NHL 25 - Retro 94 Edition by Jkline3 and von Ozbourne

[chaos]

@von Ozbourne - The ROM has everyone listed as a defensemen. You need to update the number of Fs in NOSE after you edit the rosters - 

 

EDIT: Nvm, looks like it was intended this way.

[von Ozbourne]

2 hours ago, chaos said:

@von Ozbourne - The ROM has everyone listed as a defensemen. You need to update the number of Fs in NOSE after you edit the rosters - 

EDIT: Nvm, looks like it was intended this way.

Yes, I realized that I did a poor job of relaying a lot of the edits in the original post. Probably because I was only thinking about the changes from the 2024 ROM, but forgot that noting all the changes from the 1994 ROM is important too. Probably also doesn't help that I forget where I learned about ignoring that F/D split since my note taking is awful and I usually only remember the main information, but not it's source. Should work on that so I can give proper credits.

But yeah, in this case, any skater can play skating position, but only if they are listed as D-men. Changing someone to an F is interesting though as it puts them on the roster in the player cards screen or the stats sheet, but the only way to put them on a line is to do so by editing the roster in NOSE. It is an interesting way to allow the coaches to show up in the photos.

[grimmace92]

10 hours ago, von Ozbourne said:

Yes, I realized that I did a poor job of relaying a lot of the edits in the original post. Probably because I was only thinking about the changes from the 2024 ROM, but forgot that noting all the changes from the 1994 ROM is important too. Probably also doesn't help that I forget where I learned about ignoring that F/D split since my note taking is awful and I usually only remember the main information, but not it's source. Should work on that so I can give proper credits.

But yeah, in this case, any skater can play skating position, but only if they are listed as D-men. Changing someone to an F is interesting though as it puts them on the roster in the player cards screen or the stats sheet, but the only way to put them on a line is to do so by editing the roster in NOSE. It is an interesting way to allow the coaches to show up in the photos.

Any thoughts on the post before this with the pass shot going right through the net and the rom error on expiring too many penalties?

[von Ozbourne]

3 hours ago, grimmace92 said:

Any thoughts on the post before this with the pass shot going right through the net and the rom error on expiring too many penalties?

Ah shoot, yes. That was using the change in the collision to make the puck hug the boards a bit closer and make scoring a bit harder. Probably should have coupled that with a smaller net graphic, but I never liked the look of that. Can't say that I use the pass shot a lot and I don't usually notice any through the mesh plays like that. Suppose I can put it back to the original tolerance and post an update.

As for the penalty glitch, I'm not sure what's going on with that one. Will have to look into that one a bit more. I do tend to get penalized a lot, not sure how that one never came up. Don't suppose you have that error address again eh?

[von Ozbourne]

Now I am stumped. I did a quick test, turned Icing and Off-sides into minor infractions, got about eight guys crammed into the boxes for both teams, and they all were set free with no problem. So... making shrug gesture.

I will however be putting that collision update in the main post to address the blowing through the net thing. And might as well list the other hacks included to clear up some other questions.

NHL 2025 - Retro 94 Edition v2.1.bin

[grimmace92]

On 12/2/2024 at 3:08 PM, von Ozbourne said:

Now I am stumped. I did a quick test, turned Icing and Off-sides into minor infractions, got about eight guys crammed into the boxes for both teams, and they all were set free with no problem. So... making shrug gesture.

I will however be putting that collision update in the main post to address the blowing through the net thing. And might as well list the other hacks included to clear up some other questions.

NHL 2025 - Retro 94 Edition v2.1.bin 2 MB · 1 download

Thank you!  The only error message I have is the one in the pic

** Also there is a bug that doesn't save the lines properly.  When i try to load the saved line it puts different players in the lineup

Edited December 4, 2024 by grimmace92

[von Ozbourne]

On 12/2/2024 at 2:15 PM, grimmace92 said:

Thank you!  The only error message I have is the one in the pic

** Also there is a bug that doesn't save the lines properly.  When i try to load the saved line it puts different players in the lineup

Ah that pic link is broken.

The lines thing is a bit of a weird one. I do wonder if it has something to do with a player card fix. I know when the Winnipeg Crash bug was being addressed, a couple of the fixes had unintended consequences. One in particular seemed to cause the game to forget a fair chunk of data such as if you were playing Playoff mode, after completing a game, trying to Continue Playoffs, would result in the Playoffs being reset to game one of a best of seven of the first playoff bracket option in the list. I can't say for certain, but I'm wondering if this is an age old issue of fix one thing, and find out later that it broke something else.

[Drezz]

Probably a memory issue. The carts were optimized to maximize memory to its fullest. Now that we've tinkered and expanded we're encountering issues with random crashes that are related to things that should be kept in memory like stats and data from lists. It's annoying because it's seemingly random. I think it may be one of those things where if you ADD something, you may need to remove/overwrite something of equal weight. Just a theory.

[AdamCatalyst]

I was under the impression that saving and recalling the editing lines was never adapted in the 32-team ROM, just like the User Records. Am I mistaken?

Edited December 5, 2024 by AdamCatalyst
Re-worded for clarity

[von Ozbourne]

On 12/5/2024 at 7:04 AM, AdamCatalyst said:

I was under the impression that saving and recalling the editing lines was never adapted in the 32-team ROM, just like the User Records. Am I mistaken?

Sadly it would appear that you are. I double checked on one of Slapshot and Skip's OG 32-team conversions and the load saved line function seems to work as it should. However I tried saving a line on a pair of 32-Team ROM that I did nothing to except applying two different Winnipeg Freeze Bug fixes, and in both cases I tried to save a line edit but then the Load option just doesn't come up.

So at this point my hypothesis is that the thing that the Freeze Bug fix does to memory in regard to how it handles player stats and records, also affects how player line edits are remembered.

I have to say, if that's actually the case, I'm going to take stability over convenience.

Interestingly, I was able to revert the ROM back to an "unfixed" version, but actually found out that there is a way to not have the game display the glitched data, simply by leaving the lines blank. Initially I left it so all the lines were blank and the player photos came up on the menu screen with no names. And then I activated only the first line, so the player names came up, but no additional info. This seemed to work fine actually, and when I saved a line, the Load option was available again and it worked. Sort of.
The caveat is that this edit only seems to work out okay if you are playing with line changes off, since only the First line is recalled as you saved it. The Second and Third lines did some weird bits where, in my test case, I swapped Edmonton's First and Second lines, but when I reverted to default and then loaded the saved lines again, Draisaitl was Ironmanning it on all three lines.

So, I guess this might be a patch idea? If loading saved lines is really important and you only ever play with no line changes. Possible this might need further examination to see what's going on here.

[AdamCatalyst]

I’m struggling to find understand that second half of this, but perhaps that’s not important. I’d like to try and help fix this, but will need some time. 

[von Ozbourne]

Trust your instinct. The gist is that thing was broken. I tried the thing that fixed that thing, but it broke a different thing. So I tried a another thing that fixed that different thing, but broke another thing. Since apparently we can't have nice things and something needs to be broken, I'm just backing away slowly with my hands clearly visible so as not to be responsible for any fatal explosions.

[grimmace92]

Some random stuff since we're using the Rom for a league and its getting a lot of use...

Line saving doesn't work

5 minute major penalties end if a goal is scored on the PP.

When loading save state onto the website every penalty is listed as 2:00 when viewing a box score

Is it possible to be able to add a "league penalties" option to the main menu.  We play 5 minute periods so a major has the potenial to be an entire period if a goal isnt scored.  I think guys want penalties to be possibly 1 minute and majors 2:30 or something like that.

 

 

 

[von Ozbourne]

Off the top of my head I will say that some of this can be addressed easily enough, I'll DM you back on Discord with some details.

Some of it may take some digging. I have concluded that the line saving is related to the freeze bug fix, but I've realized that there might be some other residual issues from the other mods I've applied to the ROM because even after reversing the fix, the loading function only works properly for the 1st/NLC line. I did find one option that seems to stop the freezing issue, and seems to allow for that top line saving, but I haven't tested it fully and the drawback is that Washington's player roll call looks like this.

The 5-minute major is an interesting point as it is just based on the original game's 2-minute "injury" Roughing penalty, so it is beholden to the rules of a minor, but now I'm wondering if there might not be a way to take whatever rule in the code that governs how the [unused] 5-minute fighting major operates, and apply it to a 5-minute "misconduct" type penalty, with a minor/double minor being served by a second player for the actual penalty kill. [what used to be the instigator] @AdamCatalyst? @smozoma? anyone?

I will say that in my case, I normally play 10min periods so the major isn't as punitive.

I'm curious if the savestate thing is just a matter of how the code interacts with the web thing. Since the major was changed from what used to be just another minor, I'm wondering if there is just something hard coded into how that is interpreted, but without knowing more I can't point a finger at any one thing. Although if the penalties are reduced to 1-minute, I'd be curious if they still show up as the same when uploaded.

[grimmace92]

The penalties are hard coded to 2:00 on the website.  There's no way for the site to know the actual minutes so nothing to fix there.

[von Ozbourne]

Good to know. One less thing on my plate at least.

Unfortunately I have hit a wall with the saving issue in this particular ROM and have to assume that it got baked in somewhere within the two years of iterating. And then personal bias and a small base of feedback means that these become foundational things that don't get noticed until you have a big tower on top that is leaning ever so slightly to the right.

Funny thing is that part of my brain is wondering why I would blow it all up just to figure out how to fix a feature that I never use! Are you going to take time away from these other things you're doing to deal with this? But then the other part is pointing out how much I enjoy fixing things and learning in general is fun and this just might be the incentive needed to revisit a couple of other things that I was debating changing and/or cleaning up anyway, so why not?

Just means that it might be a while for all that. But on the bright side, the next update might be compatible with this new widescreen mod? So that could be exciting.

 

[Jlsegafan2001]

This is rather interesting. Now, if only there was something just like this, but for the 1993-94 season that NHL 94 was originally based on...

[Ronnie]

Just curious is there any way to put a chime or bell in the game for a 1 minute warning before the period ends?  I suck at watching the clock LOL!

[von Ozbourne]

On 12/11/2024 at 2:34 PM, Jlsegafan2001 said:

This is rather interesting. Now, if only there was something just like this, but for the 1993-94 season that NHL 94 was originally based on...

Curious about this. I understand the graphical changes, but is the gameplay different enough that it would be a different enough experience compared to the original game?

The other question would be what to do with the additional teams in that case. Other than maybe adding All-Star teams and a '94 Canada Cup that never happened maybe...

[von Ozbourne]

On 12/26/2024 at 12:43 PM, Ronnie said:

Just curious is there any way to put a chime or bell in the game for a 1 minute warning before the period ends?  I suck at watching the clock LOL!

Sadly I so frequently play [or play test] with the sound off that I had to reassure myself that I wasn't wrong in thinking that there was a chime that signalled a penalty expiring. While it might be interesting to commandeer that signal to also trigger a chime when the game clock reached 1:00 in a period, but that's definitely beyond my scope.

I guess I could recommend that if you wanted a chime at the one minute mark, just get a penalty at the three minute mark and you should be good right?

[Jlsegafan2001]

19 minutes ago, von Ozbourne said:

Curious about this. I understand the graphical changes, but is the gameplay different enough that it would be a different enough experience compared to the original game?

The other question would be what to do with the additional teams in that case. Other than maybe adding All-Star teams and a '94 Canada Cup that never happened maybe...

Maybe many, if not all of, the 1994 Olympic hockey teams or some of the teams from the 1993 IIHF World Championship?

[Jlsegafan2001]

On 12/27/2024 at 4:02 PM, von Ozbourne said:

Sadly I so frequently play [or play test] with the sound off that I had to reassure myself that I wasn't wrong in thinking that there was a chime that signalled a penalty expiring. While it might be interesting to commandeer that signal to also trigger a chime when the game clock reached 1:00 in a period, but that's definitely beyond my scope.

I guess I could recommend that if you wanted a chime at the one minute mark, just get a penalty at the three minute mark and you should be good right?

Cool.