CoachMac

Official Summer Rom

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55 minutes ago, Brutus said:

SO, in OPTION 5, it states ALL attributes will either be HOT or COLD.

FOR me, it surely seemed that the number of times a guy is COLD and more specifically WAY COLD seemed to be much greater than any other combo. 

That's why I'd rather have it where each rating is randomly plus or minus 8 points, because then you can still find some use for a partially cold player.

 

Just my take on it.  Maybe there could be an easy fix where speed/agility are tied together, Shot Power/Shot Accuracy tied together and Stick Handling/Passing tied together, but not all of them, so if a player is COLD shot, he might have a HOT shot!

 

That'd be way more fun than all cold or all hot, imo.  BUT, I can't code crap.

I don't think you get guys "WAY COLD" or "WAY HOT" in GDL or Summer League though. I'm pretty sure the home/away advantages don't allow that to happen.

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3 hours ago, Premium said:

(1) I disagree. This will mess up the skating because agility and speed are two different stats. You probably want those two stats to be in sync with each other.

(2) Also, the hot/cold seems to depend on what the home/away advantages are. I think the advantages have to be set to average (like in GDL), and you will almost never see anyone extremely hot or cold.

 

1. I agree with you, the mismatched attributes mess up the player personalities a bit. I like the concept, but the skating felt whack, players didn't feel like themselves.

2. Hot/cold and home/away are applied separately/additively. The random hot/cold values are unrelated to home/away. (Unless I'm forgetting something like it having a limit to how far hot/cold a particular attribute can go due to adding the values, but it really doesn't ring a bell)

 

3 hours ago, CoachMac said:

Home Advantage can be from 0 to 5.

Strong Home 2 vs Brutal Road 3 = 5 Home advantage

Strong Home 2 vs Strong Road 0 = 2 Home advantage

Weak Home 0 vs  Brutal road 3 = 3 Home Advantage

Weak Home 0 vs Strong Road 0 = 0 Home advantage Personally hate it, but the best setting to eliminate advantages.

This is a good way to think of it, though it's not the whole picture.

If you think about my home/away records analysis, the teams like Detroit (weak home, strong away) had a nullified TOTAL home/away record. Which could only happen if in some games they actually had a road advantage to balance out the record. So when DET faces a team with weak home advantage, DET must actually have an advantage of some sort.

Unfortunately I've never been able to get around to rediscovering the exact effects. Not all player attributes are affected, and I think some are affected purely by the home or away value. Same with PP/PK.

It might be better to think of the sum as starting at -1. So Weak Home 0 + Strong Road 0 - 1 = -1, a slight road advantage.

 

2 hours ago, Brutus said:

(1) SO, in OPTION 5, it states ALL attributes will either be HOT or COLD.

(2) FOR me, it surely seemed that the number of times a guy is COLD and more specifically WAY COLD seemed to be much greater than any other combo. 

That's why I'd rather have it where each rating is randomly plus or minus 8 points, because then you can still find some use for a partially cold player.

 

(4) Just my take on it.  Maybe there could be an easy fix where speed/agility are tied together, Shot Power/Shot Accuracy tied together and Stick Handling/Passing tied together, but not all of them, so if a player is COLD shot, he might have a HOT shot!

 

That'd be way more fun than all cold or all hot, imo.  BUT, I can't code crap.

1. Hot or cold to some degree, equally. All attributes will be equally affected by hot/cold (the values of which can be -0.6, -0.4, -0.2, 0.0, +0.2, +0.4)

2. I didn't check, but I believe the hot/cold values to be evenly distributed in the above range. So thinking that they are cold more than they are hot, I believe to be a mental effect (our brains typically remember the bad more than the good... yaayyyy brains), or an effect that can only be felt after playing static (option 2) ROMs a lot.

If you take an average of a player's hot/cold over lots of games, he should on average be -0.1. So in a way a '0.0' hot/cold is actually a little bit hot (he's better than on average), so with the static ROM (option 2), the players are always a little bit hot compared to their normal average skill.

4. It wouldn't be a simple fix unfortunately. It works on the lists of player attributes and random numbers, so I'd have to add extra code to handle 1 particular number differently, which isn't straight-forward compared to telling to ignore the random numbers, or to use the correct list of  random numbers (the original game uses one set of random numbers for the edit lines and another for the actual values.. so i just told it to use the same numbers for both, fixing the bug)

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With the Detroit example above... I would guess that if all the teams are set to 0/0, a league would show a slight road advantage in the records.

Has that been observed? Is there a league that used 0/0 that's recorded on nhl94online.com?

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Ok I think I see what premium might be saying about home/away affecting hot/cold... In that if all the teams are using 0/0, it's going to feel like guys are cold compared to the original Rom or blitz because the average bonuses are low.

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52 minutes ago, smozoma said:

With the Detroit example above... I would guess that if all the teams are set to 0/0, a league would show a slight road advantage in the records.

Has that been observed? Is there a league that used 0/0 that's recorded on nhl94online.com?

All 3 PRL were set this way and I believe it was about 50/50 or slight Home advantage.

I calculated it at one point but never posted.

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1 hour ago, smozoma said:

Ok I think I see what premium might be saying about home/away affecting hot/cold... In that if all the teams are using 0/0, it's going to feel like guys are cold compared to the original Rom or blitz because the average bonuses are low.

Look at the difference between hot/cold in GDL and Blitz. In GDL, the players seem to always be consistent, but in Blitz there is a clear difference in the stats.

In Blitz, players with 4 stickhandle toddle when HOT, but this is not the case in GDL. I think this has to do with the home/away advantages because it happens with the strong advantaged teams in Classic.

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11 hours ago, Premium said:

Look at the difference between hot/cold in GDL and Blitz. In GDL, the players seem to always be consistent, but in Blitz there is a clear difference in the stats.

In Blitz, players with 4 stickhandle toddle when HOT, but this is not the case in GDL. I think this has to do with the home/away advantages because it happens with the strong advantaged teams in Classic.

Oh yeah, I get what you're saying now. Yes, home/away definitely affects that. It's in addition to the usual hot/cold. (I thought you were saying it affected what the hold/cold could be.. but they are just added together)

My notes say "StH + pp/pk + home". I think means a player's stick-handling is affected by the team's PP value in relation to the other team's PK (when on the PP), and the Home advantage is also added on for the home players (no home/away value is added for the away players).

Here are my notes:

Quote

weight*8
agility*5 + bonus
speed*5 + bonus
(30 - (OfA*5 + bonus + pk/pp + home/away)/2) /2
(30 - (DfA*5 + bonus + home/away)/2) /2
ShP
ShA + pp/pk + home
Pas + PP + home
sweater number
Rgh + 2*away
StH + pp/pk + home
End
agg

fight
checking modifier (5*chk + random bonus[-3,2])
handedness

Unfortunately I don't fully understand the notes.

I'm pretty sure "bonus" is the usual hot/cold value, and that I just didn't bother to record it for the values from ShP to Fight because it was added to all of them. I probably noted the checking one first, which is why it's so detailed.

And I don't know what the slash notation means exactly (for example pp/pk), I think it means pp relative to pk, for a penalty killer... on the other hand, for "Rgh +2*away" I don't think teams with bad Road values are extra rough... so I'm having a tough time understanding these notes from 10 years ago....

OfA and DfA are a bit whacky. It was supposed to come out in the movie but didn't.. that the awareness values basically describe a radius of awareness... kind of like how far the players can see when on offense and when on defense...

(also the values of ShP, ShA etc should also have a *5)

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13 hours ago, smozoma said:

With the Detroit example above... I would guess that if all the teams are set to 0/0, a league would show a slight road advantage in the records.

Has that been observed? Is there a league that used 0/0 that's recorded on nhl94online.com?

Premium Retro League used this setting.

Season 1 Regular Season Home 28-21-11
Season 1 Playoffs Home 12--10
Season 2 Regular Season Home 43-35-12
Season 2 Playoffs Home 21-16
Season 3 Regular Season Home 39-36-9
Season 3 Playoffs Home 15-18

Overall Home Record 158-136-76

15 hours ago, smozoma said:

This is a good way to think of it, though it's not the whole picture.

If you think about my home/away records analysis, the teams like Detroit (weak home, strong away) had a nullified TOTAL home/away record. Which could only happen if in some games they actually had a road advantage to balance out the record. So when DET faces a team with weak home advantage, DET must actually have an advantage of some sort.

Unfortunately I've never been able to get around to rediscovering the exact effects. Not all player attributes are affected, and I think some are affected purely by the home or away value. Same with PP/PK.

It might be better to think of the sum as starting at -1. So Weak Home 0 + Strong Road 0 - 1 = -1, a slight road advantage.

 

Detroit is really talented that is the road advantage.
So when Detroit Strong Road (0) plays a team with Weak Home (0) there is no advantage and detroit is probably way more talented.
Even against a Strong Home team Detroit will at worst give up a +2 on the road.
The Ducks are guaranteed to give up at least a 3 and maybe a 5, plus they suck.
I don't see how mathematically that setting is not the whole picture, but you probably got better math grades than me.

15 hours ago, smozoma said:

2. I didn't check, but I believe the hot/cold values to be evenly distributed in the above range. So thinking that they are cold more than they are hot, I believe to be a mental effect (our brains typically remember the bad more than the good... yaayyyy brains), or an effect that can only be felt after playing static (option 2) ROMs a lot.

 

YES!:big_smile:

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On 5/17/2018 at 12:39 PM, CoachMac said:

Premium Retro League used this setting.

Season 1 Regular Season Home 28-21-11
Season 1 Playoffs Home 12--10
Season 2 Regular Season Home 43-35-12
Season 2 Playoffs Home 21-16
Season 3 Regular Season Home 39-36-9
Season 3 Playoffs Home 15-18

Overall Home Record 158-136-76

Detroit is really talented that is the road advantage.
So when Detroit Strong Road (0) plays a team with Weak Home (0) there is no advantage and detroit is probably way more talented.
Even against a Strong Home team Detroit will at worst give up a +2 on the road.
The Ducks are guaranteed to give up at least a 3 and maybe a 5, plus they suck.
I don't see how mathematically that setting is not the whole picture, but you probably got better math grades than me.

YES!:big_smile:

Hmm... You know what, looking at my notes posted above, it looks like the only away bonus is on Roughness, which I don't think has much (if any) effect on the game. So yeah DET probably does have basically no advantage on the road, so the 0-5 thing must be right!

Surprising that there's still a slight home advantage seen in the Premium Retro league team records. 

(as for DET's talent, that didn't factor into my analysis, since I compared the home and away records of teams to themselves, so the skill levels of the teams is factored out for the most part... except in my small combined table,  I may have messed that up by combining all the records)

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