The Sauce

NHL 2019 Season ROM by The Sauce

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46 minutes ago, Jkline3 said:

I appreciate the thought put into the goalie ratings.  I've been guilty of oversimplifying at times into "good goalie", "average goalie" and "bad goalie" because the effects of the ratings haven't been documented and discussed nearly as well as those for the skaters.

I more of less do the same.  Like you say, it's tricky to edit a goalie as the attribute effects are not widely known and there aren't as many options to rate like a forward or D.  Certainly not like we can with today's EA hockey games or the now defunct 2K series.  I guess there's no need to edit the 5 hole, glove/blocker and/or left/right pad attributes if we can't aim where we want the puck to go via a shot.

I also have a tier structure that I work with... 82, 77, 72, 67, 62, 57, 52, 47 & 42.  I don't go beyond 82 because I feel goalies in the 90s become too super human.  The problem I have is, we can't rate goalies like forwards or D in the sense that there are no elite goalies anymore - I don't care what anyone says, there isn't.  That era ended with Hasek, Roy and Brodeur and to a lesser extent, Lundqvist and Luongo who are now in decline.  Guys like Price or Bobrovsky or Rinne can be elite for a season or two and the very next season, be average or even suck!  There just isn't any superstar consistency in that position anymore.  You can list out the top 20 players in the NHL and how many would include a goalie these days?  That said, I use the tiers which have OVR separated by a value of 5 so that I can easily slide a guy up or down the values based on how they are trending over a 3 year range.  I don't get too worked up about it as there isn't much difference between a 72 and a 77.  I'll likely re-evaluate the position, and rating it, in the offseason.

 

Edited by The Sauce

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1 hour ago, The Sauce said:

I more of less do the same.  Like you say, it's tricky to edit a goalie as the attribute effects are not widely known and there aren't as many options to rate like a forward or D.  Certainly not like we can with today's EA hockey games or the now defunct 2K series.  I guess there's no need to edit the 5 hole, glove/blocker and/or left/right pad attributes if we can't aim where we want the puck to go via a shot.

I also have a tier structure that I work with... 82, 77, 72, 67, 62, 57, 52, 47 & 42.  I don't go beyond 82 because I feel goalies in the 90s become too super human.  The problem I have is, we can't rate goalies like forwards or D in the sense that there are no elite goalies anymore - I don't care what anyone says, there isn't.  That era ended with Hasek, Roy and Brodeur and to a lesser extent, Lundqvist and Luongo who are now in decline.  Guys like Price or Bobrovsky or Rinne can be elite for a season or two and the very next season, be average or even suck!  There just isn't any superstar consistency in that position anymore.  You can list out the top 20 players in the NHL and how many would include a goalie these days?  That said, I use the tiers which have OVR separated by a value of 5 so that I can easily slide a guy up or down the values based on how they are trending over a 3 year range.  I don't get too worked up about it as there isn't much difference between a 72 and a 77.  I'll likely re-evaluate the position, and rating it, in the offseason.

 

I really like your methodology with the goalies and feel they respond realistically in your ROM.  For the most part, they don't wander out of the net unless they can safely play a puck.  My sampling size is small so far - about 12 games - but the games have produced sim-like experiences with scores to match.  I completely agree there are no superstar goalies anymore and appreciate the absence of any 'Goalie Gods' who are akin to a brick wall no matter what you do.  Every season seems to have their strong performers, including out-of-nowhere candidates like Robin Lehner, which is just a great story for athletes in general.  My biggest gripe in hockey video games are the "cheap" goals, which do happen in the NHL but with unrealistic frequency in the video games.  I think keeping the goalies close to their net is a credit to addressing this, so fine work on your end.  Really appreciate your thought process and desire for realism.

I had one game where I took 5 penalties in the first period and injured two players.  I attributed this to me being an aggressive checker and wonder if maybe I should utilize the poke check more often?  Guys do get leveled in the NHL, but I doubt with the frequency I dish out.  I've just utilized the check option because it's there but ultimately I'm looking to mirror as close to the NHL as possible.

Edited by Iceisles

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5 minutes ago, Iceisles said:

I really like your methodology with the goalies and feel they respond realistically in your ROM.  For the most part, they don't wander out of the net unless they can safely play a puck.  My sampling size is small so far - about 12 games - but the games have produced sim-like experiences with scores to match.  I completely agree there are no superstar goalies anymore and appreciate the absence of any 'Goalie Gods' who are akin to a brick wall no matter what you do.  Every season seems to have their strong performers, including out-of-nowhere candidates like Robin Lehner, which is just a great story for athletes in general.  My biggest gripe in hockey video games are the "cheap" goals, which do happen in the NHL but with unrealistic frequency in the video games.  I think keeping the goalies close to their net is a credit to this, so fine work on your end.  Really appreciate your thought process and desire for realism.

I had one game where I took 5 penalties in the first period and injured two players.  I attributed this to me being an aggressive checker and wonder if maybe I should utilize the poke check more often?  Guys do get leveled in the NHL, but I doubt with the frequency I dish out.  I've just utilized the check option because it's there but ultimately I'm looking to mirror as close to the NHL as possible.

To your point, you will always see a higher amount of checks or shots if you control the team.  I mean, who hasn't had a period where you focused more on trying to kill other players than score goals?  That said, I had a sim league with some friends, and use simming to better understand the CPU side, and noticed improvement in that environment.

Your mention of Lehner also reinforces why it is difficult to rate goalies.  The dude, in theory, should be ranked a 90 with his current stats.  As should David Rittich.  But, are either really what you would think of when we discuss someone rated a 90?  Heck no.  It's another reason why I rate on a 3 year average with the occasional concession here and there.  NHL.com allows you to see stats over a select amount of years.  I helps you better understand why rating a guy like Lehner so high isn't realistic to me (IMO).  Afterall, would he be a 90 on other teams?

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6 minutes ago, The Sauce said:

To your point, you will always see a higher amount of checks or shots if you control the team.  I mean, who hasn't had a period where you focused more on trying to kill other players than score goals?  That said, I had a sim league with some friends, and use simming to better understand the CPU side, and noticed improvement in that environment.

Your mention of Lehner also reinforces why it is difficult to rate goalies.  The dude, in theory, should be ranked a 90 with his current stats.  As should David Rittich.  But, are either really what you would think of when we discuss someone rated a 90?  Heck no.  It's another reason why I rate on a 3 year average with the occasional concession here and there.  NHL.com allows you to see stats over a select amount of years.  I helps you better understand why rating a guy like Lehner so high isn't realistic to me (IMO).  Afterall, would he be a 90 on other teams?

Lehner's having a great season but I attribute much of that success to Trotz's system and the goaltending coach that came with him.  I'll take Lehner's GAA any day but no, he wouldn't be a 90 on other teams. 

I remember growing up and watching Roy, wondering how anyone could be that good night in and night out.  We don't have that kind of netminder anymore, IMO.

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Rather than a "3 year average" maybe use a 3 year weighted average.

Year     Team  GP  GAA   SV%    Wgt  GPxWgt  GAAxGPxWgt  SV%xGPxWgt
2016-17   BUF  59  2.68  0.920    1      59      158.12      54.280
2017-18   BUF  53  3.01  0.908    2     106      319.06      96.248
2018-19   NYI  29  2.02  0.932    3      87      175.74      81.084
TOTAL                                   252      652.92     231.612
WGT AVG                                            2.59       0.919

(plus whatever team-based adjustments might be warranted...)

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34 minutes ago, smozoma said:

Rather than a "3 year average" maybe use a 3 year weighted average.


Year     Team  GP  GAA   SV%    Wgt  GPxWgt  GAAxGPxWgt  SV%xGPxWgt
2016-17   BUF  59  2.68  0.920    1      59      158.12      54.280
2017-18   BUF  53  3.01  0.908    2     106      319.06      96.248
2018-19   NYI  29  2.02  0.932    3      87      175.74      81.084
TOTAL                                   252      652.92     231.612
WGT AVG                                            2.59       0.919

(plus whatever team-based adjustments might be warranted...)

Perhaps, I’ll explore it in the off-season.  It’s worth considering.  For now, I’m very satisfied with how I’m doing it but, that doesn’t mean I’m not open to researching more ideas and seeing what the end result may be.

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