c4outlaws

HELP with hacking! Penalty minutes and extra attacker

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Here are a few SNES hacks I need help with. First, does anyone know how to edit the length of a penalty? I would like to change the "2 minutes" to only 1 minute. Second, this question has been posted before but had trouble locating in the forum. I dont think its been answered yet. Is it possible to play with both the extra attacker and goalie on the ice the whole game? I am not a good hacker at all. I tried a hex editor and I have no clue where extra attacker code is. Can anyone help with these hacks? Thanks

Edited by c4outlaws

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way be to helpful, dick. are you Zalex and Fredey's child?

changing the penalties has to be pretty easy, as it was one of the first few real hacks I applied to a ROM. I wish I could remember exactly how it went, but I'm pretty sure it was VERY easy. I suggest opening my ROM and a regular one (in hex editors, obviously) and comparing the penalty text areas. search for "holding" to find the penalty stuff. then look for something like "hooking..].p.2.." and see that mine has "hooking..].p.2.." as well. then see that the regular one has the second roughing as "roughing..].p.2.." and mine has "injuring..].p.5.." or something like that. you'd be changing them all to 1. when I went back to see how I did this, it wasn't quite this obvious, but it can't be too hard. when you get it done, post in the ROM mapping thread, please. good luck with this. it is doable.

the rover, though... I'm no help.

Edited by trudatman

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Where can I get one of your ROMs with penalty minutes edited? I will take a look at it.

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here, there, not quite everywhere.

SNES ROMs section, signature, http://ninetyflow.blogspot.com should have it for you.

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probably not too helpful, but two minutes is 120 seconds, which is '78' in the number part of a hex editor, or 'N' in the text part. Try searching for '7800' in the hex section (not the text section). Change it to '3C00' (60 = 3C hex) and hopefully that changes one of the penalties.. must be a pain to test, though

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it was WAY easier than that. it was one of the first hacks I did, before I (sort of) knew what I was doing.

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That's odd, because seeing a '2' in the text side is actually the number value 50. Did it actually change the amount of time on the clock, or just the description of the time?

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Use NOSE! O wait.. lololo0l0l0

Don't be lame :P

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I remember it being EXTREMELY simple, like I saw a bunch of twos and changed one to a five. I went back and tried to replicate what I did and I couldn't figure it out, but I didn't try too hard (as I don't need to make any further changes to this aspect of my ROM), so I think somebody who put more than a passing effort into it could get it by comparing my ROM(s) to the original. I think I did it first on Tru Scrubs (in 2010, I guess) and then then every ROM I've made since has just been a modification of that one.

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i see what trudat did. 0204 is the 2 min penalty. 0528 is 5 min penalty. obvious that the 02 and 05 refer to penalty length. but not sure what the 04 and 28 have to do with it. when I change the first part to 01 for a 1 min penalty, it doesnt work. it shows 1 min penalty but the game goes whacky. i have been trying to change the second set of numbers. so far i have tried 0100 up to 011F. going to take a while to figure out

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what kind of wacky does the game "go" with the one-minute penalty call? with the five, there is a long delay where everybody does their thing and the injured player is still, prone, cold on the ice. everything else is normal. please play around with this and explain the results. any videos or pictures you can post would be helpful, too. showing the hex data that is being changed would be great.

oh, and if you could demonstrate exactly what it was that I did to get the fivers, that would be nice.

Edited by trudatman

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somebody was browsing this thread and I backtraced the link they clicked to my ROM page. so, now I am bumping this to see if anybody did any more work in this line of investigation. questions from the previous post still stand.

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I've been experimenting in this and I don't think it's possible to change penalty minutes to 1 min. It really goes wacky after that - graphical glitches, weird behaviour and the game just stops (not freezes) and does not do anything. There is no delay like in trudatman's rom, the game simply refuses to go on, ref never drops the puck again.

But it works perfectly with 3, 4, 5 or 6 minutes (I have not tried it with 7 mins or more) and even works perfectly with 0 minutes which can be used very effectively with one of NHL 94 SNES bugs - interference (it is not considered as a bug by NHL 94 community I think but for me it is a huge bug and it pi..ed me off many times, now it's history).

First, it is not needed to change the second value c4outlaws is referring to (04, 28). Quite the contrary, it should not be changed because changed values cause the ~10 seconds delay in trudatman's rom. The only value that has something to do with the amount of time is the first value (02 04, 02 28, 02 0A etc).

I'll explain in example.

There is this line in HexEd:

FF FE 02 04 0E 00 Interference

When I changed 02 to 00, interference is called but no player will take a penalty. The ref blows the whistle and the game continue with a face off in the neutral zone.

When 04 is changed to 28 (like trudatman did), there is delay between the whistle blow and a face off (no matter if the first vaule is changed from 02 to 00/04/05 or unchanged).

Btw, trudatman, 5 mins penalty does not end when the goal is scored in the real hockey (at least here in Europe according to IIHF rules), maybe you should change it to 4 mins (2+2), this penalty ends when the goal is scored. Your rom would be more realistic then as the penalty always ends in NHL 94 after the goal is scored. It's your rom, do whatever you want to, this is just a suggestion, no mentoring intended ;-)

As I already mentioned, the game works with no problem when the first value is changed to 03, 04, 05 or 06 and probably will work with higher values. Needed to say I was altering and testing only interference and both roughing but there is probably no reason to think the game would behave differently with other penalties (slashing, tripping etc) changed.

I was really happy when found that the game worked perfectly with zero penalty minutes for interference, I implemented it immediately. Unfortunately there is a small graphical glitch in the referee graphics in the top left corner but it lasts only for a second and doesnt not influent the game at all. Try and you will see what I am talking about. I definitely recommend this to every SNES player, no more undeliberate interference now. I just rewrote Interference to NetDisplaced (can't be longer) to make it more realistic. Would be perfect to turn interference off completely but afaik it is not possible or noone knows how to do it but this 02-->00 solution is imo pretty good.

There are two roughing penalties in the game, one is for roughing with no injury and one for roughing with causing an injury to an opponent's player.

In hex editor (bolded where different):

FF FE 02 0A 0A 00 Roughing = roughing with an injury (change 02 to 03/04/05 etc if you want more penalty minutes)

FF FE 02 04 0A 00 Rouging = classic roughing

Edited by DominikJagr

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great work and analysis. thank you very much for your help!

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You're welcome! Without this forum I would be lost and have no idea how to change anything so it's me who is grateful.

If you are going to test the interference thing let me know please what is your opinion about it.

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I'm not sure I will, but I would very much like it if you gave some thought to improving my ROM updates. it would be nice if you'd keep experimenting with what's possible with the game and then come up with a list of what you can/would do.

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Anyone figure how to have the extra attacker on the ice the whole time, including having the goalie on ice too? Basically 7on7.

Another question is about "icing". Anyway to disable it?

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I'm not sure I will, but I would very much like it if you gave some thought to improving my ROM updates. it would be nice if you'd keep experimenting with what's possible with the game and then come up with a list of what you can/would do.

This weekend I am going to experiment with values behind the players names to find out how to change the portraits and the same I am going to do with values behind the clubs names. But I have completely no idea with more difficult stuff. What I am doing is just rewriting the values near the text and testing the behaviour of the game. I would like to find the way how to disable or at least swap the ice logos because I want to make many ROM updates - Olympic games, World Championships, Canada Cups/World Cups.

That's all I can do, without help from guys who understand this hex stuff (smozoma and few others) I am completely lost like anyone else here :(

Would be awesome if someone finds the way how to decompress/compress the graphics in the ROM. Logos, portraits and the ice rink are compressed and no changes can be made. Just imagine playing the Olympic games ROM with olympic symbols on the ice B) Or with Colorado/Phoenix/Carolina/Nashville/Atlanta/Minnesota/Columbus logos. Yummy.

I already tried your ROM, I think it was 2012-1013 edition and it gave me inspiration in editing graphics. I do not like the players indicators either. In my roms I plan to keep at least two (for player 2 and player 4 for instance) for people who like them or people who want to play 2 humans vs 2 humans matches, indicators are needed to avoid complete mess. And want to keep numbers/positions completely.

The only thing I would change in your rom is already mentioned 5 mins penalty (to 4 mins) by rewriting 05 to 04 and the delay by rewriting 28 back to 0A.

Anyone figure how to have the extra attacker on the ice the whole time, including having the goalie on ice too? Basically 7on7.

Another question is about "icing". Anyway to disable it?

I would like to know this too to disable interference completely but have no idea how to do that.

I rewrited all the values which can be associated with interference (in HexEd: ALL THE VALUES HERE Interference ALL THE VALUES HERE) to 00 to see what happened and the refs still called the interference. The game went crazy, glitches etc, but this showed the penalties situations (when to call interference, what has to happen in the game) themselves are stored somewhere else in the ROM. The values I was experimenting with are the values telling the game what to do when the interference is already called. For disabling anything we have to know what values are associated with penalties, icings, off sides. That is something beyond my skills, I do not understand this 08 AC BE 00 nonsense at all :D

Edited by DominikJagr

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....I would change in your rom....5 mins penalty (to 4 mins) by rewriting 05 to 04 and the delay by rewriting 28 back to 0A....

thank you. please know that I am seriously considering those changes. the first is more likely than the latter, but I very much appreciate your intelligent and specific feedback. please always offer suggestions/critiques/opnions/comments/etc. the SNES side needs more heroes, as there aren't enough people producing ROMs nor showing informed interest is tweaking them. if you are you learn about expansion team roster expansion (there is some information in the mapping thread), please be willing to join forces with me to make future updates. I would gladly help with any guidance or possibly work to help you with other projects if you ask.

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Thank you for your kind words.

I am going to post another post in statto's editor thread, you will like some info there I think. I do this to understand the game as much as possible, I do not want to be bothered by anything unexpected when my roms will be finished.

Btw, we NHL94ers are very lucky even we cant edit the game like Genesis people can. When trying to edit Jimmy Connors Pro Tennis Tour (imo the best tennis game ever) I found it was completely compressed, there were no players names, no tournament names, nothing to edit, just some graphics. Some SNES games are hard nuts to crack.

With roster expansion you mean more players on the team? Rosters can be expanded by naming players in this format: J. Jagr, B. Ranford. Not using full first name. The game crashes when you use only players surname, but with initials it works perfectly in the main menu, in all the game-menus, in the game itself (everything already tested). You get some extra bytes and you can add more players.

I will use this in my roms because it is faster to type, historical rosters are available usually with initials and not full names, surnames will be always full no matter how long the both names are (Vanbiesbrouck knows what I am talking about) and there are more free bytes available for adding more players then.

I found you and Stefan on romhacking.net (I am not a member there yet), if the problem with graphics/logo in NHL94 wont be solved here, I want to offer money there to anyone who makes decruncher/cruncher of NHL 94 graphics. If there are more SNES NHL 94 enthusiasts here who are willing to pay we can motivate someone so much he will make it for us. Let's say there are eight people who are willing to pay 70 USD each, its 560 USD, thats not bad for a weekend work. I dont think it will take more days for experienced coder who is familiar with SNES to decrunch the graphics. Decrunchers are usually based on the same or very similar routine, its usually only a question of finding it. Would like to know what other SNESers think about this.

Edit: Not only graphics decruncher would come handy but decruncher of the rest too. We would get the code and rewriting the game's behaviour would be possible. I do not know what SNES language look like but it should be basically the same like all programming languages. And much more things in the game might be changed with such decruncher. Repeated OT in regular seasons game until the goal is scored, turning off icing, interference and many more.

Edited by DominikJagr

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I'd put in $50 or so to get somebody to put in the serious work it'd take to get us significantly further than we are now.

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I have been too busy lately. I hope I will have more time upcoming week for ROM investigation :-)

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