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Help with 30 team rom


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With the aid of wboy and his Tile Molester reference screenshots I've been able to change the home and visitor banner colors in the startup menu.

I want to edit the playoff and intermission banners (among other things) but I'm not sure which offset is for which banner. Using the refrence screens I've loaded the pallet and the banners but there are only 16 colors for 30 banners(?) When I cycle through the pallet they are all the same.

Also how do you edit the text in the banners?

I've already edited the uni's in nose so I take it I changed the ice logo pallet too.

If I sound in any way like Bob Cat Goldthwait at the bottom of a 12 foot swimming pool your hearing me correctly.

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I want to edit the playoff and intermission banners (among other things) but I'm not sure which offset is for which banner. Using the refrence screens I've loaded the pallet and the banners but there are only 16 colors for 30 banners(?) When I cycle through the pallet they are all the same.

Yes, there is only 16 colors for the palette. The same palette also used in the rink to draw the stadium/crowd etc. The banners is one big image... with only one offset reference effectively.

Also how do you edit the text in the banners?
You open the "XX. NHL 94 Banner Graphics.png" file supplied with the tutorial in your favorite graphics editing program. Make the banners by copying and pasting the letters into the blank banner window at the top... then replace the colors with a fill tool... finally save as a BMP ready for importing via TM.
I've already edited the uni's in nose so I take it I changed the ice logo pallet too.

Yes. So the logo may look odd now meaning you'll have to recreate/reimport them. Not a fun task, especially when trying to make them look real good working within the 16 color limitation.

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Yes, there is only 16 colors for the palette. The same palette also used in the rink to draw the stadium/crowd etc. The banners is one big image... with only one offset reference effectively.

You open the "XX. NHL 94 Banner Graphics.png" file supplied with the tutorial in your favorite graphics editing program. Make the banners by copying and pasting the letters into the blank banner window at the top... then replace the colors with a fill tool... finally save as a BMP ready for importing via TM.

Yes. So the logo may look odd now meaning you'll have to recreate/reimport them. Not a fun task, especially when trying to make them look real good working within the 16 color limitation.

Thanks wboy.

Mabye someone could use what I did in the future to help accelerate the process of editing all the playoff banners with the 30 team rom. Here's what I did:

Loaded the offset for the banners and pallet in TM. Scaled the banners down to the smallest size, then took a print screen of them, opened it in PS and croped the banners to 1 image and made copys. Then cut and pasted the banners around to the right locations so I only had to manualy edit the text with the refrence screen cap for a few defunct teams, and colors. Then imported it back into TM.

Now that I'm done with the banners I'm going to get to work on the logos. So my next question is..Was it a huge blunder that I changed the logo pallet? I finished the rosters and uniforms first so I could concentrate on working in TM last to make things easier (or so I thought).

I also remember seeing you write that it's best to save the uni's in decimal with nose. Why?

And if I change the uni's back to the original colors in the 30 team rom would that change the logo pallets back to their original state?

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Mabye someone could use what I did in the future to help accelerate the process of editing all the playoff banners with the 30 team rom. Here's what I did:

Loaded the offset for the banners and pallet in TM. Scaled the banners down to the smallest size, then took a print screen of them, opened it in PS and croped the banners to 1 image and made copys. Then cut and pasted the banners around to the right locations so I only had to manualy edit the text with the refrence screen cap for a few defunct teams, and colors. Then imported it back into TM.

No need to print screen and crop as TM does support BMP exports on the active screen tiles/canvas.

If you are predominately rearranging the order of the banners, then the select/copy/paste support within TM can do most of what you require. Its also has color fill and color replace features making it a decent mini graphics editing app as well. The banner template was more for those who construct roms with non NHL teams and will need to fully recreate the banners.

That said... best people do what they are more comfortable with.. and the more options the better...

Now that I'm done with the banners I'm going to get to work on the logos. So my next question is..Was it a huge blunder that I changed the logo pallet? I finished the rosters and uniforms first so I could concentrate on working in TM last to make things easier (or so I thought).
Yes and no... but not maybe! Confused? Logos are a pain as they are small, detailed, but only able to use the 16 colors of the home strip. If you want to make your team as authentic looking as possible (compared to their real jerseys) they you may lose colors that could benefit being in your logo. For example, the gain I had from making the skate blade a lighter gray was that it could act as a white like color in a logo for a team that may not of had much white in their strip.

Getting back to the question, yes, you have disturbed the original logos, but all is not yet lost. Take the base 30 team rom. Export the each logo as a BMP using the home strip palettes... and then try reimporting them into your rom with your strip color palettes. Some may import good enough for you to use them again without change... though some may require a touch up...... Hope that ll makes (some) sense.

I also remember seeing you write that it's best to save the uni's in decimal with nose. Why?

Save the unis? I think you mean refer to the on-screen decimal offset (vs hex which is shown by default).... why... as TM only allows you to only import the an active palette from within your rom using the decimal offset. Save you converting it in Calc.

And if I change the uni's back to the original colors in the 30 team rom would that change the logo pallets back to their original state?

True, but try what I said above first... you may be willing to live the result if you think you still prefer the strips colors you made.

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No need to print screen and crop as TM does support BMP exports on the active screen tiles/canvas.

If you are predominately rearranging the order of the banners, then the select/copy/paste support within TM can do most of what you require. Its also has color fill and color replace features making it a decent mini graphics editing app as well. The banner template was more for those who construct roms with non NHL teams and will need to fully recreate the banners.

That said... best people do what they are more comfortable with.. and the more options the better...

Yes and no... but not maybe! Confused? Logos are a pain as they are small, detailed, but only able to use the 16 colors of the home strip. If you want to make your team as authentic looking as possible (compared to their real jerseys) they you may lose colors that could benefit being in your logo. For example, the gain I had from making the skate blade a lighter gray was that it could act as a white like color in a logo for a team that may not of had much white in their strip.

Getting back to the question, yes, you have disturbed the original logos, but all is not yet lost. Take the base 30 team rom. Export the each logo as a BMP using the home strip palettes... and then try reimporting them into your rom with your strip color palettes. Some may import good enough for you to use them again without change... though some may require a touch up...... Hope that ll makes (some) sense.

Save the unis? I think you mean refer to the on-screen decimal offset (vs hex which is shown by default).... why... as TM only allows you to only import the an active palette from within your rom using the decimal offset. Save you converting it in Calc.

True, but try what I said above first... you may be willing to live the result if you think you still prefer the strips colors you made.

Thanks again.

To aviod compromising the quality of the ice logos I've reset the pallets by restoring the uni's to their original colors. I copied the rom with the strips I want to use, so replacing them with the color sniper once I'm done with the ice logos won't be too time consuming.

The menu logos are what I plan to tackle first. Got some help from other members for getting the logos to look sharp at small sizes, but their is still somethings I'm uncertain about.

I've saved my logo images at 48x48 px as JPEG.. Before I save them as PNG at 16 colors; should I use the home strip pallet as the 16 colors?

I'm also not sure which colors to set for the image once it's imported into TM. Knowing that colors 2-7 are reserved for the banners. Which colors do I change for the particualr image(s) pallet? For instance: ASE and ASW logos use two shades of orange, what color block do I place them in the pallet in TM? Or do I play with aranging the colors until I find a match that looks best?

And yes. Your right about copy/paste features being more efficent in TM, and had I not found "The Tip of the Millenium", all might have been lost.

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The menu logos are what I plan to tackle first. Got some help from other members for getting the logos to look sharp at small sizes, but their is still somethings I'm uncertain about. I've saved my logo images at 48x48 px as JPEG.. Before I save them as PNG at 16 colors; should I use the home strip pallet as the 16 colors?

Firstly don't save as JPG... while suitable for reducing large camera photos etc, it adds artifacts/degrades the image (and again if you reopen and save) in the process... even with high quality properties set. To retain the original quality of the logo save as BMP or PNG (a lossless format that works extremely well for small and even large images that have limited colors eg. screenshots etc. in which such cases will also produce a smaller file size than JPG). IIRC, PNG is always at 24bit color so their is no need to reduce the colors. The menu logo has no association with the home strip palette... thats only for the rink logo. The colors can be completely different technically speaking.

I'm also not sure which colors to set for the image once it's imported into TM. Knowing that colors 2-7 are reserved for the banners. Which colors do I change for the particular image(s) pallet? For instance: ASE and ASW logos use two shades of orange, what color block do I place them in the pallet in TM? Or do I play with aranging the colors until I find a match that looks best?

If you refer to "15. Team Selection Logos.png", you'll see that the menu logo can only use the last 9 colors of the palette... and maybe the 1st making it 10 though that may be a transparency color... can't remember off the top of my head.

Best method is to work out your optimized colors via the sniper in nose. make note of them including their BGR value (for the rom) and RGB values (for your graphics app). Dither your logo down to those colors (in your graphics app of choice). Edit the rom to enter your BGR palettes at the correct offset (I do this with a hex editor).... save... load in TM... load the palette... go to the offset for the logo... then import the saved BMP/PNG you made with your graphics app.

Hope that makes sense.

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Firstly don't save as JPG... while suitable for reducing large camera photos etc, it adds artifacts/degrades the image (and again if you reopen and save) in the process... even with high quality properties set. To retain the original quality of the logo save as BMP or PNG (a lossless format that works extremely well for small and even large images that have limited colors eg. screenshots etc. in which such cases will also produce a smaller file size than JPG). IIRC, PNG is always at 24bit color so their is no need to reduce the colors. The menu logo has no association with the home strip palette... thats only for the rink logo. The colors can be completely different technically speaking.

If you refer to "15. Team Selection Logos.png", you'll see that the menu logo can only use the last 9 colors of the palette... and maybe the 1st making it 10 though that may be a transparency color... can't remember off the top of my head.

Best method is to work out your optimized colors via the sniper in nose. make note of them including their BGR value (for the rom) and RGB values (for your graphics app). Dither your logo down to those colors (in your graphics app of choice). Edit the rom to enter your BGR palettes at the correct offset (I do this with a hex editor).... save... load in TM... load the palette... go to the offset for the logo... then import the saved BMP/PNG you made with your graphics app.

Hope that makes sense.

Much oblige wboy,

Keeping with the trend of this thread I've reached another impass. Since 1-900-babes-who-tile-molest isin't a reasonable alternative for help, (esp at 4.99 a minute) I've come back for more schooling.

I know the ice logos are yay high, by yay wide, and the offsets for the logos thanks to your refrence screens, however when I load the pallet for the ice logos I'm unable to cycle through them. It won't budge. Perhaps I have to enter the offset for each team pallet manualy?

Also when attempting to change the team overal ratings with Evan's tutorial they didn't change anything. I take it they are in a different location than the '94 rom? Could you provide me with the offset for the team ratings when you have time?

Again, thank you very much.

edit: I should also mention I finsihsed the menu logos (they look rather nifty too).

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I know the ice logos are yay high, by yay wide, and the offsets for the logos thanks to your refrence screens, however when I load the pallet for the ice logos I'm unable to cycle through them. It won't budge. Perhaps I have to enter the offset for each team pallet manualy?

Sure you are loading a palette of size 480 and not 16... thus not allowing you to cycle the palettes?

Also when attempting to change the team overal ratings with Evan's tutorial they didn't change anything. I take it they are in a different location than the '94 rom? Could you provide me with the offset for the team ratings when you have time?

they appear right before roster data at 0x001DCA24. Alternatively if you are using the raw (unedited) template hex search for 0102030405060708 and you should find it...

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Sure you are loading a palette of size 480 and not 16... thus not allowing you to cycle the palettes?

That did the trick.

Getting the ice logos to look accurate can be a long, tedious process. It's hard to get them in order without being very meticulous.

With 4 colors in the ice logo pallet reserved, for the blade, stick, gloves, and shadow, why didn't Lesser and crew just share the menu and ice logos (as they were omitted altogether in '93 due to licensing issues)?

With the logos, and team ratings finished, the crease, and faceoff circles are next . I'm not sure if you have the rink and pallet offsets posted on the forum because I couldn't find them. Please post them when you have a chance.

Also; Have you tried changing the image behind the menu? I'd like to change that if possible.

Thanks.

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Getting the ice logos to look accurate can be a long, tedious process. It's hard to get them in order without being very meticulous.

long, tedious and very meticulous... hmmmm.... didn't notice that at all! ;)

With 4 colors in the ice logo pallet reserved, for the blade, stick, gloves, and shadow, why didn't Lesser and crew just share the menu and ice logos (as they were omitted altogether in '93 due to licensing issues)?
Its because the mix on the of colors offered within the palette wouldn't suffice for all team logos.... and 12 or so colors within the home strip of a team would probably match their logo colors a lot better when dithered. You can change it if want.... and make it use the loaded palette of your choice (rink pal or banner/stands pal). Not too hard if interested. Personally though I wouldn't do unless you wanted one logo for all teams etc. Shared NHL logo.
With the logos, and team ratings finished, the crease, and faceoff circles are next . I'm not sure if you have the rink and pallet offsets posted on the forum because I couldn't find them. Please post them when you have a chance.

Rink offsets are the same as the original rom. Swos did a tut on it some time ago now. May try post some goodies later if I can find them that may help.

Also; Have you tried changing the image behind the menu? I'd like to change that if possible.

No go... there is too many loaded graphic tiles chewing up the available VDP memory (banners, selected team logos, menu, player cards and text tiles etc) which doesn't allow you to store that image uncompressed (no shared tiles) as I did with the other images. Would of done it other wise.

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long, tedious and very meticulous... hmmmm.... didn't notice that at all! :)

Its because the mix on the of colors offered within the palette wouldn't suffice for all team logos.... and 12 or so colors within the home strip of a team would probably match their logo colors a lot better when dithered. You can change it if want.... and make it use the loaded palette of your choice (rink pal or banner/stands pal). Not too hard if interested. Personally though I wouldn't do unless you wanted one logo for all teams etc. Shared NHL logo.

Rink offsets are the same as the original rom. Swos did a tut on it some time ago now. May try post some goodies later if I can find them that may help.

No go... there is too many loaded graphic tiles chewing up the available VDP memory (banners, selected team logos, menu, player cards and text tiles etc) which doesn't allow you to store that image uncompressed (no shared tiles) as I did with the other images. Would of done it other wise.

Egads, the crease uses all mirrored tiles!

Tried pasting the crease tiles from original bin into mine but there are some strange differences..Like the rink tiles for the 30 team rom has the letter F randomly throught..But they don't seem to effect anything(?)

Wanted to avoid using TLP at all costs..but I must if I'm to earn my hax0r's badge.

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Wanted to avoid using TLP at all costs..but I must if I'm to earn my hax0r's badge.

Depending on what you are trying to do exactly, it could start getting ugly from here. If all you want to do is restore the old rink, it's probably best you leave it to last and I'll do it for you... trust me, there are too many dependencies you don't know about, and I'm not going to be able to post it all as its just too much (time consuming wise) to describe/educate someone about over the forums.

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Depending on what you are trying to do exactly, it could start getting ugly from here. If all you want to do is restore the old rink, it's probably best you leave it to last and I'll do it for you... trust me, there are too many dependencies you don't know about, and I'm not going to be able to post it all as its just too much (time consuming wise) to describe/educate someone about over the forums.

The tiles are more powerfull than I had imagined. I can get a few things in order (probably the hard way) but haven't been able to restore the crescent. So I'm going to have to take you up on that offer.

Also finished the player card photos for all of the starters for each team; Your player card tutorial helped hella lot..But I'm not sure where the master generic cards are located..The last ones perhaps? Haven't checked yet.

Thanks.

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Also finished the player card photos for all of the starters for each team; Your player card tutorial helped hella lot..But I'm not sure where the master generic cards are located..The last ones perhaps? Haven't checked yet.

pretty sure I retained the template player cards in their original offsets as per the notes in the tutorial. Thing is, they'll never be reference as such as each possible player has his own allocated card... though that can be changed easily enough.

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pretty sure I retained the template player cards in their original offsets as per the notes in the tutorial. Thing is, they'll never be reference as such as each possible player has his own allocated card... though that can be changed easily enough.

The idea of using an individual player card for everyone was entertained..But 400 + photos is bananas..Decided to use generic's for the 2-3 liners.

All of the player cards and splash screens are completed except for the 2nd one..So last question is..Is there anyway to import an image over top the NHL logo without the black borders? I played around with the pallets but i can't get the image to look right. And can I use two pallets for the image? Tried doing this but couldn't get the desired effect.

Gracias.

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i am intrigued. when you do complete this, i would like to see it. sounds great.

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So last question is..Is there anyway to import an image over top the NHL logo without the black borders? I played around with the pallets but i can't get the image to look right. And can I use two pallets for the image? Tried doing this but couldn't get the desired effect.

As per the reference "02. 2nd Splash Screen - NHL Stanley Cup.png" simply change palette 1,3 & 4 to all be the same. Yes this limits you to 16 colors but dithering your graphic in a graphics app with the best RGB colors (as per the Genesis's restrictions - as reflected in NOSE) you can still get a decent looking result.

Every tile (8x8 pixels) can only ever refer to one palette of 16. Using two palettes is technically possible even with these palette per tile limit, but trust me you don't want to go there!

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