halifax 330 Report post Posted February 5, 2019 For the next King of 94, We’ll be moving towards a tiered system. Coin flip. 1. Losing player chooses tier and is visitor. 2. Winning player chooses team from that tier or a team from a tier below and is home. 3. Losing player chooses a team from that tier or a team from a tier below not already chosen. This will give players more options to pick the team they want. There is still some strategy involved if you are trying to restrict a player using his favourite team by picking a lower tier. It removes having to track which match ups you previously picked which was too hard to track. How I came up with a tiered system below. I used team selection choices from past king of 94 matchups. In theory, by running it through a gauntlet of team choices it would be able to give me a better idea of tiered choices people selected and therefore hopefully removing any personal bias on team selection (which I think it did in the end). I ran it through a couple of times to narrow down tiers. Here's what it came up with. SNES Tier 1 - PIT, DET, CHI, BOS Tier 2 - VAN, NYR, CAL, LA Tier 3 - MTL, BUF, QUE, WIN Tier 4 - WAS, TOR, PHI Tier 5 - STL, NJ, DAL Tier 6 - EDM, NYI, HAR Tier 7 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA SEGA Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF Tier 2 - VAN, LA, MTL Tier 3 - CAL, BOS, WIN Tier 4 - NYR, QUE, DAL, TOR Tier 5 - PHI, PIT, STL, WSH Tier 6 - EDM, NJD, HFD, NYI TIer 7 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edge of '94 Midwest 157 Report post Posted February 5, 2019 We made the switch after having so much success doing this with Tecmo Super Bowl, an idea we got from The Retro Sports Gamer. Since then, they'e adopted the same strategy with other games like RBI Baseball and NBA Jam. Less experienced players aren't immediately handicapped by choosing a potentially lopsided matchup. We did however have the coin toss winner choose the tier, and the loser gets away but first team choice. Our tiers are a bit different too, but hey, that's the spice of 94 baby! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbettkb 67 Report post Posted February 5, 2019 Maybe tighten this up a little bit... SEGA: Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF Tier 2 - VAN, WIN, MTL, BOS, LA, DAL, CAL Tier 3 - NYR, TOR, PHI, EDM, QUE, PIT Tier 4 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI Tier 5 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingraph 591 Report post Posted February 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, corbettkb said: Maybe tighten this up a little bit... SEGA: Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF Tier 2 - VAN, WIN, MTL, BOS, LA, DAL, CAL Tier 3 - NYR, TOR, PHI, EDM, QUE, PIT Tier 4 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI Tier 5 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA VAN Tier 1, DAL Tier 3, imo. Otherwise I like the tighter list. Also, CAL = CGY, WIN = WPG, , Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbettkb 67 Report post Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, kingraph said: VAN Tier 1, DAL Tier 3, imo. Otherwise I like the tighter list. Also, CAL = CGY, WIN = WPG, , Ok, so.... SEGA: Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, LA, CGY Tier 3 - DAL, NYR, TOR, PHI, EDM, QUE, PIT Tier 4 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI Tier 5 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA Guess other question from me, should PIT be in Tier4? Edited February 6, 2019 by corbettkb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingraph 591 Report post Posted February 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, corbettkb said: Guess other question from me, should PIT be in Tier4? For casual players, PIT is tier 4. But skilled players can be deadly with that talent. Not just C/B, but all those skills with 66 & 68, so I think 3 is okay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halifax 330 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 The first time I saw the tiered system was sometime after Toronto and before Vegas, from a Tecmo tournament called the tomczak bowl. http://tecmotourney.blogspot.com/p/team-tiers.html I liked the idea and Mikey and I talked about it, but then ultimately decided to remain with calling the match up. As per the suggestions above, I think if we asked everyone to come up with a list, everyone would come up with a different list, which, is adding their personal bias much like the suggestions above. I started with a 5 tier list for both systems and ended up with 7 as I was trying to remove my own opinions of who I thought should be where, but rather use a bunch of "data points". After one run through, if i found a team was in a lower tier but played the bulk of their teams in above tiers, that gave me the impression they should be moved up and conversely some teams moved down. I ran it through again and in the end, I added two more tiers based on what I was seeing In Sega, it was showing a lot of situations where tier 2 teams were playing tier 1 teams as well as tier 3 teams. However there was a lost less matches between those in tier 3 against tier 1. So it seem logical to me to create a separate tier for those specific teams. I also think by stretching out to 6 or 7 teams in a group, there's going to be many teams not used. Guys will just pick the best two teams from that group most of the time since the match up selection is no longer required. With 7 tiers, you still have the option to select a tier 2 team and still play against a tier 3 team should they choose to do so. I also think the tier can change over time, (which it seems to have with the tomzcak bowl on version 7). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbettkb 67 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) hmm, like the more compact groups, i also dont feel like there are two definitively better teams that can be pinpointed in any of five tier settings. tho id be more worried that youll just hear tier1 called over and over again with CHIvsDET. Edited February 7, 2019 by corbettkb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingraph 591 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 Here is my analysis of KO94 1, tiers matter in so much that people don't stray too far. All of this is based on "average" players. Clearly forum/experienced players in Genesis will do just fine: https://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/17128-king-of-94-super-happy-fun-stats/&do=findComment&comment=158199 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halifax 330 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 9 hours ago, corbettkb said: hmm, like the more compact groups, i also dont feel like there are two definitively better teams that can be pinpointed in any of five tier settings. tho id be more worried that youll just hear tier1 called over and over again with CHIvsDET. Good point. I know in the tomczak bowl, they roll a dice that determines the tier selected. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skip 139 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 SEGA, if you need 6 for dice rolls:Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VANTier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, CGYTier 3 - LA, DAL, TOR, QUE, PIT Tier 4 - NYR, PHI, EDM, STLTier 5 - WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI Tier 6 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomKabs93 46 Report post Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) I actually like your tiers and choices hali. You guys really think Dallas is that bad? Why? Yes they are flawed, but they have both speed and talent up front. I personally think I would take Dallas over most of the tier 2 teams, but I'm also stuck in 2015...more like 2013 lol Imo Dallas rolls over teams like PHI TOR QUE Edited February 7, 2019 by TomKabs93 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbettkb 67 Report post Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) Using skips 6 tiers for a dice roll... SEGA : Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, LA Tier 3 - CGY, DAL, TOR, NYR Tier 4 - QUE, PIT, PHI, EDM Tier 5 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI Tier 6 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA Getting closer... - Comments? - For/Against having random team drawn for each player once a tier is established? Edited February 8, 2019 by corbettkb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skip 139 Report post Posted February 10, 2019 On 2/8/2019 at 2:43 PM, corbettkb said: Using skips 6 tiers for a dice roll... SEGA : Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, LA Tier 3 - CGY, DAL, TOR, NYR Tier 4 - QUE, PIT, PHI, EDM Tier 5 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI Tier 6 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA Getting closer... - Comments? - For/Against having random team drawn for each player once a tier is established? Nice. I'd say against. You need to have some control over who you use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jer_33 197 Report post Posted February 11, 2019 3 things to consider: I think you could allow both, allow for a coinflip winner to choose the tier - or leave it to a dice roll Make the dice roll simply a guide, do not enforce it as a "rule" I really think the bottom tier should not be included in the dice roll - create 6 tiers that exclude OTT/SJ/FLA/ANA. Maybe put TB in the 6th tier With regards to these ideas, I just would hate to see a deciding game roll a "6" and have to watch an important game decided by shitty teams because of "rules". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbettkb 67 Report post Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, jer_33 said: With regards to these ideas, I just would hate to see a deciding game roll a "6" and have to watch an important game decided by shitty teams because of "rules". ohh yea, that makes alot of sense. back to the winner of the flip picks the tier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
