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halifax

Tiered Teams - SNES and SEGA

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For the next King of 94, We’ll  be moving towards a tiered system.

Coin flip.

1. Losing player chooses tier and is visitor.

2. Winning player chooses team from that tier or a team from a tier below and is home.

3. Losing player chooses a team from that tier or a team from a tier below not already chosen.

This will give players more options to pick the team they want. There is still some strategy involved if you are trying to restrict a player using his favourite team by picking a lower tier. It removes having to track which match ups you previously picked which was too hard to track.

How I came up with a tiered system below. I used team selection choices from past king of 94 matchups. In theory, by running it through a gauntlet of team choices it would be able to give me a better idea of tiered choices people selected and therefore hopefully removing any personal bias on team selection (which I think it did in the end). I ran it through a couple of times to narrow down tiers. Here's what it came up with.

SNES

Tier 1 - PIT, DET, CHI, BOS

Tier 2 - VAN, NYR, CAL, LA

Tier 3 - MTL, BUF, QUE, WIN

Tier 4 - WAS, TOR, PHI

Tier 5 - STL, NJ, DAL

Tier 6 - EDM, NYI, HAR

Tier 7 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

 

SEGA

Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF

Tier 2 - VAN, LA, MTL

Tier 3 - CAL, BOS, WIN

Tier 4 - NYR, QUE, DAL, TOR

Tier 5 - PHI, PIT, STL, WSH

Tier 6 - EDM, NJD, HFD, NYI

TIer 7 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

 

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We made the switch after having so much success doing this with Tecmo Super Bowl, an idea we got from The Retro Sports Gamer.  Since then, they'e adopted the same strategy with other games like RBI Baseball and NBA Jam.  Less experienced players aren't immediately handicapped by choosing a potentially lopsided matchup.  We did however have the coin toss winner choose the tier, and the loser gets away but first team choice.  Our tiers are a bit different too, but hey, that's the spice of 94 baby!

 

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Maybe tighten this up a little bit...

 SEGA:
Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF
Tier 2 - VAN, WIN, MTL, BOS, LA, DAL, CAL
Tier 3 - NYR, TOR, PHI, EDM, QUE, PIT  
Tier 4 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI
Tier 5 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

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16 minutes ago, corbettkb said:

Maybe tighten this up a little bit...

 SEGA:
Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF
Tier 2 - VAN, WIN, MTL, BOS, LA, DAL, CAL
Tier 3 - NYR, TOR, PHI, EDM, QUE, PIT  
Tier 4 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI
Tier 5 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

VAN Tier 1, DAL Tier 3, imo.  Otherwise I like the tighter list. 

Also, CAL = CGY, WIN = WPG, ,:D

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3 hours ago, kingraph said:

VAN Tier 1, DAL Tier 3, imo.  Otherwise I like the tighter list. 

Also, CAL = CGY, WIN = WPG, ,:D

Ok, so....

  SEGA:
Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN
Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, LA, CGY
Tier 3 - DAL, NYR, TOR, PHI, EDM, QUE, PIT  
Tier 4 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI
Tier 5 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

Guess other question from me, should PIT be in Tier4?

Edited by corbettkb

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29 minutes ago, corbettkb said:

Guess other question from me, should PIT be in Tier4?

For casual players, PIT is tier 4.  But skilled players can be deadly with that talent.  Not just C/B, but all those skills with 66 & 68, so I think 3 is okay.

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The first time I saw the tiered system was sometime after Toronto and before Vegas, from a Tecmo tournament called the tomczak bowl.

http://tecmotourney.blogspot.com/p/team-tiers.html

I liked the idea and Mikey and I talked about it, but then ultimately decided to remain with calling the match up.

As per the suggestions above, I think if we asked everyone to come up with a list, everyone would come up with a different list, which, is adding their personal bias much like the suggestions above.

I started with a 5 tier list for both systems and ended up with 7 as I was trying to remove my own opinions of who I thought should be where, but rather use a bunch of "data points". After one run through, if i found a team was in a lower tier but played the bulk of their teams in above tiers, that gave me the impression they should be moved up and conversely some teams moved down. I ran it through again and in the end, I added two more tiers based on what I was seeing

In Sega, it was showing a lot of situations where tier 2 teams were playing tier 1 teams as well as tier 3 teams. However there was a lost less matches between those in tier 3 against tier 1. So it seem logical to me to create a separate tier for those specific teams.

I also think by stretching out to 6 or 7 teams in a group, there's going to be many teams not used. Guys will just pick the best two teams from that group most of the time since the match up selection is no longer required.

With 7 tiers, you still have the option to select a tier 2 team and still play against a tier 3 team should they choose to do so.

I also think the tier can change over time, (which it seems to have with the tomzcak bowl on version 7).

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hmm, like the more compact groups, i also dont feel like there are two definitively better teams that can be pinpointed in any of five tier settings.  tho id be more worried that youll just hear tier1 called over and over again with CHIvsDET.

Edited by corbettkb

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Here is my analysis of KO94 1, tiers matter in so much that people don't stray too far.  All of this is based on "average" players.  Clearly forum/experienced players in Genesis will do just fine: https://forum.nhl94.com/index.php?/topic/17128-king-of-94-super-happy-fun-stats/&do=findComment&comment=158199

 

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9 hours ago, corbettkb said:

hmm, like the more compact groups, i also dont feel like there are two definitively better teams that can be pinpointed in any of five tier settings.  tho id be more worried that youll just hear tier1 called over and over again with CHIvsDET.

Good point. I know in the tomczak bowl, they roll a dice that determines the tier selected.

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SEGA, if you need 6 for dice rolls:
Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN
Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, CGY
Tier 3 - LA, DAL, TOR, QUE, PIT  
Tier 4 - NYR, PHI, EDM, STL
Tier 5 - WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI

Tier 6 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

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I actually like your tiers and choices hali. You guys really think Dallas is that bad? Why? Yes they are flawed, but they have both speed and talent up front. I personally think I would take Dallas over most of the tier 2 teams, but I'm also stuck in 2015...more like 2013 lol 

Imo Dallas rolls over teams like PHI TOR QUE

Edited by TomKabs93

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Using skips 6 tiers for a dice roll...

   SEGA :
Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN
Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, LA
Tier 3 - CGY, DAL, TOR, NYR
Tier 4 - QUE, PIT, PHI, EDM
Tier 5 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI
Tier 6 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

Getting closer...

- Comments?
- For/Against having random team drawn for each player once a tier is established?

 

Edited by corbettkb

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On 2/8/2019 at 2:43 PM, corbettkb said:

Using skips 6 tiers for a dice roll...

   SEGA :
Tier 1 - DET, CHI, BUF, VAN
Tier 2 - WPG, MTL, BOS, LA
Tier 3 - CGY, DAL, TOR, NYR
Tier 4 - QUE, PIT, PHI, EDM
Tier 5 - STL, WSH, NJD, HFD, NYI
Tier 6 - OTT, SJ, TB, FLA, ANA

Getting closer...

- Comments?
- For/Against having random team drawn for each player once a tier is established?

 

Nice. I'd say against. You need to have some control over who you use. 

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3 things to consider:

  • I think you could allow both, allow for a coinflip winner to choose the tier - or leave it to a dice roll
  • Make the dice roll simply a guide, do not enforce it as a "rule"
  • I really think the bottom tier should not be included in the dice roll - create 6 tiers that exclude OTT/SJ/FLA/ANA. Maybe put TB in the 6th tier

With regards to these ideas, I just would hate to see a deciding game roll a "6" and have to watch an important game decided by shitty teams because of "rules".

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3 hours ago, jer_33 said:

With regards to these ideas, I just would hate to see a deciding game roll a "6" and have to watch an important game decided by shitty teams because of "rules".

ohh yea, that makes alot of sense.  back to the winner of the flip picks the tier.

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