Uncle Seth
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Posts posted by Uncle Seth
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My two cents on Genesis -- I think switching to the player receiving the pass only helps in that you can position him at a better angle. If you keep a player with his skates to the back of the puck, that will still result in a bad pass, but if you are able to angle him a little bit, your success rate goes up. You learn this a lot playing 2on2 as you are always in control of the player receiving, and learning how to angle yourself to best receive the puck is key.
I think Raph nailed it here with what I try to explain in terms of "getting control" before the pass hits your stick.
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Good thread topic.........
Here are my beliefs on this. They may sound crazy to some or make sense but here goes....
When I told TK it has a lot to do with pressing B before you accept the pass, what I meant (but maybe didn't make clear to him at the time) is that you want to get control (by pressing B obviously) of the player who the pass is going to before the pass reaches them. Because, the player about to receive the pass seems to have a much higher chance of successfully receiving it when you yourself have control of him than if he is controlled by the computer. I remember a long time ago I think it was Plabber that let me in on this. However, passing rating (of the passer) has to a lot successful completion of the pass NOT simply due to do the accuracy of the pass/passer..........but that pass rating also means how FAST the pass actually travels. Better the pass rating (of the passer), the FASTER the pass travels.....and better the chance of accepting it successfully.
And here's another thing I've noticed, if you try to make LONG a pass with a guy who has a poor pass rating (and by poor I mean 3 or less) the pass not only travels slower, but is much more likely to become airborne where it just floats the entire way. Make a long bombs away pass with Curt Giles, it happens a lot that he'll just "lob" the puck in the air, which seems to make it more difficult to accept (whether you press B before receiving it or not). Make a long bombs away pass with Paul Coffey, it will seem much faster and almost always be flat on the ice (not airborne). So, to summarize my rant, the guys with better pass ratings pass the puck faster AND are much less likely to "lob" it in the air. Both of which seem to make success rate of receiving it higher. On top of that, my earlier statement about "getting control of the passer (pressing B again after you pass it) leading to increased success rate.
And to mind-f*ck you even further, it seems you don't have to perform that said manuever nearly as often WHEN the pass is MADE by a player with a high pass rating. So, if you're making a pass with a lowly rated passer (3 or less) there's a greater chance of the pass not connecting (if you don't get control/press B before receiving it)...as it misses completely or bounces off an intended receiver's skate.
And then (YES THERE'S STILL MORE TO BOGGLE THE BRAIN) there's what Brutus said about STICKHANDLING possibly playing a role. This could very well be the case but it's hard to say for sure since the vast majority of players who have high pass ratings ALSO have high stickhandling ratings.... it's rare to have one without the other (Klima is an exeption I can think of off the bat). Personally, guys with poor passing as I define it (3 or below) really make passing a frustrating endeavor. Yes, Klima is an incredible skater and shooter, but try using him in a passing role and you will see how frustrating it can be using him to throwing medium to longer range passes.
From my own preferences the cutoff point for passing (and possibly stickhandling as it may relate to passing) seems to be 4. The rating of 4 (for passing) seems to be good enough to get the job done most of the time regardless of pass distance.
I know, I said earlier I was going to summarize this but you know me, I'm all over the place......so here's the advice part......
If you're using a crappy passer, don't try to make long passes, they'll be: lofty (sometimes) slower (always), easier to pick off, more likely to miss the target or hit the intended target in the skates. But if you have want that bugger with a crappy pass rating in your lineup, you better start working on pressing B after the puck has been sent (to get control of the receiver before the pass reaches him), to decrease the chance it hits him in the skates. Over time, guys who have value in other areas (be it lightweight, hard shot etc) but have a 3 or worse passing seem to reeeeally frustrate me to the point where I'm starting to feel 4 or higher is the minimum pass rating required if one wants to experience less frustration AND you're the type to pass frequently.
Keep in mind, all of these factors are MAGNIFIED the longer the pass is. With short passes you may not notice any of these problems. Sorry if this is painfully confusing to read.
Lastly, keep in mind, I'm writing this for the mass audience, many of you may be uttering to yourself "yeah I knew that Seth, it's basic knowledge" while others may be thinking "this is complete BS", "you're nuts", or even possibly......"wow, Seth you're a 94 genius" !
94 is complex for sure and some things are just so difficult to prove.....but this is my take on it based purely on experience.
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This thread was hijacked for a while. But I was reading it and liking what I'd seen. Actual debates about important topics without people getting emotional (aka panties in a bunch).....it's not an easy thing to do. Is there an "other" section of forums somewhere on the site, for those of us who are "one of those types of people" ?
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I'm going to stop commenting before I end up spitting out more incorrect info and confuse people further.
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Uncle Seth: are you sure you need to press the d pad to get the b to take effect and switch players? I haven't tried it much, but I thought it worked without that.
Tru: I doubt it works on SNES, it's a result of an oddity in the genesis code. It's almost like the weight bug, for controlled players, was intentional. It makes no sense.
My mistake. I don't think D-pad is needed. I'll edit. Maybe it's just something I do (weird habit ?).
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First off, being new to the forum (but not the game itself), I'd like to say that this forum has enhanced immeasurably my enjoyment of NHL '94, and this is one of my favorite places on the Internet. Well done, folks.
Having recently started using Winnipeg, I wanted to share a couple of observations.
Housley is, I think, more of a liability than an asset. Sure, he's fast and can keep up with Selanne, but man, he is *always* out of position, which is a huge pitfall when playing fast teams (Dallas, Vancouver) that can really generate and capitalize on breakaways. On top of that, to describe his shot as mediocre would be generous.
Bautin, I've found, stays in his zone and protects the goal quite well. With he and Numminen in the back, I can bench Borsato and bring in Zhamnov, whom I have found to be a fine counterpart to Selanne. Sure, Selanne is a bit too fast for him to always keep up with, but he is still able to contribute in terms of setting up some one-timers and, yes, shooting. His shot is average, but not garbage, and most teams seem to not pay so much attention to him; as a result, he usually winds up with a goal or two for me. I drag Housley out when I'm behind, desperate, and want a lot of offensive options, but that usually means bringing Borsato on to shore up the defense, and he offers little beyond not being fat.
Well said. It comes down to the type of game you personally prefer playing. It's all risk vs reward. If you put Housley in your lineup, you must skate it with him a lot, draw people in, set up plays. Otherwise you don't take advantage of his enormous skill-set. If you want a defensemen to usually be in position (feeling of reassurance), Phil is not the guy. Against an opponent who has fast skaters and moves the puck fast, you may often find yourself yelling at him(ex. "stay back"!, or "what the __ are you doing" ?) and giving up lots of odd-man rushes.
As for Zhamnov, he's a must in my book considering his great stickhandling, agility and passing.
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no, it's not confusing at all. I have trying to replicate it on the SNES version without any luck. every time the dude charges at the possessor and then tries to tripcheck him. I could only pull it off by pressing the switch-to-the-goalie button. so, it may be quite different on the Genesis, but what I don't understand is how you can tripcheck without switching players OR C/B away from the puck. it makes no sucking fence. how do you do one or the other by choice? what is the difference in the actions taken to achieve the disparate results?
edit: yeah, what Mac typed.
I have zero experience with SNES man, sorry.
CB is NOT a tripcheck, I think you misunderstood. It's a C-check, but modified so that at the point of contact, you are not controlling that player.
Interesting that you mention CB away from the puck, I recently started CB'ing guys who don't even have the puck, it's hilarious and a boatload of fun. You can CB anyone, they don't HAVE to have the puck but it works more successfully when they do. CB'ing someone who doesn't have the puck....they seem more resistant to it.
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How does it switch?
I thought the switch made you the closest guy to the puck and wouldn't that be the guy already c-checking?
On a side note.
Premium does not use c or c/b checks?
Is that correct?
If you make the switch right after boosting/launching, and aim with D-pad and press B, you will get control over a different player.
No he uses them, just sparingly and more wisely (than nut-jobs like me).
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so, hey... this doesn't ever just have the dude charge and then pokecheck? I mean, he's still the closest to the puck, right? so why would it switch off of him? if it always switches, how do you pokecheck? is B-checking somehow something else, too? it seems that way based on reading lots of posts. I'm missing something here.
B-check and pokecheck are the same thing, people usually use one term or the other. I could never get on board calling it a poke check because what it really is is a trip. Technically (in general in real hockey) a poke check means you poke the puck away with little to no body contact. Too bad trip-check never caught on as a term, as that's what a B-check (poke check) is in 94.
in regards to CB, I'm not sure if I can explain it properly, but I'll try. CB doesn't result in a B-check because you "switch off" controlling the guy you are using at the last second. It's basically a modification of the C-check. You launch at someone like you normally would with a C-check, but immediately after "launching" (pressing C), press the B button (to get control of a different player). Having a big C-launch/boost is important to the check. So there you are, with control of your new player....while the player you just had control of is following through with his speed-bursted C-check (despite no star on him).
Using a regular genesis controller, what you basically do is "let go" of the C-button by releasing the pressure on it (via your thumb) and sliding that thumb quickly to the B-button. For me personally, when I C-check (or CB) the middle of my thumb is where I apply pressure from. During this time my thumb is completely flat.If I decide to C-B a player, I release that pressure from my thumb (and the C button), my thumb joint bends as I use the tip of my thumb to make contact with the B-button. In order to do it my way, throughout the game, my entire thumb is often horizontal (facing 9 o'clock), covering both the B and C buttons.
Maybe this sounds confusing, sorry if that's the case. I know it's probably difficult to read and then visualize.
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looks like a time warp through the 70's & 80's. Faded pennants, wood everywhere, and lots of other nice vintage touches. Zamboni driver with the green shirt is notable, but that rotary phone takes the cake (even with the new cord attached). Lots of bobbleheads that are ready to fall the moment someone throws a controller. This did leave my ass wondering, where do I go? Showcase the seats Coach!
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Hahahahahahah (before vs after).
I have a hunch that my "range obsession" stems from my extremely aggressive style. I want to be able to nail a guy from a mile away! It's just so much fun, and SLIGHTLY addicting. CB'ing with heavy, agile, fast players is very heat-seeking missile-like.
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Having had Lindros in GDL, I can state he is very effective on the C/B if put in the middle of the ice.
The biggest reason is there is a lot of math to keep running in your mind.
Can I just C check the guy? (Is the guy I'm controlling 2 points lower in weight)
Is this guy easy to B check or will he just wiggle? (Is his stick handling above 4)
Can I C/B this guy? (Is the guy I'm controlling 2 points heavier in weight)
When you have Lindros, the answer is always F-NO, I can't C Check anyone in the league, and hell yes, I can C/B just about 99% of the guys in this league. So, he keeps the math simple while playing the game at the high speed it runs at.
His true weakness is his lousy stick handling and speed 3 that when you put him in the Center position to maximize his defense, tends to then kill your offense.
I drafted him in the 7th Round, but played him a lot because I just wanted to give it a try. I can say safely that while it's fun to TRY w/ Big E, as a whole, the slow bastard is not a good fit unless it's a Blitz league.
He still can't take a check, is too slow to fill the lane on the one timers and definitely does not get back for break aways!
But, I almost NEVER missed a C/B with him if that helps anyone regrade the Big Pig.
This game's complexity has skyrocketed because of C/B hasn't it? More MATH involved, thinking on the fly. I think I was trying to convey that his range to connect is less, you have to be closer to your opponent to CB with someone like Lindros. So if you're more passive, and wait for them to come close to you (venus fly trap method) you can still CB with Lindros effectively. However, compare that to a speedy, heavy agile skater like Tikkanen, who can harass you to no end and deliver CB from greater distance. Does that make sense? Also, since you are limited to close-range CB (with Lindros) your accuracy can be high because of that. However, if you compare a lighter but more agile and faster player like Tikkanen, at close range he will equally effective at CB as Lindros, even though there are slightly fewer players in the league (% wise) he can CB. Yet, with all that added speed and agility (along with being heavy enough), Tikk is a vastly superior CB'er as a whole.
In other words, weight is a major factor in CB, added speed expands the "kill zone territory"
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Just wanted to help you out here bud, when I say 4/3 skating for a guy like Lindros, I'm inputting the agility first and then the speed. So 4 agility and 3 speed is what Lindros has to work with and the rest of what your saying is spot on. He doesn't have the C-B check range of a guy like Tikkanen, but there are more guys that Lindros can do damage too.
There is also one more thing to consider with guys like Lindros and more so Kjell Samuelsson or Marty Mcsorely is that they can be so heavy it becomes a bit of overkill. Its overkill trying to nail Joe Sakic with Lindros because only an 8 weight rating is needed to CB Sakic. At 12 weight Lindros doesn't have anywhere near the mobility of a 9 weight Brind'Amour despite sharing the same exact skating skills. It is very important to consider just how much versatility should be sacrificed for a little extra physical play.
This is my 2nd consecutive screw up in regards to a player's agility/speed rating in the past hour haha! But I did perceive your statement (about Lindros) as speed 4, agility 3, and I was wrong. I don't use Lindros ever, and I guess it's because of the 3 speed (MIXED with that atrocious 12 weight) that makes it feel like he's such a crappy skater and C-B throwing candidate.
We're on the same page here. I think I understand your overkill idea and what you mean. In other words, much better off using a more skilled skater (regardless of weight) to defend against a Sakic type than a guy like McSorely who's may be viewed as a great C/B defenseman, when in reality he's horrible b/c he can hardly move with that 3 agil, 3 speed, 14 weight. To get any value from such crappy skaters defensively, you have to be much more conservative and not chase. They're so boat-anchor-like that they stay in the same general area of the defensive zone, just clogging up prime space, and in a sense, staying in position. For some people, these types of skating attributes are reassuring. Ask Depch, he loves Garth Butcher and that is why. He's just there when you need him and perfect for Depch's style of play. An old school meat and potatoes defenseman you can count on to be in position. I'd imagine someone like Housley is the last person someone of Depch's style would want on D for their team.
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Gilmour has 5/4 skating, so 5 agility and 4 speed. Walking around C and C/B checks puts you in the best positions to score. It's fine to get hit by body checks every now and then. If you go look at the Blitz 10 stats, I get checked way more than anyone else but I have the best GFA by a pretty solid margin. I also have a pretty good GAA despite never using the C or C/B check. In Blitz 09 I was able to win with a super light team averaging about 0.15 body checks a game.
Wow, big error on my part in mixing that up. I should have done my research here on him. Maybe it's just the feel of him (to me) that made me assume that was the case.
However, I don't think getting checked is a good thing. Having a potent offensive skills, great team D and goalie control have much more to do with GF-GA than # of times being checked. As a whole for most people, turning the puck over and losing possession is not beneficial. If someone isn't checked, they'll have more possession time.
Yes, walking around C and C/B checks most definitely puts you in an incredible position to capitalize. But it's much easier said than done for the vast majority of people. You've adapted to being a successful C-B evader. Having an agile skater helps A LOT obviously, as does watching the opposing defenseman and waiting for him to commit first.
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I just wanted to provide a lil more info on C-B after reading A.J.'s revision on PHI in the Building Lines arena. On paper, he is correct that it looks like Lindros is a C-B checking monster because of his heavy weight. However, his 3 SPEED makes it more difficult to throw C-B check, unless his opponent is up next to him. Reason being, is that his lower SPEED not only limits his ability to launch at the player he wants to hit. And SPEED is important in being able to lay a guy out with C-B, because it gives you a bigger boost, and in effect expanding the range at which you can throw the hit. Lindros has a shorter "range" to throw this hit because of his 3 SPEED, he runs out of steam at the end of it and doesn't get a big boost in the beginning. So while someone like Lindros can technically be "equipped" to hit a large amount of players (due to that heavy weight), his low SPEED rating hurts a lot. Yes, he can still do it, he has to be very close to the guy to do it. Compare that to someone lighter like a Bob Carpenter (who is 7 weight) but 4 SPEED and you get a much more effective C-B checker (when you know are aware of who you're trying to hit). With that added SPEED, he can boost further/from further away and quicker. Since he's not a complete slug weight-wise he can track people (chase). No one chases with Lindros with any success.
In the end, being responsible, knowing your opponent, the attributes of the 2 skaters involved, and the situations that are best (or worst) for C-B is key. Not going overboard with it (like me haha) is important. Like any strategy, there are risks and rewards.
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Here's t link to the thread C-B that was originally created by Premium.
http://forum.nhl94.com/index.php/topic/16081-insider-weight-knowledge-weight-bug/
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I think we need to establish a C-B discussion thread. I think there was one initially but I can't seem to find it. It's such a situational maneuver (what player you're using, who has the puck that you're trying to attack, who the coach is you're playing, the distance between the players. It's way more than weight.)
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I think Gilmour benefits. Before players were forced to B-check him, now they will try and C/B check. For someone with 5/4 skating like Gilmour, it is 50x easier to get around a C or C/B check than it is for a B-check.
Also, when everyone is so focused on C/B checking they end up overusing the technique and just using the C/B at everything. I see this garbage all the time.
Yes, overdoing it can be toxic. But most people don't engage in that. As far as I know, there's only one coach who goes overboard and gets himself into trouble because of it (now who could that be??). As for Gilmour though, I still see him a sitting duck these days for C-B when he's far enough away, not the best guy to be trying to dodge C-B with because of having the more speed than agility syndrome. However, that same syndrome makes him very easy to B-check as well. The decision is situational.
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Where's the original C-B thread? I want to add some more info and can't seem to find it.
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In my opinion, C-B is a lethal tool in the arsenal, when used wisely. It definitely warrants a revision of the building of lines, so smart of A.J. to realize that. Although it won't score you goals as Skeletor stated, C-B does have notable fore-checking value which can cause quick changes of possession and a little more paranoia. Against a solid C-B utilizing type of coach, you'll have to move the puck quicker and think on your feet more. C-B levels the playing field so that no one is bulletproof carrying the puck. Gone are the days when dudes like Svoboda wouldn't have to worry about a fatso trailing him on a puck pursuit.
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^While I'm not a big Teemu fan, I do NOT like going up against him. Agreed, he can be lethal.
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Phenomenal season for you too Raphie. Are you going to re-sign BB (Bald Bellows) or let him walk?
Should be a wild final. Frey's team doesn't look so hot on paper, but man can that speed be a force to contain, solid drafting on his part, and best GC control in league. Up against "Premium" Plavix and his masterful use of # 99, who turns even that slug Kevin Stevens into a formidable scoring threat.
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Hey bud, not trying to be Mr. Negative but those new genesis style controllers you find all over Ebay & Amazon are complete s**t! Many people (including myself) can attest that they break veeeeeeeeery easily. I had 3 break in a week. No kidding. Then I was advised by people here to seek out a used authentic genesis controller. I did, and it's been smooth sailing ever since. The authentic genesis controllers are incredibly durable, even 20+ years old.
Difficulty Accepting a Pass
in SNES Dynasty General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Uncle Seth
There are going to be a lot of responses to this thread, such a mysterious game this 94 is. What Depch said is very noticeable....fast passes(in the short range) being more susceptible to "back of the skate syndrome".
Please keep in mind, my long rant is opinion. I could be completely wrong on the reasons these things happen. I haven't watched any of those vids yet, will do so later, I'm out the door right now.