seth smashes checking buttons like he's having a seizure and he's surprised he gets lots'o'penalties lolz

Also to explain it to Plabax pea sized brain for the 992942230th time:

Penalties are also affected by unsuccessful check attempts which are not registered and unsuccessful checks yield more penalties on aggregate than successful ones.

omg youre a genius, I never thought of that

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Seth smashes checking buttons like he's having a seizure and he's surprised he gets lots'o'penalties lolz

Also to explain it to Plabax pea sized brain for the 992942230th time:

Penalties are also affected by unsuccessful check attempts which are not registered and unsuccessful checks yield more penalties on aggregate than successful ones.

And if unsuccessful check attempts were recorded I would most likely have the lowest or near the lowest. I don't get many unsuccessful checks, I definitely average less than one unsuccessful check a game.

The only time I go for body checks (in Blitz) is when players are against the boards. I literally never or almost never even try to hit people in open ice with a body check.

Edited by Premium

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And if unsuccessful check attempts were recorded I would most likely have the lowest or near the lowest. I don't get many unsuccessful checks, I definitely average less than one unsuccessful check a game.

The only time I go for body checks (in Blitz) is when players are against the boards. I literally never or almost never even try to hit people in open ice with a body check.

That isn't actual data. That's just your feelings/very limited biases experience viewpoint. Maybe you didn't but the CPU did and Svoboda will almost never get a positive check which will yield dumb penalties like ''slashing''

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ayyyy piss off

i wasnt being sarcastic! That really is smart

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