aqualizard

Ok, thanks for your thoughts, guys. And even though I am offering some criticism, do not think I don't appreciate all that Raph and Brutus do. They both go well beyond the call of duty, and I appreciate that. Really. What I am saying is like Smozoma: I am sticking around. But others might not, and possibly have not. I think it benefits the community to nurture the weak and the newbs. And I think strong measures should be put in place to ensure that. But I get that to what extent this happens, if it happens at all, is a "philosophical difference". Not huge deal, just wanted to share my thoughts -- and (what I think is) a fair proposal -- on the matter.

Ok, I hate to be a whiner, but here goes. These random drafts in Classic and GDL are not fair. Even moreso if (in the case of Classic) there are 16 teams (like "B"), which means teams like Hartford will be facing Chi and Det! I have been in 2 GDLs, and now my 2nd Classic. Because of randomness, I am getting crappy teams and facing guys much better than me, who have guys like Roenick and Yzerman. In GDL I drafted 23rd, finished dead last, and then drafted 22nd. In Classic I drafted 7th or 8th, finished last or near last, and am now drafting 15th (2nd from last)? In the future, here is how I think it should be done: Anyone with less than 10 wins drafts in reverse order of finishing. More than 9 wins means you are in the random pool with everyone else. But at least this way the dudes really hemorrhaging -- like me, and others that have now disappeared! -- would have a shot? Hate writing this whiny message, but the current system just doesn't seem like good sportsmanship.

Exactly! The dude has got to be one of the all time greatest coders!! Now we just have to get him to redo this masterpiece in a modern language and make the code public domain! (Let's kickstart it!)

Nope. Jim Simmons did the Madden engine -- and all programming -- too! Then he modified it for hockey. Knox and London and Scott Orr (and others I am sure) were involved in some way, but all of the code was Jim Simmons. I am sure all of this and a lot more is going to be covered in the documentary Mikey is making!

Just in case someone else googles and finds this, this information is not correct. Michael Knox and Troy London were involved, but the programming of the engine (and everytihng else) was done by Jim Simmons. When I asked the question I did not know that, and in fact this thread threw me off the trail. But in fact the answer was easy to come by: the sole developer listed on the early EA hockey games (up until NHL'94) was Simmons. As noted, for '94 Mark Lesser took everything over.

A comment Brutus made in another thread got me thinking: "What is the biggest difference between an A player and a B player"? My guess, which Brutus mentioned, is goaltending. Mastering goaltending is probably the best way to go from being a B player to becoming an A player. Do you agree? Another big difference is capitalizing on your scoring chances, especially one on one against the goalie. I am definitely a B player (lower end, even) but sometimes I feel like I have just as many scoring chances as my opponent, but they score on most of theirs and I miss on most of mine. (On rethink, this could actually be "they are better at goalie control" again! They save my dekes and shots, while my goalie control on them is not unlike Swiss cheese.) What do you think the biggest or some of the biggest differences between As and Bs are?

So what (approximately) do you guys think the CB rule: You can crush anyone up to 2 points above your own weight, or below your own weight, or something else? I kind of feel like guys with 11 weight can crush anyone, but I am not very good at CB (so what do I know?), and it is probably rare for an 11 to check an 11 or greater, so I probably rarely if ever see it (so have no basis to support my gut feeling)? One thing seems like a consensus: CB checkers are better at leveling victims than C-checkers, right? (Raph said something like that earlier in this thread, and others, I think.)

I edited Plabax's "rules" for clarity. I understand 1 and 2, but for CB checks, I would like some clarity. What is the "rule" for a successful CB check? And really, don't they make checks work the way they are supposed to? That is, the "CB" corrects (or rather circumvents) the flaw in the code? So if you CB checked with every player, the "real" and intended checking effects would come into play. JR and Gretzky, being light, would suck, and heavy guys like Bourque and Hatcher will crush people? All (or most) people, but especially they would crush light guys like JR and Gretzky? So what is the CB rule: You can crush anyone up to 2 points above your own weight, or below your own weight, or something else?

Yes, Raph has sometimes mentioned that Kgman is elite, but doesn't do pass shots (or possibly CB either)... but... I would guess he would be slightly better if he did do these things! (But it could be argued in doing so, he would tweak the solid game he has in a bad direction, and his overall skill would stay the same or get worse, but I don't personally think so. If he did the pass shots and CB only where appropriate -- like Raph -- I think it would make his strong game even stronger.)

To be clear, I am saying that Raph VERSUS Plabax means a lower % of successful pass shot goals. If Raph played someone worse than Plabax, he may well have a higher % of pass shot goals. Do we agree on this, or you feel the opposite?

That 13% is also skewed. There is a serious flaw in the sample set: these two guys got to the finals, after all. They were the best or close to the best of the lot. Undoubtedly, their high skill level canceled out the prevalence of pass shots on one another. I bet there are times when either one of them scores a much higher % of their goals via the pass shot, even at the A level, against weaker opponents. If they detect a weakness (whether pass shot defense or one timers or whatever) they will exploit it. Of course against some B level players, this would be even more so.

Skip got some games in! 8 2 MTL 3 2 NY 1 1 4 5 NY

Wow, Raph, I really appreciate that you are both an elite player, and so willing to share your knowledge! Some of your posts -- like this one! -- are truly magazine quality write-ups! Two thumbs way up to this post and to you.

Similar to Tex. M-F 9pm -11pm Weekends kind of random (but open to scheduling) Monday's (I usually am off work) noon-4pm

Thanks for the reply! I have never noticed the long and short stick thing, but I will take a closer look and even do a screen cap or two. Is it visible on everyone at all times, or only the puck carrier, or just during dekes or shots or what and when? Also, it springs to mind that if there is a visible stick size difference, maybe it is really different player sizes altogether? ANd that is reflected in a stat: weight. Maybe the bigger sticks are the bigger players? Can you give me some names of bigger stick players? (Or the opposite?)

Wow, Raph, great job! Truly way above and beyond the call of duty! Love the player cards especially!

Hey Raph, played some exis last night and saw my D were reversed. I want it the way it is above, with Iafrate on right. (If it is too late no biggie.) Thanks!

Ok TK, I checked it out myslef. I used Buffalo, and I was able to spin pretty smooth with Mogilny, Hawerchuk and Lafontaine. I could do it clockwise and counter-clockwise, though one of the two was easier. (Can't remember which.) Now, THIS DOES NOT DISPROVE THE THEORY! You mentioned a "quick buttery smooth spinorama", and possibly if you saw mine you would say they are neither quick nor buttery. Maybe even a tad jerky. So I may be held back by my own skill limitations here... so... You don't have any video of an example of these spins by chance, or know where one is, do you? Thanks either way. This case is not closed!

Raph, after the impact you had with your last GDL team's stock rising, you may well be writing the exact order of the next draft. (But it will be great to see your thoughts, and I am intrigued JR is not #1? I wish we could see your Top 20 from 5 years ago because I bet he was #1 back then!)

Seth, please do share the long response! It would be awesome. I don't want to bash, honest. (Hell, you are a respected vet and I am a green newb, not my place to bash.) I would love to be convinced. I don't even know what you are referring to, Myth #1 or Myth #2 or both? But please share! I will say, it is possible that sticks are longer and shorter, and reflected in a stat that the Extraction Tool misses, I just do not think so. And the spinning thing may be true, too. I am going to use Tom K's post above to see for myself!

Thanks for the info TK, I will take a look! Appreciate the details.

Er, I was kidding about TK giving his approval. And the red phone bit, too. (But maybe you are kidding too and the joke is on me. )

Trevor Linden on the block!! Solid shooter and possessor of extra long stick!

Not true at all. I actually have a red phone that acts as a "TK Hotline" -- live at all times -- that puts me in constant communication with the man. And yes, on his advice I swapped Savard for Sandstrom, based on long and short stick ratios, or something. (And btw I got Hatcher in the deal, and gave up a D-man I wasn't really using. )

This thread hasn't got the traction I had hoped, so I will weigh in earlier than I wanted, with my own thoughts. I do not believe in long and short sticks, or any other "hidden" attributes. My guess is, what you get when you export a ROM using the "NHL Hockey Roster Tool" is all the stats that exist, and I don't see any "Stick Length" so think it highly unlikely. As for spinning tighter with righties, I do not believe that either. (Though I would like to see the frame by fame analysis.) If it appears that way, I think it is an optical illusion based on how we perceive spinning with sticks on different sides, and not a real phenomenon. HOWEVER, it does make sense that a deke would be more successful on one side (righties, I guess) because most goalies are better at making stops on one side (since most goalies are righthanded, and hold their gloves with left hand and stick and blocker with right). So by virtue of most goalies sharing the same "weak side", a righty shooter may have a *relative* advantage. (Though not an *inherent* advantage in right being better than left; they are the same.)