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Team lineup with automatic line changes


Limpan

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Hey!
 
A new world was opened for me when I started reading this forum a few weeks ago. I had probably read somewhere that there was a weight bug, but didn't think much more about it and thought that Lemiuex was the best because he has 100 in rating.
I have always played with Pittsburgh but now it is tempting to try Detroit or maybe some other "faster" and less "fat" team ..

Building Lines with AJ is absolutely incredible, hat off for an amazingly detailed job @
angryjay93. But me and my friends play an NHL 94 tournament once a year and then with Automatic Line Changes and penalties. It is frustrating sometimes of course but at the same time fun that you have to master even the worse players.

It is a big job, but how would you distribute the players in, for example, Pittsburgh or Detroit, in order to optimize the chances of winning. Would you put the best players in line1, the second best in line2 and then the third best in line3? Or would you spread the knowledge a little more between the lines?
 
Basically, how would your team lineup look with Automatic Line Changes!? With explanation :-) I think it would be fun with answers and discussion about this! If there isn't already somewhere I missed?

Hope you understand my question, please ask otherwise! 

 
This is only the Genesis version (Mega Drive in Sweden)

(Excuse me if something is misspelled etc)
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Havent used line changes much but usually i try to split my guys to create the best two lines i can and then kinda cobble together a third line with whats left with the intent to use that third line the least.

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I haven't used line changes in a while as well, but assuming you are using longer than 5 minute periods, I''d stack 2 lines and keep my checking line weak, but perhaps one good guy at C.  You can cycle through 2 lines for most of the game, so I don't think it's necessary to put top guys on your 3rd line.  Similarly, I think it's more important to have a 2nd line C and LW than your 3rd F on first line.

As I'm thinking about it more, I'd probably do something like this in order of player strength.  This is very general, and obviously can tweak based on individual team preferences

1st C
1st LW
2nd C
2nd LW
1st RW
Chk C
2nd RW
Chk LW
Chk RW

1st LD
2nd LD
1st RD
2nd RD
Chk LD
Chk RD

Personally I like to have a strong shot at C, strong stick or speed at LW/RW.  

For Detroit, my lineup would probably be as follows

Fedorov - Yzerman - Kozlov - Coffey - Lidstrom/Chaisson
Ysebaert - Ciccarelli - Probert - Chiasson/Lidstrom - Racine
Ogrodnick - Drake - Sheppard - Konstantinov - Howe

This is just plainly looking at the roster and typing it out.  After a few actual games, I may tweak a few players that might play better with each other, perhaps swap some positions.  

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First off I'd like to thank you for taking the time out to read the various posts and to go even further by asking a question. Before I found the site I actually spent most of my time playing the computer with line changes and offsides on. I know auto line changes are a bit different than manual since the CPU likes to match the checking line against Sc1, especially when a team is leading so its pretty important to make sure you have some quality guys on that Chk line. 

I think Raph gives you a pretty solid break down on how to value your roster spots. I think the extra things I would throw in are skating and endurance would take a higher premium for me than usual. With line changes on, you cant really slam on the C button to get those turbo boosts, otherwise your team is gonna be gassed in short order, especially those low endurance guys. If you combine poor skating with poor endurance then you can be in serious trouble. Luckily Detroit avoids this problem for the most part, Pittsburgh will be a bit more tricky.

My Detroit lines:

SC 1: Fedorov-Yzerman-Probert

SC 2: Ysebaert-Ciccarelli-Ogrodnick

Chk: Drake-Kennedy-Kozlov

Coffey-Konstantinov

Lidstrom-Chiasson

Howe-Racine

I would try to avoid Ray Sheppard as he is slow and his endurance is below average. Also, I'd try to beef up my Chk line with my best defensive players which the 3 I've included are the best defensive forwards for Detroit and they have just enough skill to take advantage of a team that is pressing for a goal. Not too many differences from Raph, so I don't think you can go wrong with either set.

As for Pitt...

SC 1: Stevens-Lemieux-Mullen

SC 2: Jagr-Francis-McEachern

Chk: Tippett-Tocchet-Straka

U. Samuelsson-Stanton

Paek-Murphy

Ramsey-K. Samuelsson

Pittsburgh really tests my theories as they have several slow, heavy, and low endurance players. Line 1: Lemieux and Stevens both have very high endurance and should be a good combo together because they can keep up with each other. Mullen gives nice weight variety as he is easily the lightest player on this line, he has a scoring touch to boot. I think the D pair here is the most balanced Pittsburgh can offer and it doesn't make the line too heavy by inserting Murphy over Stanton. Plus, Stanton is just a poor mans Murphy so I dont think you lose much.

Line 2: Jagr and Francis should do well with each other as Francis is essentially the best offensive weapon left on the roster for Jagr to feed. McEachern is a role player with good endurance who can keep up with the pace of play and pot his easy chances. Murphy is an obvious choice as he is the best defender remaining, he should be able to further boost this line offensively where needed. Where Pittsburgh really struggles is with its 4th D man, they do not have a good option but Paek is probably the best of the bunch as he has decent endurance and is the fastest remaining player to choose from.

Chk: It's really hard to put together a traditional checking line here as the Pens simply do not have the personnel available. Tippett is a well below average player but hes the only player with decent skating as well as some endurance. Tocchet is a skilled player but is incredibly slow and heavy. He doesn't really fit in well with anyone so he kind of needs some lightweight guys to carry him around. Straka is the best checker in Pittsburgh but his endurance is extremely low so you really have to pick your spots with him to be effective. The defense is just the best of the rest as Ramsey has acceptable agility and endurance ratings. K. Smauelsson should be fine in his own zone but he's liability in transition or with the puck on his stick. You'll want Kjell out there though as the rest of the D corps is really, really bad. 

Pittsburgh is kind of brutal in general and even more so with line changes on. If you can, just steer clear of them. I'll rank my top 5 line change teams below off the top of my head.

1. Montreal (3 good lines, 2.5 solid D pair and a top end G)

2. Boston (Depth galore at all positions)

3. Detroit (Top end F talent, 6 plus defenders, and a great Chk line)

4. Calgary (2 great lines and 6 plus defenders, shaky G)

5. Chicago (1 great line and top G, shaky depth)

Honorable Mentions: Vancouver (Speed & depth), Los Angeles (2 insane offensive lines and solid D, abysmal G), Quebec (3 solid lines),  Buffalo (1 insane F line, a top G, and then very average depth)

I'd try to stay away from these non expansion teams.

- Islanders (one good F line, tons of unspectacular D, slow depth F and the worst G)

- Pittsburgh (As discussed above)

- St. Louis (slow, heavy, terrible depth)

-Edmonton (slow, heavy, low endurance, bad passing)

That pretty much leaves Dallas, Hartford, NJ, NYR, Philly, Toronto, Washington & Winnipeg as your middle tier teams with various strengths and weaknesses. Generally these teams lack depth or top end skill/speed.

If I had to rank the expansion teams I'd go...TB, SJ, OTW, FLA, & Anh at the bottom.

Edited by angryjay93
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  • 2 years later...
On 6/8/2019 at 6:04 AM, angryjay93 said:

First off I'd like to thank you for taking the time out to read the various posts and to go even further by asking a question. Before I found the site I actually spent most of my time playing the computer with line changes and offsides on. I know auto line changes are a bit different than manual since the CPU likes to match the checking line against Sc1, especially when a team is leading so its pretty important to make sure you have some quality guys on that Chk line. 

I think Raph gives you a pretty solid break down on how to value your roster spots. I think the extra things I would throw in are skating and endurance would take a higher premium for me than usual. With line changes on, you cant really slam on the C button to get those turbo boosts, otherwise your team is gonna be gassed in short order, especially those low endurance guys. If you combine poor skating with poor endurance then you can be in serious trouble. Luckily Detroit avoids this problem for the most part, Pittsburgh will be a bit more tricky.

My Detroit lines:

SC 1: Fedorov-Yzerman-Probert

SC 2: Ysebaert-Ciccarelli-Ogrodnick

Chk: Drake-Kennedy-Kozlov

Coffey-Konstantinov

Lidstrom-Chiasson

Howe-Racine

I would try to avoid Ray Sheppard as he is slow and his endurance is below average. Also, I'd try to beef up my Chk line with my best defensive players which the 3 I've included are the best defensive forwards for Detroit and they have just enough skill to take advantage of a team that is pressing for a goal. Not too many differences from Raph, so I don't think you can go wrong with either set.

As for Pitt...

SC 1: Stevens-Lemieux-Mullen

SC 2: Jagr-Francis-McEachern

Chk: Tippett-Tocchet-Straka

U. Samuelsson-Stanton

Paek-Murphy

Ramsey-K. Samuelsson

Pittsburgh really tests my theories as they have several slow, heavy, and low endurance players. Line 1: Lemieux and Stevens both have very high endurance and should be a good combo together because they can keep up with each other. Mullen gives nice weight variety as he is easily the lightest player on this line, he has a scoring touch to boot. I think the D pair here is the most balanced Pittsburgh can offer and it doesn't make the line too heavy by inserting Murphy over Stanton. Plus, Stanton is just a poor mans Murphy so I dont think you lose much.

Line 2: Jagr and Francis should do well with each other as Francis is essentially the best offensive weapon left on the roster for Jagr to feed. McEachern is a role player with good endurance who can keep up with the pace of play and pot his easy chances. Murphy is an obvious choice as he is the best defender remaining, he should be able to further boost this line offensively where needed. Where Pittsburgh really struggles is with its 4th D man, they do not have a good option but Paek is probably the best of the bunch as he has decent endurance and is the fastest remaining player to choose from.

Chk: It's really hard to put together a traditional checking line here as the Pens simply do not have the personnel available. Tippett is a well below average player but hes the only player with decent skating as well as some endurance. Tocchet is a skilled player but is incredibly slow and heavy. He doesn't really fit in well with anyone so he kind of needs some lightweight guys to carry him around. Straka is the best checker in Pittsburgh but his endurance is extremely low so you really have to pick your spots with him to be effective. The defense is just the best of the rest as Ramsey has acceptable agility and endurance ratings. K. Smauelsson should be fine in his own zone but he's liability in transition or with the puck on his stick. You'll want Kjell out there though as the rest of the D corps is really, really bad. 

Pittsburgh is kind of brutal in general and even more so with line changes on. If you can, just steer clear of them. I'll rank my top 5 line change teams below off the top of my head.

1. Montreal (3 good lines, 2.5 solid D pair and a top end G)

2. Boston (Depth galore at all positions)

3. Detroit (Top end F talent, 6 plus defenders, and a great Chk line)

4. Calgary (2 great lines and 6 plus defenders, shaky G)

5. Chicago (1 great line and top G, shaky depth)

Honorable Mentions: Vancouver (Speed & depth), Los Angeles (2 insane offensive lines and solid D, abysmal G), Quebec (3 solid lines),  Buffalo (1 insane F line, a top G, and then very average depth)

I'd try to stay away from these non expansion teams.

- Islanders (one good F line, tons of unspectacular D, slow depth F and the worst G)

- Pittsburgh (As discussed above)

- St. Louis (slow, heavy, terrible depth)

-Edmonton (slow, heavy, low endurance, bad passing)

That pretty much leaves Dallas, Hartford, NJ, NYR, Philly, Toronto, Washington & Winnipeg as your middle tier teams with various strengths and weaknesses. Generally these teams lack depth or top end skill/speed.

If I had to rank the expansion teams I'd go...TB, SJ, OTW, FLA, & Anh at the bottom.

Hi angryjay93!

I'm playing with Detroit and automatic changes (in all hockey games actually...) and a WB fixed rom, so will these lines suit me? For PP1 and PP2 should I put the same players than SC1 and SC2?

Thanks!

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On 2/16/2022 at 10:38 AM, Deckard said:

Hi angryjay93!

I'm playing with Detroit and automatic changes (in all hockey games actually...) and a WB fixed rom, so will these lines suit me? For PP1 and PP2 should I put the same players than SC1 and SC2?

Thanks!

Hey Deckard, i appreciate you taking a look at things here and posting the above question. I will do my best to assist you.

A weight bug fixed rom can really change some things up for Detroit, especially for their blue line and checking line. Forwards like Yzerman, Ciccarelli, and Fedorov will still be your best players due to their skating and skills. Even at lower weights, they can avoid a lot of slower and heavier players. I would recommend having  two of those three being your first 2 centers with the other being your first line LW as before. 

The rest of the Detroit forwards are kind of tricky to place as they largely have similar skill sets but are a bit on the lighter side. Trying to maintain weight balance will be key so that one line isnt too big and slow while the other is too light and struggle on defense.

Defensively, Coffey really becomes a star as his speed and skill along with his size make him an absolute pain for the defense to stop. Chiasson is a solid choice for your 2nd pairing and then you'll be left to mix and match with lighter players with high endurance or somewhat heavier players with less endurance. Fortunately, Detroit has 8 defenseman I would feel comfortable with and you can use this depth on your special teams to help keep everyone fresh.

Line 1: Fedorov-Yzerman-Probert
Line 2: Ysebaert-Ciccarelli-Primeau
Line 3: Drake-Ogrodnick-Sillinger

Line 1: Coffey-Konstantinov
Line 2: Chiasson-Lidstrom
Line 3: McCrimmon-Konroyd

PP
Line 1: Fedorov-Yzerman-Drake
Line 2: Ysebaert-Ciccarelli-Ogrodnick

Line 1: Racine-Coffey
Line 2: Lidstrom-Howe

You'll still be using your best forwards on the PP and I inserted Drake for his speed and to help save Probert for the PK. On D, a lot of your lighter defenseman are very similar hence the insertion of Racine and Howe. We want to save our bigger and more defensive minded guys for the PK

PK
Line 1: Probert-Yzerman
Line 2: Fedorov-Primeau

Line 1: Chiasson-Konstantnov
Line 2: Konroyd-Coffey

Our depth forwards aren't great penalty killers as they are neither big or fast, this means we have to use Yzerman who has perfect endurance and Probert who does have the size and skating to make a difference as a checker. Fedorov has good D aware and is very agile, meaning he can at least pester players even if he can't body check them effectively. We can then use his playmaking ability to help draw attention and dish off to Primeau for short handed chances. Chiasson and Konstantinov are the best defensive players and they aren't on the PP which means they should have plenty of energy. Coffey should also be a part your PK as he has very high endurance that should allow him to play a role here despite being very involved in your other lines. If he is low on energy you can sub in McCrimmon who is very good in his own zone.

Feel free to make adjustments that you see fit, especially if you prefer specific players in your lineup. With that in mind, I would do everything I could to ice Yzerman, Coffey, Fedorov, and Ciccarelli as much as possible as they are your game breakers and most of the rest of the team is your support.

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9 hours ago, angryjay93 said:

Hey Deckard, i appreciate you taking a look at things here and posting the above question. I will do my best to assist you.

A weight bug fixed rom can really change some things up for Detroit, especially for their blue line and checking line. Forwards like Yzerman, Ciccarelli, and Fedorov will still be your best players due to their skating and skills. Even at lower weights, they can avoid a lot of slower and heavier players. I would recommend having  two of those three being your first 2 centers with the other being your first line LW as before. 

The rest of the Detroit forwards are kind of tricky to place as they largely have similar skill sets but are a bit on the lighter side. Trying to maintain weight balance will be key so that one line isnt too big and slow while the other is too light and struggle on defense.

Defensively, Coffey really becomes a star as his speed and skill along with his size make him an absolute pain for the defense to stop. Chiasson is a solid choice for your 2nd pairing and then you'll be left to mix and match with lighter players with high endurance or somewhat heavier players with less endurance. Fortunately, Detroit has 8 defenseman I would feel comfortable with and you can use this depth on your special teams to help keep everyone fresh.

Line 1: Fedorov-Yzerman-Probert
Line 2: Ysebaert-Ciccarelli-Primeau
Line 3: Drake-Ogrodnick-Sillinger

Line 1: Coffey-Konstantinov
Line 2: Chiasson-Lidstrom
Line 3: McCrimmon-Konroyd

PP
Line 1: Fedorov-Yzerman-Drake
Line 2: Ysebaert-Ciccarelli-Ogrodnick

Line 1: Racine-Coffey
Line 2: Lidstrom-Howe

You'll still be using your best forwards on the PP and I inserted Drake for his speed and to help save Probert for the PK. On D, a lot of your lighter defenseman are very similar hence the insertion of Racine and Howe. We want to save our bigger and more defensive minded guys for the PK

PK
Line 1: Probert-Yzerman
Line 2: Fedorov-Primeau

Line 1: Chiasson-Konstantnov
Line 2: Konroyd-Coffey

Our depth forwards aren't great penalty killers as they are neither big or fast, this means we have to use Yzerman who has perfect endurance and Probert who does have the size and skating to make a difference as a checker. Fedorov has good D aware and is very agile, meaning he can at least pester players even if he can't body check them effectively. We can then use his playmaking ability to help draw attention and dish off to Primeau for short handed chances. Chiasson and Konstantinov are the best defensive players and they aren't on the PP which means they should have plenty of energy. Coffey should also be a part your PK as he has very high endurance that should allow him to play a role here despite being very involved in your other lines. If he is low on energy you can sub in McCrimmon who is very good in his own zone.

Feel free to make adjustments that you see fit, especially if you prefer specific players in your lineup. With that in mind, I would do everything I could to ice Yzerman, Coffey, Fedorov, and Ciccarelli as much as possible as they are your game breakers and most of the rest of the team is your support.

I really really appreciate your explanation, I'm taking my first steps in NHL94 (and in hockey video games in general) so everything is new to me... Last questions (I swear it!), what do you think about the rom with "Wgt bug fix + bonus/penalty due to checking rating"? Does it play "better" or is a complete different experience compared with the one with only WB fix? Is this rom with "2 fixes" the base for the yearly mods? Is it played in your official leagues?

Thanks a lot!!!

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On 2/19/2022 at 3:51 AM, Deckard said:

I really really appreciate your explanation, I'm taking my first steps in NHL94 (and in hockey video games in general) so everything is new to me... Last questions (I swear it!), what do you think about the rom with "Wgt bug fix + bonus/penalty due to checking rating"? Does it play "better" or is a complete different experience compared with the one with only WB fix? Is this rom with "2 fixes" the base for the yearly mods? Is it played in your official leagues?

Thanks a lot!!!

I am to hear that you found the previous post helpful and I'm more than happy to answer whichever questions you may have in the future.

Many years ago there was a league ran by Smozoma called Blitz League that incorporated the weight bug fix with the bonus/penalty feature and it was a very unique league. I found it to be an incredible league because there were more pros and cons to weigh with each player in respect to their checking ability. When comparing that rom to a rom that is only weight bug fixed, there are some differences but fewer from the default rom. I personally would prefer the weight bug fix with the bonus/penalty checking if I were to deviate. I think having lighter players with high check ratings punching above their weight and heavy players with low checking being a bit of a defensive liability to be a more interesting and realistic take on hockey. 

Unfortunately, Blitz League ended several years ago. In addition, the vast majority of leagues we run now use the default rom with the weight bug enabled. Every now and again someone will create a rom which may get used for a tournament that has some sort of weight bug fix but those seem to be far and few between. Leagues can also tend to come in cycles, which means a weight bug fix rom may come back in vogue but it is tough to predict when that my take place.

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6 hours ago, angryjay93 said:

I am to hear that you found the previous post helpful and I'm more than happy to answer whichever questions you may have in the future.

Many years ago there was a league ran by Smozoma called Blitz League that incorporated the weight bug fix with the bonus/penalty feature and it was a very unique league. I found it to be an incredible league because there were more pros and cons to weigh with each player in respect to their checking ability. When comparing that rom to a rom that is only weight bug fixed, there are some differences but fewer from the default rom. I personally would prefer the weight bug fix with the bonus/penalty checking if I were to deviate. I think having lighter players with high check ratings punching above their weight and heavy players with low checking being a bit of a defensive liability to be a more interesting and realistic take on hockey. 

Unfortunately, Blitz League ended several years ago. In addition, the vast majority of leagues we run now use the default rom with the weight bug enabled. Every now and again someone will create a rom which may get used for a tournament that has some sort of weight bug fix but those seem to be far and few between. Leagues can also tend to come in cycles, which means a weight bug fix rom may come back in vogue but it is tough to predict when that my take place.

Thanks a lot for your answers, I think I'll stick to weight fix only rom, IMHO is the closest version to what Mark Lesser had in mind when the game was originally released, although there's another thing that EA fixed in NHL 94 Rewind, the edit lines ratings bug, is it meaningful? 

Thanks!

Edited by Deckard
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