Players go missing on edges of screen NHL 98 - (Genesis Plus GX Wide)

[Bluerose]

So I recently discovered the magic of RetroArch, in particular the Core RetroArch with Genesis Plus GX Wide which gives us the ability to use up all the wasted real estate on both sides of the screen. For NHL games on Genesis, this is a nice feature considering that the game uses a camera to pan over an area that is larger than the field of view. We can now play with the entire horizontal area of the rink exposed at all times, instead of the panning view we are accustomed to with the camera that follows the player positions. 

There is a setting in Quick Menu > Core Options > Video > Extra Columns to draw in H40 for widescreen which allows us to determine how much extra space we are going to use on the sides of the screen. I have found that on my 16:9 TV a value of 12 works well, as it essentially keeps the entire horizontal area of the rink in view at all times without zooming too far out. 

The Problem
Now the one bug that I have found with this is that sometimes the players (on whichever team) will pop in and out of view. That is to say, they will become completely invisible. This only happens in the areas of the rink that are on the edges, where the extra real estate is. One guess I have about this is that the game may not always draw models when they are out of view, so what would normally be hidden (player's being despawned). This is something that game devs have implemented for a long time to save on polygons eating up GPU power, but I am not sure this is the case here, because I don't even think this game uses polygons (I think it uses sprites?). In any case, its something related to player visibility and the edges of the camera that follows the players/puck. 

So I am not sure how to address this, but its kind of lame. I mean, I LOVE that I now have all this extra real estate, but having the players disappear is not a very desirable outcome. Has anyone else noticed this before? I'd love to hear from anyone playing on the RetroArch with Genesis Plus GX Wide core and what their experiences have been like. I night test some other NHL titles, but right now I only have 94 to test it on. 

Thanks!

[Sean]

Most ROMs built for use with widescreen cores have been modded to work with them, and even then they still have issues on occasion.  
 

The players disappear because while the graphics piece of the emulator knows to draw extra columns, the actual code in the game doesn’t know to keep rendering players outside that space. 
 

For a fix, I don’t think anyone here has taken this on yet. I think it could be done by limiting the window the camera travels left/right in so the space players are on is always the middle set of pixels, but then you have the issue of all the other screens that need working (at least in NHL 94).

[von Ozbourne]

I'm not too familiar with RetroArch but this sounded similar to an issue with a widescreen patch that was posted last year for the base ROM. So I'm curious if you are using a patched version of the ROM or if you are using the original ROM and the wide-screenification [sure, that's a word] is being handled completely by the emulator.

The issue with the original patch was that, while it changed the viewing area to utilize the entire screen, the players would still despawn and present an arrow indicator once they left the original active area. However, the modder released an updated patch soon after that resolved that issue.

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/7502/

[He's got patches for 94-97 as well if that is of interest, but the don't work with the expanded ROMs]

I will say that this mainly just allows the game to use the full 4:3 screen space though, so I don't know how this will interact with an emulator that will apply a second hacking device that changes the screen to 16:9. But, I've noted that even when the puck carrier is hugging one wall, you can still see a bit of players that are up against the opposite wall, so it's possible that this might address the issue with RetroArch's display option since players are still going to be restricted to the ice surface area anyway.

 

Edit:
Actually if you want to just test on a patched version of NHL'98, this link should direct you to a page where you can download a widescreen patched version that will also have a bunch of other modifications to it, mostly just visual, but was turned into an IIHF'99 game. Version 1.2 is using the updated wide mode patch. Would actually be curious to see how it works with RetroArch's 16:9 mode.

 

Edited November 17 by von Ozbourne

[AdamCatalyst]

On 11/16/2024 at 3:57 PM, Sean said:

For a fix, I don’t think anyone here has taken this on yet. I think it could be done by limiting the window the camera travels left/right in so the space players are on is always the middle set of pixels, but then you have the issue of all the other screens that need working (at least in NHL 94).

I think I have this fixed in '94. If you can, try out my ROM, use the included wide screen patch and let me know. 

[Sean]

3 hours ago, AdamCatalyst said:

I think I have this fixed in '94. If you can, try out my ROM, use the included wide screen patch and let me know. 

The patch works phenomenally in traditional Genesis Cores - it's amazing work and makes me so happy you weren't able to retire from modding just yet so we could get it. Sadly this specific issue BR is asking about is slightly different though.

For GenesisPlusGX Wide the original widescreen patch doesn't handle some of the extra issues that arise with the extra columns that need to be drawn. I can't explain it too too well, but in the thread I'm linking @von Ozbourne gave a good quick explanation.

I did some preliminary research on it a while back, but honestly, all I found was that I don't have the skill set or time to figure this out.

 

[AdamCatalyst]

Hmmm, it seems like at least some overlap with the issues I saw when doing my patch, but I should really download the core and see for myself. I will post all my notes as soon as I find time!

[Sean]

On 11/21/2024 at 10:28 PM, AdamCatalyst said:

Hmmm, it seems like at least some overlap with the issues I saw when doing my patch, but I should really download the core and see for myself. I will post all my notes as soon as I find time!

Perfect - thanks, I’ll have to check it out!

[Bluerose]

Thanks for everyone who chimed in. Adam's patch is indeed marvelous, however I am hoping to capitalize on the entire screen. As Sean said, the GenesisPlusGX Wide doesn't seem too compatible with Adam's patch. I often see double screens and other weird effects. The GenesisPlusGX Wide core does a pretty good job at stretching out the entire screen but several problems remain:

- the wide screen will often become disabled when going into another menu.
- the players become invisible on the sides (as previously mentioned). 

Would love to see what could be done about these, but alas I have no expertise.

On another note. My friend and I spent the evening on Cheat Engine trying to figure out how to disable two-line passing in '98. I will let the community know if we come up with anything. My friend is a wizard, so I am fairly confident he could make this happen. 

[Bluerose]

On 11/17/2024 at 1:15 AM, von Ozbourne said:

I'm curious if you are using a patched version of the ROM or if you are using the original ROM and the wide-screenification [sure, that's a word] is being handled completely by the emulator.

Sorry forgot to reply to you. I have tried both, but currently using the original '98 ROM with Widescreen being handled by the GenesisPlusGX Wide core in RetroArch. I have tried some of those wonderful widescreen patches, but alas they are still 4:3 aspect ratio. You should check out the 16:9 gameplay that GenesisPlusGX Wide offers. It's really amazing to have the full horizontal ice end to end on a widescreen TV, but alas, those disappearing players!

[Bluerose]

I've tested various values for the 'Extra Columns to draw in H40 widescreen' and feel that a setting of 12-14 looks really nice. I think if we could just disable the camera horizontal camera movement the ice real estate and zoom level would be perfect. Presently we loose ice real estate when the camera follows a player on the edges of the rink as the screen is filled with fans:



By keeping the camera axis limited to vertical follow only, we could lock in a nicely zoomed view like this that includes the entire rink side to side:



I don't believe this would fix the disappearing player issue, but it's a step in the right direction. It would certainly be interesting to see what the game would 'feel' like without horizontal camera following. 

Edited November 27 by Bluerose

[AdamCatalyst]

Cool, I'd love to see a fixed camera view in play!

[Bluerose]

4 hours ago, AdamCatalyst said:

Cool, I'd love to see a fixed camera view in play!

Do you know of any existing camera hacks for NHL roms? There was mention of one on the forums in this post, but I haven't been able to find any other talk about this. 

[AdamCatalyst]

Sorry, no, not seen or tried any.